Does Skyline school bear any responsibility?

[sherbetjello]

do you think Skyline bears any responsibility for Kyron's disappearance?

Yes, the school should hold responsibility.
In their mistakes they should opt to be the first school in the area (if not ALL of Portland) to mandate not only new rules, but also security cameras.
I know where I am (west coast), I have to be buzzed into my child's school after they preview who I am on a security camera.
[Edit:] After I am buzzed in, I have to go straight to the office, sign in (with my ID), grab a sticker, display it on my chest and I am escorted to where I am supposed to go.
That this isn't being imposed in schools across the country, after everything that has happened the past two decades, is beyond my comprehension.
If I was the Principal of Skyline you better believe I would have some sort of PTA drive, cake walk, etc. etc. that would help get this to a government officials desk.
The apology that the Principal and staff of that school owes the Horman family,.. I have no idea how one would apologize for that. The only way is action.

 

[wondering1]

Security cameras on the doors and some other spots should be mandatory at schools IMO. Although abductions from school are rare it is not just abductions that they can be useful to prevent or to solve, but theft, school violence, vandalism etc.

Clever perps can always find ways to avoid the cameras or avoid being recognizable in them but I'm all for making it as hard for them as possible. The call system for absences would be nice too but my children's school doesn't have it either.

If it was Terri I'm not sure that the school having stricter sign out procedures would mean that Kyron would be accounted for today. If she was really determined to let him go missing she would have figured out some other plan. If it was a random stranger who just wandered in to stare at kids and nobody asked anything then the school has a security problem for sure.

yep, and that's the main reason why they are in schools. And truancy and related funding issues are the main reason why parents are called when their child is absent. Apparently people have been led to believe this is about safety of the children. It's not. It's about money and liability...period. jmoo.

 

[wondering1]

Yes, the school should hold responsibility.
In their mistakes they should opt to be the first school in the area (if not ALL of Portland) to mandate not only new rules, but also security cameras.
I know where I am (west coast), I have to be buzzed into my child's school after they preview who I am on a security camera. That this isn't being imposed in schools across the country, after everything that has happened the past two decades, is beyond my comprehension.
If I was the Principal of Skyline you better believe I would have some sort of PTA drive, cake walk, etc. etc. that would help get this to a government officials desk.
The apology that the Principal and staff of that school owes the Horman family,.. I have no idea how one would apologize for that. The only way is action.

what, like Columbine? they were students and they would have been admitted. Parents will be admitted. Cameras and sign-in, sign-out offers no protection at all from the real dangers in a school. Random abductions by strangers in the school are not the REAL dangers. jmoo

 

[eyes4crime]

fwiw, I didn't mean to lump you in with my way of thinking by agreeing with your op. All the flack can and should come raining down on me. I don't think taking precautions to protect children IN A SCHOOL from predators is worthwhile. Almost all of the time in elem. school, in particular, abductors or abusers are parents or teachers.

It's a waste of resources, imo, since what happened to kyron is either typical, and unpreventable (a *parent* abduction) or so random and rare as to not warrant extra precautions. jmoo.

Important to remember that when it happens to your child - that 'rare' turns into a full 100% moo

 

[sherbetjello]

what, like Columbine? they were students and they would have been admitted. Parents will be admitted. Cameras and sign-in, sign-out offers no protection at all from the real dangers in a school. Random abductions by strangers in the school are not the REAL dangers. jmoo

1 camera in that main hallway, and 1 camera out on that parking lot. There wouldn't be 1 question who Kyron left with that day.

Not 1.

 

[wondering1]

1 camera in that main hallway, and 1 camera out on that parking lot. There wouldn't be 1 question who Kyron left with that day.

Not 1.

nor would it make a difference about what happened to him.

 

[sherbetjello]

nor would it make a difference about what happened to him.

Really? I find that hard to believe.

I respect your view, and get what you are trying to say, but there is always powerful evidence in a video. That's why LE is searching for those, currently.

 

[akashana]

I graduated from high school in 1981. My school had kids coming and going all day long, as some worked half a day and got OWE credit (Occupational Work Experience). I can remember at least 6 sets of doors, not including the adjacent vocational building. We could leave for lunch and return (or not) to class. There were no guards, cameras, locked doors. I can only imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to monitor the comings and goings of so many teens, and fortunately, there were never any incidents.

My parochial grade school was much the same, altho much smaller, and absences would be much more noticeable. When I was in second grade, I missed the bus once because I was lost in a book and not paying attention. I was a shy kid and afraid to tell the teacher, so I just set out on my own to walk home. It was a mile away, and it took me awhile. It was my small hometown, I was quite familiar with the route and there were sidewalks the entire way so it was pretty safe. But when I finally arrived late, my Grandma was in a panic because I hadn't come home. My mom was a schoolteacher herself in a neighboring district, so she wasn't home. When I told my Grandma what had happened, she got on the phone with the school and gave them what-for for not noticing I missed the bus, and I got more of the same for not paying attention. This had to be about 1970. After that, they tightened up their procedures, and thankfully nothing happened to me enroute.

But my point is that regardless of school design, multiple entrances, etc., we need effective procedures and checks and balances to ensure that each child is safe and accounted for all day at school. Every school. Every child. We owe our kids that much.

 

[wondering1]

Important to remember that when it happens to your child - that 'rare' turns into a full 100% moo

Of course. But I really don't like it when something in particular happens to someone and then all of a sudden they become a vehement spokesperson for whatever that something is. And it wouldn't change my overall viewpoint on the subject. I have this conversation all the time. And I'm like what? It's important and needs to be solved at all costs because it happened to you?

Of course I would be thorougly devastated if something like this happened to one of my kids. But I can guarantee I'd be blaming the psycho who hurt them, and not the school for not being a high security institution. It aggravates me that my kids have a police officer on campus. They are little kids. They should think to be safe they need to have an armed guard 24/7? Punish the criminals appropriately and let the rest of the world carry on without having to be on guard for lunatics constantly. A few more dp's for child molesters and such would go a long way further than security cameras imo.

 

[LotsaLatte]

nor would it make a difference about what happened to him.

I think I see what you might be saying here.
IF TH had in fact harmed Kyron and IF the school had cameras and IF she was not aware of the cameras......
By the time anyone knew Kyron was actually missing, he may very well have been harmed. In that case, yes TH would probably be caught but it still would not have made a difference as far as Kyron being harmed.

Did I get that right? lol

 

[Donjeta]

I respectfully disagree. Regardless of who abducted Kyron, the fact is that he was abducted while under the custody and care of Skyline School, in loco parentis etc. Simply because a child had never been abducted from the area, or that it "hasn't happened in a long time" doesn't excuse their negligence and laxity. You don't get a pass for something like that. We may never know if Kyron could have been located had the school noticed his absence and alerted Kaine and the police, but it certainly was not to his advantage to give his abductor a several hour headway to remove him and do whatever was done to him, dispose of evidence and establish an alibi. Whether it was stepmom or stranger, those hours were critical to the rescue and recovery of Kyron. Skyline dropped the ball and I believe will pay a high price. But not nearly as high a price as dear Kyron paid.

I agree that noting and alerting the parents about his absence earlier could have been crucial and it should have been done.

Just wondering if he really was under the custody and care of Skyline school if the classes hadn't started yet and he had a parent herd him around the school premises who hadn't handed over the responsibility for him to his teacher or the bus driver that morning?

 

[newone]

No system is 100% fail proof but the fact that no one was doing a head count and making a phone call to check on his whereabouts is negligence (MOO)

 

[nurseratchett]

I don't think anyone except the person, or persons, who took Kyron are responsible for what happened to him. She/He/They alone are the sole perpetrators of this event, and they shoulder the blame alone.

Does the school bear responsibility.....unless it turns out it was a school employee, no I don't think so.

I just don't see why, if the school was told he was to be gone, at an appt, the school should be responsible for what happens to a child in a parents caretaking, whether or not they signed an offical form. If we entrust these teachers with our children for 7 hours a day, why don't we trust them to be honest about who left with a child, and when, and what they have been told by a parent.

Again, if this turns out to not be the case, for example he was taken by a stranger, how would it be any different than a child who is taken out of their front yard, or bedroom, or at the mall with their parent?

I don't see many people blaming Reve Walsh for Adam's murder.

Not to say it's not a learning opportunity for schools across the country, but in all honesty, no, I can't blame them.

MOO

 

[wondering1]

I think I see what you might be saying here.
IF TH had in fact harmed Kyron and IF the school had cameras and IF she was not aware of the cameras......
By the time anyone knew Kyron was actually missing, he may very well have been harmed. In that case, yes TH would probably be caught but it still would not have made a difference as far as Kyron being harmed.

Did I get that right? lol

yes....that's exactly what I mean. And the same applies to a random.

 

[eyes4crime]

Of course. But I really don't like it when something in particular happens to someone and then all of a sudden they become a vehement spokesperson for whatever that something is. And it wouldn't change my overall viewpoint on the subject. I have this conversation all the time. And I'm like what? It's important and needs to be solved at all costs because it happened to you?

Of course I would be thorougly devastated if something like this happened to one of my kids. But I can guarantee I'd be blaming the psycho who hurt them, and not the school for not being a high security institution. It aggravates me that my kids have a police officer on campus. They are little kids. They should think to be safe they need to have an armed guard 24/7? Punish the criminals appropriately and let the rest of the world carry on without having to be on guard for lunatics constantly. A few more dp's for child molesters and such would go a long way further than security cameras imo.

BBM
I can't help but mention that those who have taken the passion from a personal tragedy and turned it into into a gift to help others have my utmost respect - it is a wonderful turn of events for that victim.

Mark Klass comes to mind - his daughter Polly was kidnapped from her bedroom while having a sleep over - she was found murdered. Mark took his devastation and used it to help others. The amber alert, new laws, and changes in present laws have come about from the productive use of victim passion.

:highfive: to all those who have turned their pain into a productive endeavor. :blowkiss: to each and every person who has managed to help others. moo mho

 

[Donjeta]

I agree with both of you, eyes and wondering. What I think is going on is a grieving/ growth/ adjustment process. When something bad happens to someone and they become a vehement spokesperson it tends to be very personal and emotional at first when it's still raw and while they're still in an acute crisis it is not easy for them to see things in perspective and the spokesperson thing may be about helping themselves more than helping others. Then, later on, when the wound has had time to heal as much as it ever will, it may be easier for them to see the bigger picture and actually contribute usefully to helping others and pushing the relevant issues forward.

 

[Mylou]

I was always under the impression that once a child got on school grounds they were the responsiblity of the school ? What happened to bringing a note when you are going to be absent, a phone call from the parent when one is sick, and the school calling home when one doesn't arrive ? Seems that never cost anyone anything, it was the job of the secretary when I went to school. I wonder in the Tori Stafford case, if there was not a camera across the street, would the perps have been caught ? Or would everyone believe her Mother or her Mother's boyfriend were responsible. Seems to me it would save the school's rear end too, if a legitamate member of the family was seen taking the child off school property. Time really was of the essense in Kyron's case. Even in Tori's case, yet it took so long to identify the perp.

 

[akashana]

I agree that noting and alerting the parents about his absence earlier could have been crucial and it should have been done.

Just wondering if he really was under the custody and care of Skyline school if the classes hadn't started yet and he had a parent herd him around the school premises who hadn't handed over the responsibility for him to his teacher or the bus driver that morning?

That's a good point and I agree that it's a gray area. But I guess what I'm saying is that the school had a duty to notice the absence (even on a chaotic day like that) and determine Kyron's status: had he gone home for the day with stepmom, to a doctor's appointment, or was he just MIA? A quick phone call to either Kaine or Terri would have put a different spin on the situation far earlier and could possibly have affected the outcome. At the very least, if Terri was involved and learned school personnel were now aware he was missing, she would have had to alter her agenda (whatever it really was or what she wanted LE to think that it was) and return to the school to deal with the Kyron-is-missing scenario. But the way events played out, whoever the perp is had the benefit of those golden hours when no one knew or cared to find out where Kyron actually was.

 

[AvalonBlue]

I agree with both of you, eyes and wondering. What I think is going on is a grieving/ growth/ adjustment process. When something bad happens to someone and they become a vehement spokesperson it tends to be very personal and emotional at first when it's still raw and while they're still in an acute crisis it is not easy for them to see things in perspective and the spokesperson thing may be about helping themselves more than helping others. Then, later on, when the wound has had time to heal as much as it ever will, it may be easier for them to see the bigger picture and actually contribute usefully to helping others and pushing the relevant issues forward.

Donjeta -- so beautifully said -- thank you.

ITA with all you say.

I believe from my soul that the process you describe so well is what life learning and maturing and finding our purpose is all about.

There is a great book called The Soul's Code, by James Hillman, a Neo-Jungian therapist/author, that is written in this vein. When I read the book back in the mid 90's, it provided a healing expansion in my thinking as a person, and as a therapist.

Basically, Hillman's philosophy is that we come into the world like an acorn -- an acorn that knows, at the soul level, that our destiny is to become a mighty oak.

The things that happen to us in our lives help us to be brave enough to grow into that mighty oak.

Hillman's philosophy does not diminish the validity of the pain we go through -- he presents a bigger picture. We have the experiences we need to have in order to grow into who we came here to be.

A story I always remember from the book -- although I'm sure I don't have all the details totally accurate right this minute -- is about a famous bullfighter.

Because this man had a history of "being a Mama's boy" when he was a child -- spending as much time as he could in the kitchen and elsewhere with his mother -- other therapists discussing this man's background were espousing, "Well, no WONDER he grew up to be a bullfighter! He was expressing a reaction to his early experiences as a withdrawn sissy!"

Hillman begged to differ. In his opinion, the famous bullfighter had to be as close to his mother's knee as possible during his childhood.

The "acorn" within the future bullfighter's soul knew he had come to face extreme danger and had to exhibit great bravery. So, of course he would find all the comfort and safety he could in the kitchen with his Mama while he had the chance!

I'm not sayin' I think bullfighters are cool and ought to be going around harassing innocent bulls -- I'm just making a point I think is valuable to consider when we look at our life experiences in terms of a "yes" from the Universe about the meaning and purpose of these life events, and not succumb to feeling like our role in life is that of a victim. This in no way is meant to diminish the pain we go through when we are "victimized." Being victimized is about an experience of extreme pain -- and then moving through a process of healing -- being victimized is NOT a statement about who we really are.

So, thank you, Donjeta, for your post inspiring me to expound!
__________________

 

[teacher 3]

Yes, the school does bear some responsibility. I am a teacher and I can tell you that over the years I have seen many changes in security in schools. I teach in an inner city school in a beautiful area. Last year , with a new principal, all exterior doors were locked and one has to be buzzed in. Then the parent goes to the office and signs in. At first some of us were taken aback with the change but the principal said while the children are in school we are responsible for them. We had many events in our school, parents were always invited and events were during the day as well as at night. All parents who came signed in. If parents take a child out during the day they sign the child out as well. Times have changed and I guess we have to be more cautious I would imagine the faculty are taking this so hard. I don't even know Kyron and I cry just thinking about what might have happened to him.