do you think maddie is alive or dead

[tezi]

BBM .. that's not how it works. Dried blood does not equal decomp with a dog .. when a body decomposes it changes chemically that is what you and dogs can smell .. dogs of course are much more sensitive and can detect more subtle changes.

I don't believe she could be found by a 'search' the trail has gone cold, and it has been years. Where on earth would people 'search'? All of Europe?

Exactly.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

BBM .. that's not how it works. Dried blood does not equal decomp with a dog .. when a body decomposes it changes chemically that is what you and dogs can smell .. dogs of course are much more sensitive and can detect more subtle changes.

I don't believe she could be found by a 'search' the trail has gone cold, and it has been years. Where on earth would people 'search'? All of Europe?

Maybe a link.. Because all the links I find dogs are trained to hit on blood, biological material that could be human. IT does not say they can differentiate what it is, just that they found it.

Dogs are awesome.. But it depends on a lot. That dog could have hit on anything biological does not equal dead child.

"An alert from a cadaver dog is only reasonable suspicion. The dog alert must be
corroborated by other evidence. "

http://www.policek9.com/Fleck/Cadaver Dogs.pdf

It means nothing more, That keep looking. NOt that the hit in itself means anything.

 

[jordynsmommy529]

Im not trying to make anything up or make any one look anyway.. The McCanns are innocent right now. They have not been found guilty let alone tried for anything.

At this point their little girl is still missing and there is no proof of any death occurring.

"Law enforcement sources tell bigcountryhomepage.com that "hits" can range from decomposing flesh to blood found on a bandage. In many cases, cadaver dogs are trained to alert on any type of human blood.

Many cadaver dogs can sniff out the presence of blood, bones, organs, teeth, and other body-related items. The dogs are trained to specifically recognize human scents and not those of animals."

http://www.bigcountryhomepage.com/s...adaver-dog-hit/d/story/-aEhDCIp2E6fzad8Sd0f4A

It stands to reason that if a dog is trained to smell decaying human flesh, Any blood that is in the room and decayed would be something the Dog could hit on. This is a hotel room. Who knows what has happened in it. What could have been in there at one time. Same for a trunk of a car.

"Testing for certification takes one week. In order to be
certified, blood, tissue, or other human remains are hidden and the canine must
find the hiding place."

http://www.policek9.com/Fleck/Cadaver Dogs.pdf

"It is true that Dr. Mires testified that the fact that a cadaver dog alerted at a
certain spot was "not enough by itself" to prove the presence (or presence at
some time in the past) of human remains to a reasonable degree of scientific
certainty"

Same link..

There is just no way to know if that dog hit on something what it actually was.

I think you should read this thread! Will put all the misinformation too rest!
Human Remains (*cadaver) Detection (HRD) dog questions and answers **NO DISCUSSION** - Page 7 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I think you should read this thread! Will put all the misinformation too rest!
Human Remains (*cadaver) Detection (HRD) dog questions and answers **NO DISCUSSION** - Page 7 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

That's okay. I like to ferret out my own information. I do research for myself. I also never take anything as gospel without back up.

Dogs are fallible. Depending in their handler that can be an issue too.

But in the end. There is no proof that maddie us dead. None. As long as she is missing people should be focusing on finding her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Auto correct has a mind of its own.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

That's okay. I like to ferret out my own information. I do research for myself. I also never take anything as gospel without back up.

Dogs are fallible. Depending in their handler that can be an issue too.

But in the end. There is no proof that maddie us dead. None. As long as she is missing people should be focusing on finding her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Auto correct has a mind of its own.

Someone provided you with a link to help you there .. anyway, that is up to you I guess if you would prefer to try your luck with Google.

There are many links in that thread and more information than I could provide you by tossing out a link as you requested. Up to you however.

 

[Sleuth5]

Someone provided you with a link to help you there .. anyway, that is up to you I guess if you would prefer to try your luck with Google.

There are many links in that thread and more information than I could provide you by tossing out a link as you requested. Up to you however.

Thanks for that helpful link, MrsG. I'm finding it most illuminating.

 

[RANCH]

Oriah Oriah is offline
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
So am I understanding right that a cadaver dog will NOT hit on blood that at one time belonged to a living being? Or they will?
An HRD dog WILL alert on human blood.

BBM

Oriah plainly says that HRD dogs WILL alert on human blood. That's because the scent from decomposing human blood is something that will cause them to alert.

The proper term for these dogs is "Human Remains Detection" dogs and not "cadaver" dogs. They are trained to alert to the scent of human decomposition and not just "cadavers." Blood from a living person can provide that scent.

MOO.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Human Remains (*cadaver) Detection (HRD) dog questions and answers **NO DISCUSSION**

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Someone provided you with a link to help you there .. anyway, that is up to you I guess if you would prefer to try your luck with Google.

There are many links in that thread and more information than I could provide you by tossing out a link as you requested. Up to you however.

No one helps me with links. I look up everything for myself and research it. I source it and re source things.

 

[jordynsmommy529]

That's okay. I like to ferret out my own information. I do research for myself. I also never take anything as gospel without back up.

Dogs are fallible. Depending in their handler that can be an issue too.

But in the end. There is no proof that maddie us dead. None. As long as she is missing people should be focusing on finding her.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Auto correct has a mind of its own.

If you would rather do your own research then hear it from a expert in SAR & K9SAR that's fine. But anything can be put on google that dosen't make it true!

 

[tezi]

Someone provided you with a link to help you there .. anyway, that is up to you I guess if you would prefer to try your luck with Google.

There are many links in that thread and more information than I could provide you by tossing out a link as you requested. Up to you however.

And Mrs. G, just a helpful piece of advice, don't quote any books written by people who know anything about the case. They will be called "money grubbers."

JMO

 

[jordynsmommy529]

BBM

Oriah plainly says that HRD dogs WILL alert on human blood. That's because the scent from decomposing human blood is something that will cause them to alert.

The proper term for these dogs is "Human Remains Detection" dogs and not "cadaver" dogs. They are trained to alert to the scent of human decomposition and not just "cadavers." Blood from a living person can provide that scent.

MOO.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Human Remains (*cadaver) Detection (HRD) dog questions and answers **NO DISCUSSION**

Please refer too post # 6 on that thread!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If you would rather do your own research then hear it from a expert in SAR & K9SAR that's fine. But anything can be put on google that dosen't make it true!

Since everything on the net is pretty much on google, It most likely will be that some things will be found to be true.. Especially when they can be sourced, re sourced and backed up with other data.

Dogs can be only as good as the handler, Dogs can alert on blood and biologic material.

MM is still alive until someone can prove she is not. This does not reach to the level of proof.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Please refer too post # 6 on that thread!

Why would we go back to post 6 when we are further along in the conversation with more facts?

 

[tezi]

No one helps me with links. I look up everything for myself and research it. I source it and re source things.

Then, why ask for a link?

JMO

 

[jordynsmommy529]

Why would we go back to post 6 when we are further along in the conversation with more facts?

Don't want too read it because it contradicts exactly what you just said! Coming from a verified expert on web-sleuths, what more do you need?



HRD dogs should not be hitting on anything that comes from a living body.

Words from the expert!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Don't want too read it because it contradicts exactly what you just said! Coming from a verified expert on web-sleuths, what more do you need?



HRD dogs should not be hitting on anything that comes from a living body.

Words from the expert!

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Human Remains (*cadaver) Detection (HRD) dog questions and answers **NO DISCUSSION**

This post makes it clear that dogs will indeed hit on blood from a living donor over time.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Since everything on the net is pretty much on google, It most likely will be that some things will be found to be true.. Especially when they can be sourced, re sourced and backed up with other data.

Dogs can be only as good as the handler, Dogs can alert on blood and biologic material.

MM is still alive until someone can prove she is not. This does not reach to the level of proof.

It was sufficient for the PJ, also the British police who provided the dogs in the first place.

It was sufficient for the courts, who rightly tossed out the McCann attempt to censor publication of Amaral's book, thereby officially sanctioning it as an accurate account of the investigation.

This is NOT a faith-based site, it is a sleuthing site.

As such, roundly discounting every word ever published on the event, especially by the lead detective, is akin to insisting the earth is flat.

The McCann supporters are faith based, ignore the facts, and are dedicated to wasting everyone's time by insisting black is white...anti-sleuthing, if you like.

Perhaps it would be a great idea to have an IDI thread on Madeleine's case too, where Intruders and the Demonising of The Parents Who Did Nothing Wrong can be discussed in mind numbing detail.

:cow:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Then, why ask for a link?

JMO

To see the source of the information that is being used. :drumroll:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

If you would rather do your own research then hear it from a expert in SAR & K9SAR that's fine. But anything can be put on google that dosen't make it true!

Yeah, I'm with you .. I think it makes much more sense to hear it from an expert trained in the field myself .. even if you wish to do some kind of 'research' on a search engine, you know, that expert would probably have access to, oh I don't know .. a real education, scholarly research papers or even clinical trials or something.

They've likely even worked in the field!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It was sufficient for the PJ, also the British police who provided the dogs in the first place.

It was sufficient for the courts, who rightly tossed out the McCann attempt to censor publication of Amaral's book, thereby officially sanctioning it as an accurate account of the investigation.zsx

This is NOT a faith-based site, it is a sleuthing site.

As such, roundly discounting every word ever published on the event, especially by the lead detective, is akin to insisting the earth is flat.

The McCann supporters are faith based, ignore the facts, and insist on wasting everyone's time by insisting black is white...anti-sleuthing, if you like.

:cow:

None of this has to do with what we are discussing.. Which is that a dog can hit on old blood left from a live person at another time. So that negates any hits from the hotel because without sourcing it could be from anyone.