Does someone besides TH know what happened to Kyron?

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree. She was under a lot of pressure at that point to appear cooperative. I think she may have convinced herself that she would pass. I know a lot of guilty people have done just that. Once she didn't pass she couldn't very well refuse to take another one and look even more guilty. Obviously it was with great reluctence that she agreed to the second one and even then she walked out before it began. By the time number three came around she probably felt she had no choice. Same with her not hiring an attorney. She knew that wouldn't look good. She was trying to convince Kaine that she was innocent. Once it was clear that he was beyond convincing she hired a lawyer in no time.

I think she hired an attorney when she knew the police was not believing her.

She is no dummy. She knew she always had a choice. All she had to say was " I have told the truth and I am not doing a poly again so you can tell me I have failed." If she watches cop shows then she knows LE can legally lie.

On topic:

But I do think whomever took Kyron only involved one person at the time he disappeared but others may be involved now if he is indeed alive which I pray that he is.

IMO

 

[angelmom]

Regarding Terri taking the polygraphs. Ummm Question? How does she say NO thanks anyways? The family stood beside her, stated that they belive in her. If guilty she has to take it anyways. How do you tell you loved ones, ummm yeah I know, I'm innocent and all so you will all understand why even though YOU ALL took the ploygraphs I simply can NOT. You understand.

Her taking the polygraph doesn't = a good sign to me. IMOO

If she didn't how does she is explain it to the rest of the family. All of them that passed BTW.

I guess with all respect I don't see how her "agreeing" to taking the polygraph means she is innocent.

Lots of people refuse polys. All you have to do is say, "I will do everything I can to help, but I don't trust them." Actually, a smart person would say, "I'll take it, even though I have no faith in them." Then when you fail you can say, "I told you so! They are unreliable b/c I am totally innocent."

I would like to think that I would just take one without a doubt, but when I hear stories about innocent people who fail them and how it causes the investigation to focus on the wrong person, I have second thoughts. Plus, any lawyer would tell you not to. So I wonder.


PS...sorry about getting the number of Terri's kids wrong in my earlier post. I went back and corrected it and noted that I had changed it, only to avoid confusion.

 

[Day Dreamer]

I thought about this tonight for a bit. First we see this article. Then we see the notorious "sexting"/affair article.

Within the article about the affair bombshell there is reference to texts.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24229196/detail.html



The above was bolded by me.

Yes I know that this is an article outlining the contact that was to have gone on between Mr. C and TMH.

Here is what I had a thought about though~ could she have been texting anyone else as well (it doesn't have to another man, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was---but all the same anyone of either gender) about this case.

Now that person (if they exist) knows that LE has seen their texts and they better step forward. So if the "source" quoted from the first article was LE and then the info was released about the number of texts found---that could be seen as a strategic move on LE's part.

If that is in fact what happened. IMHO if LE is going to orchestrate anything with media they aren't going to use the Parents as a mouthpiece, they are far more clever than that.

Anyway--it was just a thought. That Mr. C doesn't have to be the one that TMH may have shared info about what happened to Kyron.

JMHO.

BBM I think it would be very possible that Terri obtained a prepaid phone that would be harder to track back to her if she were plotting w/ an accomplice ... as well as possibly having the accomplice obtain a prepaid. Does anyone know if you can text from a prepaid phone? I wonder if her bank records have been checked to see if a prepaid phone was purchased. She could have used cash; but, it is worth checking out.

However, if LE was able to obtain texts to the landscaper it would appear that Terri did not try to cover her cell tracks (unless the texts were recovered from the landscapers cell history). If the texts were recovered from the landscaper ... IF she used a prepaid phone ... it would be possible to track that down.

 

[grandmaj]

Talk about polygraphs here.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108990"]Kaine talks about 3 polys for TH - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Stay on topic on this thread please.

Does anyone besides TH know what happened to Kyron?

 

[Day Dreamer]

I've said this before but I firmly believe that LE knows everyone TH has talked to in at least the last year, by phone or computer. They found a landscaper she had 8 months ago. I am sure they went through all her records and verified any contacts she had. They found a landscaper that had responded to an ad she placed. They are looking closely at everyone. That shows me that they are looking for an accomplice. They were also over MC almost immediately. They shows me that they are continuing to monitor her every contact. I have no doubt that if she did have help with Kyron she had to communicate with them somehow and phone or computer are most likely. I'm sure she didn't mail a letter to them. If there were someone she was in contact with on June 3rd or 4th I have no doubt they have spoken with them. If there were an accomplice LE would have an idea who it was. I don't believe there is an accomplice, only the hope there is by KH and DY because, as someone said, that is Kyron's only hope. If TH did this she could not have hiden him away and come back to take care of him after the abduction because she was under constant monitoring afterwards. Someone would have to be feeding him, etc. I wish I could jump on the accomplice bandwagon but I just can't. LE has been too sharp to let anyone slip by.

BBM IF Terri was really into forensics or shows like CSI she may have obtained a prepaid cell phone for contacting an accomplice. IIRC, those phones do not have to be registered. You can pay cash to purchase and activate w/out giving any personal information. IF she did this, she would probably have made sure the accomplice had a prepaid cell as well.

Just grasping at straws here ...

 

[Day Dreamer]

Imagine this:

Terri had nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance. When she is asked to take a poly the first time, of course she gladly goes and answers truthfully. But she fails.

We know this is possible. We know there are people who fail when they are telling the truth and people who pass while they lie through their teeth. While LDTs may be an invaluable investigating tool, they are nowhere near perfect, which is why they are inadmissible in court.

So, she fails. She offers or they ask for a second one, and she agrees. But while they are telling her to stay calm and just tell the truth, she is getting more and more panicky about the test. What if they think she hurt Kyron? She goes to the test but can feel her heart racing and she's on the verge of tears. Before the test starts she flees, just knowing she'll fail again. She can't face it. (Maybe a lawyer has already told her she should never have agreed to take one.)

Respectfully snipped ...

When administering a polygraph, don't they go over all of the questions they are going to ask prior to hooking up the person? If so, I wonder if Terri was confronted about the murder for hire plot. That could very well explain why she walked out.

ETA: grandmaj, sorry, I just saw your post above about using the polygraph thread. Do I need to delete this or move it?

 

[grandmaj]

No let's leave it and move on from here please.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Sooo...here's a thought I just had that is kind way out in left field....

What about TH's mom? We know that she told the media all kind of inaccurate info in the days following Kyron's disappearance. Many of her comments were defensive of her daughter, TH. Could it be that she knows something? Could she have been an accomplice? Or could TH have confided in her privately in those early hours after Kyron went missing? I mean, she could have just been regurgitating what TH told her. Or she could have just been clueless. But maybe......

There's an elephant in the room, but pointing it out is likely to just get posts pulled. I'll give it a shot anyway, prefacing it with a disclaimer that I think there's only a small chance this is really the "other person" being referred to by Kaine (and perhaps by LE to Kaine), and that I think any "other person" is definitely in *addition* to Terri, not instead of Terri.

For what person, who had an obvious motive, was a false alibi given by a family member to the media within the first 24 hours of Kyron's disappearance?

If you've been following the story from the beginning, you should know the answer immediately, and also see why LE wouldn't be saying a word about it publicly, and why Terri might well be inclined to protect this person even if doing so precludes cutting her own losses by confessing everything she knows.

Based on the obviously limited information we're privy to, I'd only give it about a 10% chance that this person was involved in Kyron's disappearance. But just looking objectively at all the evidence, it's definitely a possibility that LE has considered, and could still be considering if they have some information pointing in that direction that we don't have.

 

[cluciano63]

I think it is wishful thinking that more than one person is involved, unless it is Terri who is the other person and she is covering for someone very close to her. But I can't imagine who that person would be that LE would not have been able to locate and probably get to talk by now. The average person, confronted by the FBI, is not likely to hold up very long if presented with any evidence at all.

Terri may be holding up to that pressure due to having no knowledge of the crime, or because the person who hurt Kyron is someone she wants to protect (which could easily be herself.) It is hard for me to fathom two or more such people who are so tough to crack.

I have tried and tried to imagine a reasonable scenario which would have Kyron be still alive and I cannot. I do not believe in the theory that Terri sold Kyron (there would be a trail of some kind-the internet is where you find such contacts, I would imagine) or that she gave him to some nice family (same reasoning and even less likely to me). I can only imagine that if Terri is involved and someone else knows about it, it is either someone she has to protect no matter what, or she told a family member since June 4th.

But I still can't make either of those theories work to Kyron's advantage.

I just can't yet believe Terri harmed Kyron on purpose, if she did anything, but I can see her being so terrified by Sat. AM the 5th, when the FBI showed up, to be too afraid to confess to whatever had happened. And then the case kept getting bigger and bigger and she grew even more terrified.

But of course, she could be guilty and just stone-cold. Or she could be guilty only of not making sure Kyron got into his classroom and that has colored all of her actions since, if she is punishing herself, by "acting out."

Rambling a bit, but still on topic I think. I've just been thinking about this case hourly since I learned of it, and can't imagine that we might never know.

 

[shorty42404]

Ok these are my thoughts about TH and someone else being involved (in the case that she is guilty)

-If the MFH plot is true, she was not able to do that job herself, so if she planned on doing something with Kyron she probably had help with that also

-Her history with the way she has pursuaded men to do things for her (sexual overtures with landscaper and MC)

-Terri had baby K with her, how could she do anything with Kyron with a little one in tow, namely inside the school when a lot of people are around (assuming Kyron went missing while he was in school)?

-Kaine believes someone else was involved and he knows a LOT more than we do and if his belief is based on "briefings" from LE than it's most likely that is the case

Praying there will be a break in this case SOON!

 

[pinkpuddytat]

I think it is wishful thinking that more than one person is involved, unless it is Terri who is the other person and she is covering for someone very close to her. But I can't imagine who that person would be that LE would not have been able to locate and probably get to talk by now. The average person, confronted by the FBI, is not likely to hold up very long if presented with any evidence at all.

Terri may be holding up to that pressure due to having no knowledge of the crime, or because the person who hurt Kyron is someone she wants to protect (which could easily be herself.)

If it's the person I suggested above, what makes you think LE didn't locate and talk to that person a long time ago, and conclude that that person was very likely involved (or even got a confession of some involvement from that person)? Would they have told us? No. Would they have told Kaine? Very likely, yes. Would they have told the people that person was living with at the time, but is no longer living with? Quite possibly -- they've gone pretty quiet in recent weeks and the population of their household did drop by one (though it may have just gone back up by a different one).

Or she could be guilty only of not making sure Kyron got into his classroom and that has colored all of her actions since, if she is punishing herself, by "acting out."

I've seen this idea advanced by several posters, and it makes no sense at all to me. Why on earth would she (or anyone) think she needed to escort him to the door of his classroom? This is a child who normally rode the school bus to school every day, and had been doing so all year. Bus drivers don't escort children to their classrooms, and neither do teachers or other school staff at any normal school, except on the first day or two, and for "special" students. Kids get off the bus and go their classrooms on their own steam every day. If staff sees a child wandering the halls or grounds, they'll go find out what's up and presumably escort the child to his/her classroom, but this would be an unusual event, not something that happens regularly. You would think teachers in early elementary grades would be pretty diligent about taking attendance, and reporting unexpected absences to the office, but we've got pretty good evidence that attendance taking and reporting was a pretty informal affair at this school.

 

[cluciano63]

If it's the person I suggested above, what makes you think LE didn't locate and talk to that person a long time ago, and conclude that that person was very likely involved (or even got a confession of some involvement from that person)? Would they have told us? No. Would they have told Kaine? Very likely, yes. Would they have told the people that person was living with at the time, but is no longer living with? Quite possibly -- they've gone pretty quiet in recent weeks and the population of their household did drop by one (though it may have just gone back up by a different one).



I've seen this idea advanced by several posters, and it makes no sense at all to me. Why on earth would she (or anyone) think she needed to escort him to the door of his classroom? This is a child who normally rode the school bus to school every day, and had been doing so all year. Bus drivers don't escort children to their classrooms, and neither do teachers or other school staff at any normal school, except on the first day or two, and for "special" students. Kids get off the bus and go their classrooms on their own steam every day. If staff sees a child wandering the halls or grounds, they'll go find out what's up and presumably escort the child to his/her classroom, but this would be an unusual event, not something that happens regularly. You would think teachers in early elementary grades would be pretty diligent about taking attendance, and reporting unexpected absences to the office, but we've got pretty good evidence that attendance taking and reporting was a pretty informal affair at this school.

I don't think she should have walked him to his classroom-but if someone is innocent they would be beating themselves up about it anyway; that is what I meant, a hindsight kind of thing.

 

[Adrienne37]

There's an elephant in the room, but pointing it out is likely to just get posts pulled. I'll give it a shot anyway, prefacing it with a disclaimer that I think there's only a small chance this is really the "other person" being referred to by Kaine (and perhaps by LE to Kaine), and that I think any "other person" is definitely in *addition* to Terri, not instead of Terri.

For what person, who had an obvious motive, was a false alibi given by a family member to the media within the first 24 hours of Kyron's disappearance?

If you've been following the story from the beginning, you should know the answer immediately, and also see why LE wouldn't be saying a word about it publicly, and why Terri might well be inclined to protect this person even if doing so precludes cutting her own losses by confessing everything she knows.

Based on the obviously limited information we're privy to, I'd only give it about a 10% chance that this person was involved in Kyron's disappearance. But just looking objectively at all the evidence, it's definitely a possibility that LE has considered, and could still be considering if they have some information pointing in that direction that we don't have.

Great post!!! Your post mirrors mine exactly.

 

[Cher352]

BBM I think it would be very possible that Terri obtained a prepaid phone that would be harder to track back to her if she were plotting w/ an accomplice ... as well as possibly having the accomplice obtain a prepaid. Does anyone know if you can text from a prepaid phone? I wonder if her bank records have been checked to see if a prepaid phone was purchased. She could have used cash; but, it is worth checking out.

However, if LE was able to obtain texts to the landscaper it would appear that Terri did not try to cover her cell tracks (unless the texts were recovered from the landscapers cell history). If the texts were recovered from the landscaper ... IF she used a prepaid phone ... it would be possible to track that down.

BBM

Not sure about all prepaid ones but I know you can with the Virgin and Tmobile ones. My teen has had both.

 

[SmoothOperator]

BBM I think it would be very possible that Terri obtained a prepaid phone that would be harder to track back to her if she were plotting w/ an accomplice ... as well as possibly having the accomplice obtain a prepaid. Does anyone know if you can text from a prepaid phone? I wonder if her bank records have been checked to see if a prepaid phone was purchased. She could have used cash; but, it is worth checking out.

However, if LE was able to obtain texts to the landscaper it would appear that Terri did not try to cover her cell tracks (unless the texts were recovered from the landscapers cell history). If the texts were recovered from the landscaper ... IF she used a prepaid phone ... it would be possible to track that down.

Just am going to answer a couple of your questions.

1) Yes, you can most definitely text on prepaid phones and yes they can be much more difficult to trace, as in if it was paid with cash and then registered under false name and info, it would make it very difficult to find especially if she only used it to contact ppl that are not involved whatsoever in the case(cannot be traced to TMH in anyway otherwise they would find the pre paids cell # on that persons bill) But if the fact was that with cash she purchased a pre paid phone for the specific reason to keep in contact with say an accomplice(say they both used their pre paid phone ONLY to communicate btwn the two of them, neither calling, texting, etc from those phones to absolutely any other phone numbers) who also paid with cash for their pre paid phone that indeed could make it quite difficult for LE to find


2) is in reference to your statement saying Terri must not have tried to cover her tracks well if they found all the texts, etc on her "regular"(not pre paid phone) That is NOT necessarily the case. Most ppl do not know that even though you completely delete all evidence of a text msg from your cell phone, no matter when the records/monthly bill are looked at it still has every single phone # that was texted, etc from that phone, and most do not know that it even goes a step further that not only is the # of whom they text available but the cell phone companies can print every single text word for word(even the deleted ones)along with also downloading and printing out every single pic or video that had ever been on the cell phone (yes even if they had been deleted from the phone).. All of this info I just mentioned is available not just to LE but rather anyone whose name is on the cell phone can at any time have copies of every single word of every single text to and from that cell along with ALL pics and video...

Hope that helped answer some of your inquiries from your above post... ;-)

 

[Day Dreamer]

2) is in reference to your statement saying Terri must not have tried to cover her tracks well if they found all the texts, etc on her "regular"(not pre paid phone) That is NOT necessarily the case. Most ppl do not know that even though you completely delete all evidence of a text msg from your cell phone, no matter when the records/monthly bill are looked at it still has every single phone # that was texted, etc from that phone, and most do not know that it even goes a step further that not only is the # of whom they text available but the cell phone companies can print every single text word for word(even the deleted ones)along with also downloading and printing out every single pic or video that had ever been on the cell phone (yes even if they had been deleted from the phone).. All of this info I just mentioned is available not just to LE but rather anyone whose name is on the cell phone can at any time have copies of every single word of every single text to and from that cell along with ALL pics and video...

Hope that helped answer some of your inquiries from your above post... ;-)

Respectfully snipped

You are correct that nothing is ever permanently deleted. The cell company would have a record as well as any memory card inside of the phone. What I meant by her not covering her tracks was that she was obviously not using a prepaid to sext the landscaper & MC ... unless they were taken from the landscaper & MC's phone records. I know that LE can obtain texts from the cell phone company.

BBM I'm not sure what the laws are in Oregon. I am in NC. I recently had a friend try to get copies of texts her husband was deleting (last week) from the cell phone company. They told her she had to have a subpoena to get them. She called an attorney; but, they told her they could not get access to the texts unless there was a pending court case. So, yes, it would be readily available to LE but possibly not to anyone else.

Of course, while helping my friend, I did find that you can purchase software that will retrieve deleted messages & photos from a cell phone.

 

[BeanE]

FOX 12: You've all said recently that you think someone else besides Terri may have been involved in Kyron's disappearance. Do you have any theories about who that may be?

Kaine Horman: currently I do not although i do believe that it is someone that Kyron has met before, whether I know of the person or they were only a friend of Terri's.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24283158/detail.html

Not sure if that was already posted.

 

[cluciano63]

Poor Kaine...he has to think that Terri has a friend involved, someone who might care for Kyron during all this time...

 

[maystamper]

A couple of questions that maybe someone can answer for me:
Does anyone know who the worker/staff member was that left the school on June 4th and has not returned?
Were the glasses that were shown a replica or were they really Kyron's?

 

[BeanE]

A couple of questions that maybe someone can answer for me:
Does anyone know who the worker/staff member was that left the school on June 4th and has not returned?
Were the glasses that were shown a replica or were they really Kyron's?

We have a thread where you can ask questions about case information. It's very handy:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106888"]Kyron Horman Q&A ***No Discussion*** - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


But I've never seen that a worker/staff left the school on June 4. Do you have a link for that info?

The glasses are a replica. You can see them and read what LE said about them on the Sheriff's website here:
http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom.htm