Do you guys think AB and EB killed Zahra?

[RoseTree]

EB may have said that her life is over, but she was overdramatic in other ways as well. She also said that she was hot and that she had lost too much weight. And then she went on to make plans upon her release. She doesn't truly believe that her life is over. Like a true narcissist, she doesn't think that she will face consequences for this. She may fear sometimes that she will, but she is trying to make some romance happen with a stranger, she believes that she will get out, I think.

The same psychological issues that cause a parent to neglect to protect their child, dismember? her and dispose of her, and not help her- would probably also lead a person to believe that they won't face consequences. Just my personal, non professional assumption.

And yes, I think they did it. We don't need a quick course in appropriate parental reaction to know what the innocent do when their child is missing, and what the guilty do. We can just look back a few years.

But it never seems to shock any less, does it?

 

[captdj]

Neither showed sorrow or remorse...Both had knowledge and were involved in the disposal of Zahra.... what's the caused the death...could be neglect or could be abuse either way both are to blame...IMO

 

[Bobbisangel]

I think they were both involved in killing this child and covering it up.

I think the step-mom did something to her and then both parents decided how to handle her death. I think there came the point where they felt they had to report her missing. Stepmom wrote the note for ransom...they set the fire out back and then called 911. I think they planned to say that the kidnapper set the fire to distract the parents while he/she went into the house and stole the little girl. But for some reason the stepmom admitted that she is the one that wrote the ransom note! That blew the whole thing sky high. Then dad decided he better call LE about her being missing.

It is hard to believe the way that dad was when he called 911. Not concerned at all that his daughter was missing. He knew where she was and that she was dead. He acted like he could have cared less and wasn't going to involve himself in looking for her or asking the public to look for her.
The step-mom is looney. Listen to her letters and she is all about me, me, me.
Neither of those people cared a hoot about that sweet little girl. I just don't understand it. It is just horrible.

These two will be arrested one of these days. Justice will be served.

I'm glad that her bio mom is here and will be taking her back home with her. I think that is the plan?? My heart goes out to the mother. I don't know why she didn't have her daughter with her but I'm not going to judge her without even knowing the truth. Her little girl is dead. That has to be a nightmare for her.

 

[sorrell skye]

Based on AB's extremely odd demeanor during the 911 call to report his little girl *missing* (not the least of which is calmly greeting the 911 dispatcher with 'Hey, how ya doin?' - when any normal parent would have been hysterical!),

And also based on this:

Adam Baker, 33, was arrested at 3:12 a.m. on five counts of worthless checks, two counts of communicating threats, one count of assault with a deadly weapon and one count of failure to return rental property. (link: http://abcnews.go.com/US/zahra-baker-case-father-arrested-unrelated-charges/story?id=11964372 )

And this (pasted from same link):

Hickory police said that early in the investigation Adam Baker was cooperating fully, but county officials remained suspicious of him.

"He seems concerned. I don't know how sincere his concern is," Burke County Sheriff John McDevitt said days after Zahra disappeared. When asked if he believed Adam Baker, McDevitt said, "I don't."


I'm inclined to believe that AB was involved in the murder of his child, as well as the subsequent heinous cover-up of her murder (remains found in several locations).

Assault with a deadly weapon. That charge tells me that AB apparently has a propensity toward violence. Unfortunately, the NC criminal code classifies assault with a deadly weapon as a Class A1 misdemeanor, unless it was committed with intent to kill or unless it inflicts serous bodily injury (I'll refrain from ranting about how I feel about that). My point is: this demonstrates that AB has a violent temper, IMO.

There is also the statement made by the woman (initials BS) who took the photo of Zahra (the photo showing the bruised eye), the statement of a former neighbor (BG), & the statement of a relative (BB, wife of EB's nephew) who say they saw bruises and/or abuse inflicted upon Zahra:

At the time, [BS] said she didn't think much of the bruise because Zahra's stepmother would often say her daughter was clumsy.

"It's always she fell down, or she rolled out of bed or she didn't have her leg on right and couldn't walk right and fell. It's always Zahra's fault, for her injuries," [BG] said.

BB, a relative of Zahra's, said the girl "was beat almost every time I was over there for just the smallest things" by her stepmother.

BB, who is married to [EB]'s nephew, said Zahra was locked in her room most of the day and only allowed out for five minutes to eat.

IMO, it strains credulity to believe that AB was unaware of or turned a passively blind eye to the obvious abuse (per his 911 call: she only comes out when she wants something) - hmmm... sounds eerily similar to what BB, wife of EB's nephew said, except with an AB twist. If others were aware of the abuse, IMO, AB was also aware of it, and I suspect the abuse was inflicted by both EB and AB.

I suspect she was murdered by both EB and AB.

In addition, I suspect AB was complicit in the cover-up of Zahra's murder (along with EB), which is another reason I think he is also directly involved in her murder (as far as I'm concerned, no *parent* - bio, step, or otherwise - could do the things that have apparently been done to poor Zahra's remains unless they're a total sociopath of the worst kind & were also directly involved in her death).

IMO, if AB had felt even one iota of love for his daughter when she was alive, he would not have allowed her to be abused, and he would not have participated in covering up her death (i.e. the fake 911 call to report her *missing*, not to mention the cadaver dogs alerting to human remains in both cars).

In other words - if he had loved his daughter & tried to protect her when she was alive, he would have tried to protect her poor little body after she was deceased. IMO, he did neither, before or after. IMO, he participated in her abuse, he participated in her murder, and he participated in the desecration of her body after her death (along with EB).

I also believe this is the most despicable, repugnant, evil case of child homicide I've ever heard about.

 

[Clue Hopper]

I also think what needs to take relevance in this case, is that EB is a known liar via numerous family members and neighbors statements. This is not something that just happened. She has been doing it for many years. She makes up stories. This is her character.

This is what also leads me to think in the terms that maybe, just maybe AB did not believe his daughter had been kidnapped or put in harms way.

I do not see her acting on all of this alone though. I do see everything she does is for personal gain though. If she thinks she can get something out of a situation she will do it. She has also gotten away with breaking the law for so long, that I think she believes she is untouchable. JMO.

I do wonder if she had been told about ED looking for ZB, and wanting contact.

I have a whole list of possibilities that I can't put out there.

 

[bellyup]

Hickory police said that early in the investigation Adam Baker was cooperating fully, but county officials remained suspicious of him.

"He seems concerned. I don't know how sincere his concern is," Burke County Sheriff John McDevitt said days after Zahra disappeared. When asked if he believed Adam Baker, McDevitt said, "I don't."

I discredited this comment from McDevitt entirely. He was from Burke County and wasn't heavily involved in the investigation. Reports from LE that were closely dealing with AB at the time went against what McDevitt said.

Assault with a deadly weapon. That charge tells me that AB apparently has a propensity toward violence. ...... My point is: this demonstrates that AB has a violent temper, IMO.
I also discredit this report / these charges. They were made by a self admitted drug addict (BB) who had bad blood with EB. They were dismissed (with leave) by the judge which tells me he didn't buy BB's story either.

There is also the statement made by the woman (initials BS) who took the photo of Zahra (the photo showing the bruised eye)
To the best of my knowledge the photo of Zahra with the "bruised eye" wasn't taken by BS ? ? ? If it were, I question why BS has been standing by AB's side ever since Zahra went missing ???

BB, a relative of Zahra's, said the girl "was beat almost every time I was over there for just the smallest things" by her stepmother. BB, who is married to [EB]'s nephew, said Zahra was locked in her room most of the day and only allowed out for five minutes to eat.
This comment again was made by BB ( who is NOT related to Zahra - she is separated from EB's nephew). It's also worthy to note that BB did NOT bother to ever call DDS and also left her daughter in EB's care . She apparently wasn't too concerned about Zahra. BB's own mother didn't believe her daughter because of her drug issues.

Purple above my response

 

[songline]

I have mixed feelings about this. I can see where Zahra could have died in her bed and been found dead. This child had lung cancer. Lung cancer like pancreatic cancer has no cure. There is treatment for it but it returns sooner or later. Also, you don't have to be on oxygen or be short of breath excessivly to have lung cancer. Also, if she had been abused regularly this took a toll on her little body too.

Realizing that EB has been a lair for the most part, she has nothing to lose by telling the truth now or atleast part of the truth. She has said herself her whole life in ruined now, which is true.

On the flip side of that I can see that maybe one or the other of them killed her. I don't see a home inspection by DSS as a reason to kill her though as those appointments can be rescheduled. There are just many variables to this case and as far fetched as some of them may seem I do try to keep some kind of reasonable head about me instead of emotion when answering this question.

Now, if she was found dead and they destroyed her body, mutiliation of a dead body is a crime but not a crime like murder and is handled differently.

It is all something I am still thinking on as I have mixed feelings and views on how this child died.

Most people who JUST die in their bed get a proper burial.
They do not get chopped up.
They don't kill because a home inspection is due.
This couple is a sad excuse for human beings.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

<<<article purposely snipped>>>>>

The focus now turns to how Zahra's life ended. Police have not ruled out her father, Adam Baker, 33, as a suspect. Nor have they ruled out her stepmother, Elisa Baker, who is in custody charged over penning a bogus $US1million ransom note about an alleged abduction, found on a car windscreen at the family home and apparently designed to throw off the investigation. Her family reported her missing on October 9.
Sources say it was Mrs Baker, a tattooed, self-confessed goth and lover of vampire movies, who pointed investigators to several sites around the Hickory area, including bush off Christie Road, where Zahra's prosthetic leg was found.

In the same area they found a bone that, after forensic testing, was confirmed as Zahra's.

DNA from the bone matched that taken from personal items.

The most grisly find was unearthed on the edge of the secluded Gunpowder Creek, to which Mrs Baker is also believed to have led police.

On Wednesday searchers found a shallow grave, carefully dug through the soil and found human remains.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/at-last-zahra-can-be-laid-to-rest-20101113-17ruq.html

Very happy to learn EB/AB have not been ruled out as suspects. I only wonder what truly happened to Zahra. Was it the cancer that resurfaced? Was it being beaten one time too many and too hard? Either way, this child was neglected by her very own flesh and blood. Would AB go along with helping to dispose of his child under the threat of being jailed for murder since they neglected to get this child her medical care? Does EB know how to manipulate to get her way? EB had no emotional connection to Zahra, I always wonder why someone would get involved with a person who had children if you didn't want to help raise that child.

How does someone have such rage and hatred toward innocent children?

I also wonder if COD can be determined so that there is no questions on the hows/whys of Zahra's demise...JMHO

I await arrests in Zahra's demise...JMHO

Justice for Zahra!

 

[docwho3]

Not sure I agree with some of your conclusions although I can see how you arrived at them.

'. . . I discredited this comment from McDevitt entirely. He was
from Burke County and wasn't heavily involved in the investigation. Reports from LE that were
closely dealing with AB at the time went against what McDevitt said. . . .'

Some of the reports I watched on TV said Adam was cooperating to the extent of showing up
when and where he was told to be but that any further sorts of cooperation was unclear.

In past cases I have seen where someone that was said to be cooperating
in some news reports and not cooperating in other news reports and still was charged
with a crime later. I take it with a grain of salt whether they are cooperating
or not & wait and see how it all shakes out in the end.

'. . . They were made by a self admitted drug addict (BB) who had
bad blood with EB. They were dismissed (with leave) by the judge which tells me he
didn't buy BB's story either. . . .'

Without video tape of the actions there was no supporting evidence and it seems from
the news stories I often read that judges often dismiss cases of they-said vs they-said
without supporting evidence.

Perhaps the Bakers more readily showed their dark side to drug addicts.
And Brittany Bentley did admit to being an addict rather
than hide the fact & then try to snipe at the Bakers.
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/10/20/178451_news.html

I cannot discredit her information solely because she is an addict who had a run in with the Bakers
especially in light of what happened to Zahra.

Although I did see at least 2 news reports that listed her(BB) as being related to Zahra,
I also saw other reports that more correctly listed her as being married to a nephew
of Elisa Baker and/or maried but separated from the nephew.

Since Elisa was said to be the step mom of Zahra I suppose some news reporters
might consider that even a distant relationship by marriage to Elisa Baker's side of the
family might make that person a very distant relative of Zahra by marriage.
Seems silly and has no real bearing on the case as far as I can see.

I am unclear that her own mother did not believe her about the reports but it
really does not matter to me as many mother daughter relationships have some animosity
or lack of trust at times but I did see this written in a news report:
'. . . Ms Bentley claimed that she told her mother, Kim Drum, about issues that Zahra
was subjected to, but Ms Drum says she never contacted social services either.
The two women claim that, although they never called the department themselves,
they did "make sure" social services investigated the case. Although they did not actually
explain on WBT Radio how they made sure that happened, . . .'
BBM
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/10/20/178451_news.html

From that article it sounds more to me as if they both tsk-tsk'd about the abuse but failed
to turn it in and now feel guilty about that.

Whether or not anyone believed her/them seems not to have changed the fact that evidently
abuse was happening in the home and it seems to have resulted in Zahra's death.

And these two were allegedly not the only people to have reported possible abuse happening to
Zahra as allegedly a school teacher also turned this in.
'. . . Neighbors and relatives have said that Elisa Baker had a short temper
and was abusive toward her stepdaughter. Caldwell County Department of Social Services
investigated the family because Zahra went to school with bruises and a teacher alerted
school officials, who have said they are prohibited by law from discussing the case. . .'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/13/zahra-baker-killing-is-my_n_783109.html

However, as I have posted in a different thread, I have seen no reports at all that say
that Adam was violent towards Zahra and that is, after all, what this case is likely really
about. . . who was violent to Zahra resulting in her death.

All the reports I have read list Elisa as the one being violent towards Zahra.

Still, I think Adam probably helped in body/parts disposal.

It is tempting to say that Adam is out walking around free and then conclude that
he must therefore be considered to be innocent and that Elisa is being held behind bars
and thus must be guilty of this crime but I have seen people walk free a long time before
finally being charged with murder so in this case I will wait & see what happens in the end
with who is charged with what crime.

 

[raisincharlie]

I don't think AB murdered Zarah, but I am 99% sure he could have prevented it.

 

[NancyA]

Not sure I agree with some of your conclusions although I can see how you arrived at them.

Some of the reports I watched on TV said Adam was cooperating to the extent of showing up
when and where he was told to be but that any further sorts of cooperation was unclear.

In past cases I have seen where someone that was said to be cooperating
in some news reports and not cooperating in other news reports and still was charged
with a crime later. I take it with a grain of salt whether they are cooperating
or not & wait and see how it all shakes out in the end.


Without video tape of the actions there was no supporting evidence and it seems from
the news stories I often read that judges often dismiss cases of they-said vs they-said
without supporting evidence.

Perhaps the Bakers more readily showed their dark side to drug addicts.
And Brittany Bentley did admit to being an addict rather
than hide the fact & then try to snipe at the Bakers.
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/10/20/178451_news.html

I cannot discredit her information solely because she is an addict who had a run in with the Bakers
especially in light of what happened to Zahra.

Although I did see at least 2 news reports that listed her(BB) as being related to Zahra,
I also saw other reports that more correctly listed her as being married to a nephew
of Elisa Baker and/or maried but separated from the nephew.

Since Elisa was said to be the step mom of Zahra I suppose some news reporters
might consider that even a distant relationship by marriage to Elisa Baker's side of the
family might make that person a very distant relative of Zahra by marriage.
Seems silly and has no real bearing on the case as far as I can see.

I am unclear that her own mother did not believe her about the reports but it
really does not matter to me as many mother daughter relationships have some animosity
or lack of trust at times but I did see this written in a news report:
'. . . Ms Bentley claimed that she told her mother, Kim Drum, about issues that Zahra
was subjected to, but Ms Drum says she never contacted social services either.
The two women claim that, although they never called the department themselves,
they did "make sure" social services investigated the case. Although they did not actually
explain on WBT Radio how they made sure that happened, . . .'
BBM
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2010/10/20/178451_news.html

From that article it sounds more to me as if they both tsk-tsk'd about the abuse but failed
to turn it in and now feel guilty about that.

Whether or not anyone believed her/them seems not to have changed the fact that evidently
abuse was happening in the home and it seems to have resulted in Zahra's death.

And these two were allegedly not the only people to have reported possible abuse happening to
Zahra as allegedly a school teacher also turned this in.
'. . . Neighbors and relatives have said that Elisa Baker had a short temper
and was abusive toward her stepdaughter. Caldwell County Department of Social Services
investigated the family because Zahra went to school with bruises and a teacher alerted
school officials, who have said they are prohibited by law from discussing the case. . .'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/13/zahra-baker-killing-is-my_n_783109.html

However, as I have posted in a different thread, I have seen no reports at all that say
that Adam was violent towards Zahra and that is, after all, what this case is likely really
about. . . who was violent to Zahra resulting in her death.

All the reports I have read list Elisa as the one being violent towards Zahra.

Still, I think Adam probably helped in body/parts disposal.

It is tempting to say that Adam is out walking around free and then conclude that
he must therefore be considered to be innocent and that Elisa is being held behind bars
and thus must be guilty of this crime but I have seen people walk free a long time before
finally being charged with murder so in this case I will wait & see what happens in the end
with who is charged with what crime.

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, I wish I'd written that. Masterly.

If AB walks away from this without being charged or is otherwise exonerated for all involvement in Zahra&#8217;s murder and the subsequent cover up, yeah, legally he&#8217;s an innocent man. Morally? No. He is absolutely guilty of total dereliction of his duty as a custodial parent/guardian. Ignorance of what was happening to Zahra at the hands of his wife does not absolve him, he SHOULD have known something was wrong. Other people around Zahra saw worrying signs that this was a troubled child why didn&#8217;t he? People can throw blame on the biomum because &#8216;she didn&#8217;t try hard enough to find Zahra but even if she never lifted a single solitary finger to find Zahra it doesn&#8217;t make her guilty of anything but being an absentee parent. Not admirable, certainly, in an age where mothers have an enormous (and unfair IMO) amount of pressure on them to be June Cleaver and Mary Poppins all rolled into one, but not that uncommon and really not that damnable assuming they don&#8217;t just abandon their babies in a dumpster, biofathers do it all the time.

Fact is, AB was right THERE on the spot so how come he gets a pass for ignorance, low IQ or obliviousness which we would NEVER give to a biomother in the same situation? After a child has been seriously ill with not one but two bouts of cancer, lost a leg and hard of hearing as a result, he was duty bound to keep a close and careful eye on her for any signs of physical, emotional or mental changes which might indicate a relapse. It&#8217;s not enough for him to claim &#8216;that&#8217;s woman&#8217;s work&#8217; in this instance, EB was not the one who would know ALL the details of Zahra&#8217;s medical history and might (not will) be forgiven for putting down changes in Zahra&#8217;s demeanour to the onset of puberty etc he has no such excuse.

 

[Clue Hopper]

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde, I wish I'd written that. Masterly.

If AB walks away from this without being charged or is otherwise exonerated for all involvement in Zahra’s murder and the subsequent cover up, yeah, legally he’s an innocent man. Morally? No. He is absolutely guilty of total dereliction of his duty as a custodial parent/guardian. Ignorance of what was happening to Zahra at the hands of his wife does not absolve him, he SHOULD have known something was wrong. Other people around Zahra saw worrying signs that this was a troubled child why didn’t he? People can throw blame on the biomum because ‘she didn’t try hard enough to find Zahra but even if she never lifted a single solitary finger to find Zahra it doesn’t make her guilty of anything but being an absentee parent. Not admirable, certainly, in an age where mothers have an enormous (and unfair IMO) amount of pressure on them to be June Cleaver and Mary Poppins all rolled into one, but not that uncommon and really not that damnable assuming they don’t just abandon their babies in a dumpster, biofathers do it all the time.

Fact is, AB was right THERE on the spot so how come he gets a pass for ignorance, low IQ or obliviousness which we would NEVER give to a biomother in the same situation? After a child has been seriously ill with not one but two bouts of cancer, lost a leg and hard of hearing as a result, he was duty bound to keep a close and careful eye on her for any signs of physical, emotional or mental changes which might indicate a relapse. It’s not enough for him to claim ‘that’s woman’s work’ in this instance, EB was not the one who would know ALL the details of Zahra’s medical history and might (not will) be forgiven for putting down changes in Zahra’s demeanour to the onset of puberty etc he has no such excuse.

When trying to make sense of anything that is known to be said. It makes for several different scenario's go through ones mind. Far fetched and not so far fetched. With the stating of puberty at one point it had went through my mind that EB tends to like younger men. If she had her eye on a much younger one, maybe she passed it off to AB as a crush that ZB had. I know there are some parents around (I don't like it by the way) that let their children have relationships at an early age. Therefore this guy was able to come around more. Like I said it was just a thought that had ran through my mind when trying to make sense of any of it.

 

[carbuff]

*IF* the abuse allegations chronicled in the media are true, then it seems like many more people than just AB are guilty of dereliction of duty and looking away when they knew they should do something...

Note, not saying that excuses him. But.

 

[docwho3]

. . .If AB walks away from this without being charged or is
otherwise exonerated for all involvement in Zahra’s murder and the subsequent
cover up, yeah, legally he’s an innocent man. Morally? No. He is absolutely guilty of total
dereliction of his duty as a custodial parent/guardian. Ignorance of what was happening
to Zahra at the hands of his wife does not absolve him,. . .

Well said.

Cheering you on.

 

[NancyA]

I totally agree that there are plenty of others who have nothing to congratulate themselves for in doing so little to help Zahra and if there were any justice they would have to answer in a court of law too, but bottom line they didn't live with Zahra and EB, her father did.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Exactly he was there, in the house, every day. He was her father, he I assume laughed with her, I assume they shared 'in' jokes, I assume he called her a pet name, I assume he saw her as a person.

How he could have sat back passively, and watch her be treated inhumanely and unltimately killed is beyond me. But it seems he did.

 

[grayjay]

Who doesn't check on a child that age for 12 hours! That's an admission of neglect right in the 911 call. And to him it doesn't seem strange because compared to what really happened, well, it's kind of just fine in his mind.

 

[mikeysmommom]

http://www.wtma.com/rssItem.asp?feedid=118&itemid=29598232


"I was trying to save us both, but why should I? He is letting everyone destroy me," Elisa Baker wrote referring to Zahra's father, Adam Baker.


After reading this I am starting to believe they both killed her.Keeping him out of jail and her in is working IMO.She will spill it all I bet.:furious:

 

[DLT88]

http://www.wtma.com/rssItem.asp?feedid=118&itemid=29598232


"I was trying to save us both, but why should I? He is letting everyone destroy me," Elisa Baker wrote referring to Zahra's father, Adam Baker.


After reading this I am starting to believe they both killed her.Keeping him out of jail and her in is working IMO.She will spill it all I bet.:furious:

I thought the same thing when I read that. And her just saying "I was trying to save us both...." Well, why would she need to "save" them both unless they had killed this child for one thing. Innocent people don't need "saving". And it also brought to my mind that what was done, was done together, and the 2 of them worked as a team.

 

[bellyup]

I thought the same thing when I read that. And her just saying "I was trying to save us both...." Well, why would she need to "save" them both unless they had killed this child for one thing. Innocent people don't need "saving". And it also brought to my mind that what was done, was done together, and the 2 of them worked as a team.

I'm not believing her at all.
I take it to be "I was trying to save us both ... but now I'm just trying to save my butt." Her letters are self centered rants on how unfair it is that she is being focused on. OF COURSE she's going to say anything she can to shift focus off of her.