Discuss Max's death here - Thread #1.

[SunnieRN]

Don't need other words when the ones used in the SW make it quite clear suffocation is the only explanation for Max's cardiac arrest.

JMO

When a doctor writes 'at first', then yes, other words are indeed needed.

 

[SunnieRN]

They asked dr drew? Who did they ask? If they submitted a formal request to the AG asking it to be reopened, I would like to read it. And just so were clear, I never said JS letter was a request for it to be reopened. I am not trying to be rude - it's hard to make oneself clear without sounding a little harsh isn't it?

I think if you re read my post, that you are responding to, above, the meaning should become clear. If you do re read it and are unable to understand the meaning, by all means feel free to contact me so we can discuss this further.

 

[thinkingstraight]

I think if you re read my post, that you are responding to, above, the meaning should become clear. If you do re read it and are unable to understand the meaning, by all means feel free to contact me so we can discuss this further.

Ok I think I get it now. I don't consider the lawyer's interviews with Dr drew to be a formal, documented, legal request to re-open the investigation. As far as I can tell, she had not submitted that request with any authority until recently.

 

[MyBelle]

Speaking of MS's injuries, what do you think could have come first? The fall and then the suffocation, or the suffocation and then the "fall"? And, of course, I'm speaking of mere opinions.

According to the professional opinion of the doctor who called in the cops--and I have no reason to question his credentials or expertise--the suffocation was likely first. <modsnip> if he was suffocated, he wasn't then swinging from chandeliers or tripping over staircase railings or riding scooters but it really doesn't matter which came first. He didn't smother himself and I don't believe it was accidental.

JMO

 

[CDS22]

According to the professional opinion of the doctor who called in the cops--and I have no reason to question his credentials or expertise--the suffocation was likely first. It's just logical if he was suffocated, he wasn't then swinging from chandeliers or tripping over staircase railings or riding scooters but it really doesn't matter which came first. He didn't smother himself and I don't believe it was accidental.

JMO

Thanks for your response. I just can't wrap my mind around what happened to that sweet little boy.

 

[Wendy101]

Does anyone know if it was JS that ordered XZ away? If he did, he must have been awfully angry at her for some reason... If rebecca sent her away...why? In a fall like that , most adults would know that there would be an investigation .. XZ and RZ were the only ones there with Max .... I wonder if she was ever questioned by LE?

Anyone here think RZ would cover an accident that involved her lil sister and Max?

I don't know what to think anymore .... Initally I thought Max's death was an accident and Rebecca was murdered.
Now, I am starting to think that XZ was involved in Max's "accident" and Rebecca covered for her.... allowing the blame to lie on her shoulders in the eyes of DS & JS.

With the suffication happening first - it has been reported that XZ was the one upstairs. Max was also upstairs when he "fell".

 

[stilettos]

Does anyone know if it was JS that ordered XZ away? If he did, he must have been awfully angry at her for some reason... If rebecca sent her away...why? In a fall like that , most adults would know that there would be an investigation .. XZ and RZ were the only ones there with Max .... I wonder if she was ever questioned by LE?

Anyone here think RZ would cover an accident that involved her lil sister and Max?

I don't know what to think anymore .... Initally I thought Max's death was an accident and Rebecca was murdered.
Now, I am starting to think that XZ was involved in Max's "accident" and Rebecca covered for her.... allowing the blame to lie on her shoulders in the eyes of DS & JS.

With the suffication happening first - it has been reported that XZ was the one upstairs. Max was also upstairs when he "fell".

The ME report indicates it was a fall that killed MS. NOT suffocation.

 

[Wendy101]

The ME report indicates it was a fall that killed MS. NOT suffocation.

Whew! Scratch that off my list

 

[CDS22]

Does anyone know if it was JS that ordered XZ away? If he did, he must have been awfully angry at her for some reason... If rebecca sent her away...why? In a fall like that , most adults would know that there would be an investigation .. XZ and RZ were the only ones there with Max .... I wonder if she was ever questioned by LE?

Anyone here think RZ would cover an accident that involved her lil sister and Max?

I don't know what to think anymore .... Initally I thought Max's death was an accident and Rebecca was murdered.
Now, I am starting to think that XZ was involved in Max's "accident" and Rebecca covered for her.... allowing the blame to lie on her shoulders in the eyes of DS & JS.

With the suffication happening first - it has been reported that XZ was the one upstairs. Max was also upstairs when he "fell".

We don't know if JS told RZ to move out. There's just speculation at this point. I wish we knew more about the dinner he, AS, and RZ went to the night before her death.

 

[MyBelle]

Ok I think I get it now. I don't consider the lawyer's interviews with Dr drew to be a formal, documented, legal request to re-open the investigation. As far as I can tell, she had not submitted that request with any authority until recently.

Not sure if she'll have any success getting the AG to reinvestigate a suicide. The media has certainly picked up on the latest search warrant about the doctor calling in police about Max's condition and the media focus seems to have shifted to what really happened to Max while under RZ's care.

JMO

 

[stilettos]

Not sure if she'll have any success getting the AG to reinvestigate a suicide. The media has certainly picked up on the latest search warrant about the doctor calling in police about Max's condition and the media focus seems to have shifted to what really happened to Max while under RZ's care.

JMO

Actually it would seem to me, that the supposition in this SW has indicated to many in the public domain that there was Motive for an angry family member to seek retribution. MOO IMO there are many more idicators of a crime/coverup in RZ's death...but I think that both cases should be reopened with outside investigators.

 

[SunnieRN]

Not sure if she'll have any success getting the AG to reinvestigate a suicide. The media has certainly picked up on the latest search warrant about the doctor calling in police about Max's condition and the media focus seems to have shifted to what really happened to Max while under RZ's care.

JMO

Why would that be reasoning not to re open the investigation?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I am definitely confused now. Can you tell me if the family or family's lawyer requested the investigation before JS came out with his 1st letter to AG?

From what I read (after the letter had been sent to the AG by JS) was that Bremner was to present the case to the AG next week, iirc.

IMO

 

[MyBelle]

Does anyone know if it was JS that ordered XZ away? If he did, he must have been awfully angry at her for some reason... If rebecca sent her away...why? In a fall like that , most adults would know that there would be an investigation .. XZ and RZ were the only ones there with Max .... I wonder if she was ever questioned by LE?

Anyone here think RZ would cover an accident that involved her lil sister and Max?

I don't know what to think anymore .... Initally I thought Max's death was an accident and Rebecca was murdered.
Now, I am starting to think that XZ was involved in Max's "accident" and Rebecca covered for her.... allowing the blame to lie on her shoulders in the eyes of DS & JS.

With the suffication happening first - it has been reported that XZ was the one upstairs. Max was also upstairs when he "fell".

XZ supposedly left town the day after Max's injuries even though she had made an appointment for a return to the clinic. The SW said that the doctor spent four days of tests before he raised concerns with police. So, no, I don't believe JS would order XZ out of town so soon. He wouldn't have known about the doctor's suspicions that early and had no reason to believe the version of events wasn't true.

JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Not sure if she'll have any success getting the AG to reinvestigate a suicide. The media has certainly picked up on the latest search warrant about the doctor calling in police about Max's condition and the media focus seems to have shifted to what really happened to Max while under RZ's care.

JMO

Since the AGs office politely turned down JSs request I believe they will do the same when Bremner makes her request.

IMO

 

[jjenny]

Since the AGs office politely turned down JSs request I believe they will do the same when Bremner makes her request.

IMO

JS said he was satisfied with the investigation. That is clearly not what Bremner is going to do.

 

[jjenny]

According to the professional opinion of the doctor who called in the cops--and I have no reason to question his credentials or expertise--the suffocation was likely first. <modsnip> if he was suffocated, he wasn't then swinging from chandeliers or tripping over staircase railings or riding scooters but it really doesn't matter which came first. He didn't smother himself and I don't believe it was accidental.

JMO

<modsnip>. But AR was clear that spinal contusion was a cause of death, and not suffocation. The doctor claimed visible injuries couldn't explain brain swelling and cardiac arrest. But spinal contusion can explain all of these symptoms, which is very clear from the autopsy report. Suffocation is not going to cause spinal contusion.

 

[MyBelle]

Actually it would seem to me, that the supposition in this SW has indicated to many in the public domain that there was Motive for an angry family member to seek retribution. MOO IMO there are many more idicators of a crime/coverup in RZ's death...but I think that both cases should be reopened with outside investigators.

I've not seen any media articles even hinting that a family member would murder in revenge rather than rely on law enforcement to take action. I'm not aware of any past cases where the parents of murdered children have murdered the perp before LE had a chance to step in. And I'd probably be very sympathetic to any who did.


JMO

 

[jjenny]

The SW posted upthread said the ICU doctor ran four days of tests and could not determine the cause of Max's cardiac arrest. So, <modsnip> about Max's spinal injury and concluded his spinal injury did not cause the cardiac arrest.

Plus, the doctor also concluded the visible injuries to Max would not be caused by cardiac arrest. It's easy for me to understand why he called in police. It is just sickening what happened to this innocent child.

What I find especially significant is that the doctor formed his conclusion after four days of tests and being given a description of Max's fall. Exact times weren't given but I believe Rebecca was aware of his concerns when she killed herself. While it's true visible injuries couldn't explain brain swelling and cardiac arrest, visible injuries are not what caused brain swelling and cardiac arrest. Spinal contusion did, either directly or indirectly. Read the cause of death in the AR and it's all very clear.



JMO

If doctor believed spinal contusion could not explain brain swelling and cardiac arrest, then he would have wrote that. Instead, his opinion was that VISIBLE INJURIES couldn't explain brain swelling and cardiac arrest. Spinal contusion is nowhere to be found as the basis for his opinion.

 

[MyBelle]

Since the AGs office politely turned down JSs request I believe they will do the same when Bremner makes her request.

IMO

I agree. The sickening details just released about Max are now overshadowing RZ's death, imo.