Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 2

[eddeva]

I agree. I keep thinking that maybe Caylee was still in the car. Does anyone know if the outside bag was the laudrey bag or was it a trash bag. The reason I am asking it because I could see this happening.

Dad and tow guy open the truck expecting to see a dead body but see the real trash bag. They assume that was the source of the smell and through it over the fence, however, caylee was actually triple bagged in the laudrey bag. GA drove home and then had up to 24 hours to do something with the body. So he doesn't know what to do so he places the bag inthe backyard by the play house. After GA cleans the trunk he later disposes of the body.

i think if george had been responsible for disposing of the body, it wouldn't have just been dumped around the corner from where he lived.

 

[kageykaren]

Famous quote by CA, "Just because it's said, doesn't mean it means anything."

Don't ya love it?

Kind of reminds me of when LA at the depos when asked about his sisters honesty or something to that effect (I'm not as good as CA in memorizing the documents) he responded with, "Being truthful and being forthright are two different things." Runs in the family!

 

[cecybeans]

i think if george had been responsible for disposing of the body, it wouldn't have just been dumped around the corner from where he lived.

There is also the possibility that the body was not yet in the laundry bag. (Since we are going there, I will go there). It might have been in the wheel well and not visible when the trunk was opened.

If, in our hypothetical state, we assume that GA did discover her body there (after the tow truck guy "witnessed" there was no body in the trunk), he could have put the bag in that round laundry bag in the gargage (which matches the mfg of the ones on the shelves) and dumped the body off on Suburban on his way to work. I think GA would assume, as an ex-cop, that if KC did not actually know where her body was she could not "confess" and if it was found quickly while she was in jail, there would be enough suspicion of either an accomplice or SODDI that it might muddy the case. I would think GA would want her body close enough to keep an eye on it and for it to be found quickly, at least while she was in jail. That almost happened; Kronk was on the trail by Aug 11, but things just didn't turn out right for that. Then the storms came and KC was already out of jail. Plan B time. Just speculation, but we need to be open to all reasonable possibilities.

 

[ibyoungr]

Are we still dicussing the possibility of a fight on weekend June 7/8th and June 15th?

I am starting to think there was a possibility of a fight on Memorial Day.
But we have no ping records to work with.

 

[Tom'sGirl]

The direction of some posts have drifted OFF TOPIC from the title of this thread which is "Details Emerge Casey/Cindy Fight". Lets get back ON TOPIC.

Thanks!

 

[BondJamesBond]

Are we still dicussing the possibility of a fight on weekend June 7/8th and June 15th?

I am starting to think there was a possibility of a fight on Memorial Day.
But we have no ping records to work with.

Bring this puppy back 'round, IBY.

Yes, IMHO, we should look @ all 3 of the following day-by-day:

• 5/24-26 (incl. holiday)
• 5/31-6/1
• 6/7-6/8
• 6/15-6/15

Even though we don't have cell records for Memorial Day, we can still look @ other statements, weather, etc. For example, Jean ruled out weekdays since she was too busy, so..I'd treat Memorial Day itself like a weekend day.

I gave what I thought might be some brain-teasing interpretations/considerations based on Jean's statement a page or two back..FWIW. I haven't seen any follow-up comments expanding on those.

 

[BondJamesBond]

*snipped*

As always, thanks, BeanE :blowkiss:

Observations...as objective as I can be..in a rambling sorta way :bang:

1) My first thought was...well...these may've just been the average-everyday-Casey & Cindy exchanges...only that they carried on out the door and a neighbor heard them. That ,and, obviously, the timing in relation to Caylee's murder - maybe I'm ascribing too much to them as individual events...perhaps they're just indications of the tension 'tween Casey & Cindy

2) Then, I had to acknowledge that the neighbor doesn't indicate these scenes are 'typical'...so...dunno how long she's lived there, but, there should've been priors if this was status quo. This moves me back to 2 events of more import.

3) The ending of both events still placed Caylee in harms way, IMHO - allowing that Jean could've transposed the two events. (A) Casey goes for a jog, and (B) Cindy or Casey, depending on interpretation of the wording - leaves in a vehicle. My first instinct is to read

"she was screaming. But some, some, some stuff and her mom got in her car and drove away..."

...as...intended to be...

"she was screaming. But some, some, some stuff [pause] - at her mom [pause] -got in her car and drove away..."​

This interpretation would have Casey as the one getting in her car and driving away. However, I realize I've taken alot of liberty making this example...so...not a solid conclusion by any stretch. Easy for me to alternatively see how this could've been Cindy getting into the 4-Runner to goto Mt. Dora 6/15 @ 9AM w/ Caylee already in the car too.

Also noteworthy, IMHO, that even though Jean indicated she didn't see Caylee...I don't think we can assume that is a guarrantee Caylee wasn't already loaded into the car and waiting...could go either way.

In event 'A' Casey would be returning to the house after a jog...when & where the fight could've resumed and escalated. In event 'B', again depending on the interpretation of the wording it is important to know who drove off in the car.

4) Since Jean has done us a huge favor :thumb: by ruling out weekdays AND indicated what type of activity she was engaged in we can do some more sleuthing. While, both mowing & washing the car could be done in the rain...we can start by looking at the weather on weatherunderground for the weekend dates from late May through June (and even early July to be complete). Further, since both are likely to be done during daylight hours we can check sunrise, twilight & sunset times for the same weekend dates.

5) Combining the above w/ the pings that would appear to put Cindy & Casey both @ home in the times narrowed down by (4) above would give us another filter to use. We should be able to do this...ETA...IBY is already workin' on it.

6) Since one of the events has Casey going for a jog, even though we don't know how far (e.g. long) Casey would be walking/jogging/running...IMHO, we can speculate Casey would've showered afterwards before going anywhere...or...alternatively, it could've been in the evening, which would allow her to shower before going to bed. When we consider the option that Casey was the one that drove away, we can consider some period of cell inactivity prior to her leaving as possibly being explained by time for a jog + time for a shower...FWIW.

Dunno if that helps...or if I'm just eatin' up real-estate on the board here...

Bumping things to consider in a focused look @ the candidate dates...

 

[BondJamesBond]

Here's an example of weather information...JWG's much better @ this...just FYI, FWIW using data collected near the Orlando Int'l Airport..again just an example:

Saturday 5/24:

Sun Rise: Set:
Actual Time: 6:30 AM EDT 8:14 PM EDT
Civil Twilight: 6:04 AM EDT 8:40 PM EDT

Midnight-12:33 Heavy Thunderstorms
12:51AM-12:53PM Cloudy
1:53PM-2:20PM Rain=>Heavy T-Storms=>Light Rain
2:53PM-6:53PM Cloudy
7:33PM-9:53PM Heavy => Light Thurnderstorms=>Rain
10:53-Midnight Clear

Precipitation Total = 1.18 inches

Not exactly a good day to be doing yardwork, washing the car, or going for a jog, eh?
​

Sunday 5/25:

Sun Rise: Set:
Actual Time: 6:29 AM EDT 8:14 PM EDT
Civil Twilight: 6:03 AM EDT 8:41 PM EDT

Seems like 5/25 should stay in the mix, IMHO.

No precipitation.​

Monday 5/26:

Looks almost identical to Sunday, 5/25, its a keeper, IMHO.
​

***********************************

Saturday 5/31 & Sunday 6/1:

SunRise: Set:
Actual Time: 6:28 AM EDT 8:18 PM EDT
Civil Twilight: 6:01 AM EDT 8:44 PM EDT

No precipitation on Saturday.

Thundershowers begin ~7:24PM and end by 8:30PM on Sunday, 5/31. Otherwise cloudy all day.

Can't rule either day out based on weather ​

***********************************

Saturday 6/7 & Sunday 6/8:

No precipitation either day. Sunday a bit overcast. Both keepers, IMHO.​

***********************************

Saturday 6/14 & Sunday 6/15:

No precipitation on Saturday. Overcast on Sunday with light rain beginning 7:53PM. Not enough to interfere w/ cutting the grass, washing the car or jogging, IMHO. Both keepers, IMHO.​

 

[sumbunny]

June 15th 2008 in orlando florida, the weather was beautiful -27-30 (celcius)
No rain.

May 24th they had slight precipitation .82 centimeters 27-33 (celcius)
May 25th 71-87 F very little rain 0.06 inches
may 26th 64-84 F - no rain

June 7th no rain 71 F 93F
June 8th 71 F - 93F very little rain 0.02 inches

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I truely believe that the simplest, most easy answer is probably the correct answer.
The letter C and G are very close in simularity. Guessing, (like many peeps before me) that the card (for a second) began to be filled out LAST name FIRST. And, to complicate it more, perhaps it was began to be filled out with a dead ink pen. Thus the G came out closer to a C. After finding a working pen, the card was continued to be filled out. Only, now the filler-outer, re-read and relized it was FIRST name FIRST. A VERY simplistic mistake which should have NEVER been pointed out or noticed except for the BIZZARRE fact that KC killed her daughter and tried (somewhat) to frame an innocent woman. JMHO.

Ripley :blowkiss: Is that the easiest answer you can come up with? :help:

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I've been looking through Cindy's statements because I'm pretty sure that I remember reading that she went to Mt Dora on 7 June and her father "wasn't doing well" so she spent the night there and didn't get home until 8 June. I'll keep looking ~ but does anyone else remember this, too? I don't think it's been brought up on this thread yet, has it?

 

[beach]

Are we still dicussing the possibility of a fight on weekend June 7/8th and June 15th?

I am starting to think there was a possibility of a fight on Memorial Day.
But we have no ping records to work with.

I, too, have a gut feeling about Memorial Day being important. That was May 26, 2008. In CA's 8/1 interview she states that George had to work that night, they grilled out early before GA had to leave. At the last minute, they invited Lee to come over. She never confirms that he did, in fact, come over. I don't recall what, if anything, she says about Casey...She talks about it toward the beginnning of that 2+ hour audio tape. I'll listen again *sigh* and see if I notice anything significant.

 

[beach]

I, too, have a gut feeling about Memorial Day being important. That was May 26, 2008. In CA's 8/1 interview she states that George had to work that night, they grilled out early before GA had to leave. At the last minute, they invited Lee to come over. She never confirms that he did, in fact, come over. I don't recall what, if anything, she says about Casey...She talks about it toward the beginnning of that 2+ hour audio tape. I'll listen again *sigh* and see if I notice anything significant.

sorry to quote myself, but to continue the Memorial Day investigation -
CA says that she knows that Caylee was there, but she doesn't say a word about Casey being there. After listening to it again, I assume that Lee did come over, because at one point when asked the question about whether Casey and Caylee were there, she says, "I'll have to check with Lee". It was after that she says she KNOWS they had Caylee that day.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The neighbor is JC, who lives across the street from the As. JC is on the SA's witness list.

A link to JC's statement to LE on Sept 15 is here:

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2008/9/24/files_released_in_casey_anthony_case.html

Reported two incidents. Incident one:

The first time was uhm, I was outside washing the car and she, Casey came out of the house, screaming at her mother, and uh, calling her mother names.

Uh, I heard F-you, and, “Just shut up Mom. I don’t want to hear it anymore.” And uh, that was it. She went for a jog. And then the time after that, or I think no, before that, I was outside mowing the grass and I had just finished the grass. And uh, she came out screaming some stuff at her mom and I really didn’t know what she was screaming. But some, some, some stuff and her mom got in her car and drove away. So uhm, but uh, both instances uhm, Cindy had never raised her voice at her. Never, really put her whole head down and not said anything. You know and uh, Casey just acted, acted like a uh, spoiled brat basically.

Weekend. I have no time on a week day.

Caylee was in the house probably I guess. No, I didn’t see Caylee.

It was on her way out for a jog that words were exchanged


Incident two:

it was definitely well voices were raised. And again, it wasn’t, it wasn’t Cindy. It was Ca…Casey that was raising her voice.

And uhm, some things were said. Like I said, I, I had just finished the grass and uh, she just got in her car and drove away and that’s all I remember.

Probably a weekend. Week day I’m really never home.


This is referring to *both* incidents (yup, I really do think there were two fights, June 5 timeframe and June 15. Couty says both on weekends, so June 7/8 and June 15 works for me.):

JA: How long before we started coming over there (Beane note: on July 15)did you remember uh, hearing these arguments?
JC: I would say probably a month before that. So…


A month prior to when JA/LE started coming over there was June 15.

Has the JC info been correlated to the arguments, pings, etc? There's good info here about KC leaving the house etc. that maybe could be tied in. Sorry if I'm not keeping up enough on this

Wait a minute - I read JC's interview yesterday. JC was not clear as to when he/she heard the impolite words being hurled at CA outside the A home. JC was not clear on the order of the two incidents either. JC was clear that, in both cases, it appeared KC was the mean, upset one whereas CA appeared passive.

How are you pinning the June dates to the neighbor overhearing these exchanges? (at the top of the interview JC says he didn't want to commit that they happened in June, more like May )

The evidence has to have integrity. It's not fair to plug it in where it sounds good for the sake of it. It sounded to me like LE went "fishing" for a fit too.

The interview with JC left so much open to speculation - it was not clean cut at all.

 

[beach]

I've been looking through Cindy's statements because I'm pretty sure that I remember reading that she went to Mt Dora on 7 June and her father "wasn't doing well" so she spent the night there and didn't get home until 8 June. I'll keep looking ~ but does anyone else remember this, too? I don't think it's been brought up on this thread yet, has it?

Yes, according to CA she did go to Mt. Dora both weekends. As far as I know, the only thing we have to go on in re. the 6/7-6/8 weekend is CA's statement. I haven't re-read Shirley's interview yet, but maybe she confirms that.

 

[ibyoungr]

I am also thinking June 1st, a Sunday a fight was even more likely than Memorial day or weekend.
June 1st, Cindy did not have to go anywhere.
It was the beginning of her vacation. She wanted Caylee.
Casey is annoyed. She has to find a way to look like she is working while her mom is around all the time.

More to come....

 

[BondJamesBond]

I've been looking through Cindy's statements because I'm pretty sure that I remember reading that she went to Mt Dora on 7 June and her father "wasn't doing well" so she spent the night there and didn't get home until 8 June. I'll keep looking ~ but does anyone else remember this, too? I don't think it's been brought up on this thread yet, has it?

Thanks for bringing that up, EU.

That actually happened the week prior, IIRC. Cindy headed up to Mt. Dora Friday PM after work 5/30 and returned home Saturday PM 5/31, IIRC. I'm afraid I don't have the time of her return, and Cindy's EPass records don't go back that far.

The following weekend, 6/7, was the Saturday Cindy & George ran to the beach for a few hours. Muzikman noted the timing of this trip is verified by George's EPass records. :thumb: We've got 6/7 pretty well nailed down. IMHO, after it looked 'promising' initially, we learned that Casey left G&C's with Caylee before G&C got home from the beach.

HTH!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Wait... wait... wait... Hold up a minute here.
Seriously, you've got to ask yourself why the Sam Hill didn't LE hook that car up on the night of the 15th and seize it then? They left it in the A's custody for 24+ hrs? This is what annoys me more so than what GA did/didn't do!!

It doesn't annoy me more but it is too bad.

By the way, it was just under 24 hours per LE. They came the next day.
CA said that, to her, that's two days.:banghead:

We know, for example, that noon on Tues. to noon on Weds. is only 24 hours even though the time transfers over to the next day of the week.

CA said that, to her, that equals two days! :beamup:

Wonder no more why it is so difficult to create a timeline!

 

[BondJamesBond]

Friday was the 23rd, Saturday the 24th and Sunday the 25th with Memorial Day the 26th.

Thanks, IBY. :blowkiss: I edited my original post. If you wanna delete this one it may be less confusing.

I also realized I left out the 5/31-6/1 weekend :doh:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

*snipped*

Clearly you HAVE been doin' some thinking AE.

This seems like a good one to take over to the ping thread in the Case Analysis Forum for the date. Be happy to comment on it over there if you're interested.

...guess I have no one to blame but myself for the "Lower Left Side..." creeping into this thread. My apologies all... :blushing:

You can blame me Bond. The late night mentality took over! :crazy: