Dr. Lee's Book

[Ivy]

Hi, Nehemiah. On p 44 of PMPT (pb) it says:

"...White said he was sure the window was closed but unlatched. After he left the train room, he turned right, into the boiler room. At the back of the room, he said, he saw a door to what the Ramseys called the wine cellar. He turned the closed wooden latch and opened the door. The room was pitch-black, he said. He didn't enter, and he saw nothing. When he couldn't find a light switch, he closed the door and went back upstairs."

imo

Edited to add that I seem to recall that the light switch was way down low on the wall, which is why Fleet White couldn't find it.

 

[BrotherMoon]

From a 1992 profilers' report.

http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/cjrp/sadistic.html

IMO We should be looking for a killer, and I can only hope there is an ongoing investigation that's direction has moved away from this family.

Sex, sex, sex, sex, blah, blah, blah, blah. Take a look at the kundalini. There's more than one chakra, and guess what: they're all connected; self determination, sex, power, love, prophecy, revelation, God.

We sould be looking for a human, dope.

 

[Nehemiah]

Hi, Nehemiah. On p 44 of PMPT (pb) it says:

"...White said he was sure the window was closed but unlatched. After he left the train room, he turned right, into the boiler room. At the back of the room, he said, he saw a door to what the Ramseys called the wine cellar. He turned the closed wooden latch and opened the door. The room was pitch-black, he said. He didn't enter, and he saw nothing. When he couldn't find a light switch, he closed the door and went back upstairs."

imo

Edited to add that I seem to recall that the light switch was way down low on the wall, which is why Fleet White couldn't find it.

Thanks, Ivy. I remember that now.

 

[halycon]

I just finished it. Lots of good information there. I learned a lot.

 

[sissi]

Sex, sex, sex, sex, blah, blah, blah, blah. Take a look at the kundalini. There's more than one chakra, and guess what: they're all connected; self determination, sex, power, love, prophecy, revelation, God.

We sould be looking for a human, dope.

I just noticed that you read the link,thanks!

Ya' read,ya' learn!

 

[twinkiesmom]

Dr. Lee is not a medical doctor....Is there a medical doctor who says the head blow came first?

Wecht has good reasons behind why he thinks the head blow came after the strangulation. There wasn't enough blood inside the brain for the size of the fracture.

I looked at the autopsy report...It was like an 8 inch skull fracture with about a small test tube worth of blood inside the brain. This could only be accounted for by the blood flow to the brain having been cut off first.

 

[BlueCrab]

Dr. Lee is not a medical doctor....Is there a medical doctor who says the head blow came first?

Wecht has good reasons behind why he thinks the head blow came after the strangulation. There wasn't enough blood inside the brain for the size of the fracture.

I looked at the autopsy report...It was like an 8 inch skull fracture with about a small test tube worth of blood inside the brain. This could only be accounted for by the blood flow to the brain having been cut off first.

Twinkiesmom,

You are correct. The strangulation likely occurred first.

In addition to only approximately two teaspoons of blood on the brain, there were petechial hemorrhages above and below the cord imbedded in the neck, and petechial hemorrhages on the eyelids. These petechial hemorrhages could not have formed if JonBenet was dead and the heart had already stopped pumping blood into the arteries.

JMO

 

[twizzler333]

And you have to wonder why did the person (whoever it was) do this after the fact? Why did they bash her head after they obviously had choked her already? Unless it was all the flow of the events- maybe they were in the process of the strangulation and as she was losing consciousness or pretty much already dead, they were in distress over what they were doing, feeling frustruated and somehow picked her body up to some degree and slammed it down striking the head.

It is peculiar.

 

[TLynn]

Hard to decipher which came first. Albeit the head blow was extremely violent and the strangulation had to have happened quickly thereafter (if it did come first).

Arteries have blood in them - a heart does not have to be pumping if the artery bursts and the blood "lets" (is released).

Lee is quite credible...so is Wecht. When it comes to experts, it's easy to go with the one that fits your theory.

I believe it is Wecht who implies John Ramsey killed JonBenet in a sexual game.

JonBenet's urine stain is on the front of her longjohns - if she released upon death - then she would've died on her stomach.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Lee and Wecht are completely different experts. Lee is a forensic scientist without a medical degree. He's your blood splatter specialist, your criminologist. He's not the expert to turn to on the body itself or autopsy findings.

And Lee has lost a lot of credibility in my eyes since the Kathleen Peterson trial (too much blood for a beating).

Have any other MDs weighed in on this case (Kobelosky (sp?))?

 

[twinkiesmom]

<<Arteries have blood in them - a heart does not have to be pumping if the artery bursts and the blood "lets" (is released).>>

This statement does not make any sense to me. JB did not have an aneurysm burst.

She was strangled, and the blood supply was cut off to her brain. This could have occurred via pressure on the carotid artery or (as Wecht suggested) pressure on the vagus nerve (which controls all the brain signals for the vitals). The killer may not have intended to kill her but unknowingly cut off signals from the vagus nerve. In his panic, he may have struck the head blow to prevent her being able to report him. (This theory assumes it's a him and the attack was sexual in motive.)

Her heart was likely still beating, but she was unconscious. The killer probably felt a faint pulse and finished her off with the head blow, not knowing the strangulation was already (or would shortly be) lethal.

 

[BrotherMoon]

Her heart was likely still beating, but she was unconscious. The killer probably felt a faint pulse and finished her off with the head blow, not knowing the strangulation was already (or would shortly be) lethal.

Why not just continue strangling? Why switch to different method? If your m.o. is strangling, why change?

It looks like there were atleast two attacks to the neck and bruising in a different area from where the cord ended up. It looks like the strangling took time and effort, i.e., was difficult. Whereas the head blow was a one time shot, clean, no miss, no lasceration. All that means the strangulation was done to a moving/resisting body, while the head blow was done to a stationary easy target.

I think this means the initial strangulation was functional, the head blow was meaningful to the perp. The lack of lasceration suggests the head was covered or the object that struck her was padded. There was no such effort to protect the neck.

I think the initial strangulation has to be separated from the final positioning of the cord and the head blow, the former being destructive, while the later two are creative in nature.

Remember we are dealing with a psychotic.

 

[txsvicki]

From a 1992 profilers' report.

http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/cjrp/sadistic.html

IMO We should be looking for a killer, and I can only hope there is an ongoing investigation that's direction has moved away from this family.

Dear God, I just wandered into this forum and read the angelfire site. I may not be able to sleep again. It's the scariest thing I could ever imagine. It sounds like the btk murderer but JonBenet's murder doesn't seem to fit in completely with this scenario.

 

[TressaRing28]

Dear God, I just wandered into this forum and read the angelfire site. I may not be able to sleep again. It's the scariest thing I could ever imagine. It sounds like the btk murderer but JonBenet's murder doesn't seem to fit in completely with this scenario.

Hey TX,
Thanks for dropping in, ya'll come back now hear?

Seriously, we are happy to have new and different opinion's. Please drop by again.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Brother Moon,
My guess is that JB was already dead, but the killer in feeling for a pulse mistook his own pulse for JB's. (This is common for non medical types.)

Going along with the family accident theory...what if JB were suffocated accidentally and the garrotting and head blow were staging?

In this scenario, it is assumed that JB was finished off because the stager may have believed she would be better off dead than brain damaged (from PMPT, I believe).

If I recall correctly, the garotting and head blow occurred from the back, making it less likely to be a thrill kill.

Going along with the intruder theory, JB would have been finished off so she could not identify her assailant.

 

[KATKAT19691]

That is pretty bad, is no one safe.
Welcome Tx. As Tressa said welcome and ya'll come back, we'll leave the light on.

Kat
IMO

 

[BlueCrab]

Dear God, I just wandered into this forum and read the angelfire site. I may not be able to sleep again. It's the scariest thing I could ever imagine. It sounds like the btk murderer but JonBenet's murder doesn't seem to fit in completely with this scenario.

Txsvicki,

There is one JonBenet murder theory that would likely fit the AngelFire site. The theory even includes "a small foreign faction" and a "lack of respect for the country that John Ramsey's "bussiness" serves.

At Colorado State University in Boulder there was a 29-member politically active group called Asian Pacific American Coalition (APAC) that seemed particularly interested in social activism, including injustices to Asian women in the U.S. who were being raped and murdered.

APAC's meetings usually consisted of guest speakers who sometimes advocated extreme measures of activism. APAC mysteriously disbanded immediately following the murder of JonBenet.

APAC's connection to the JonBenet Ramsey case is by way of one of its members, Nathan Inouye. Nathan was Glen and Susan Stine's teenage college student live-in caregiver for their son Doug. Nathan continued living at the Stine's house even after the Ramseys and the Paughs moved in with them for five months. A very low profile has been kept on Nathan Inouye, despite his closeness to the Stines and the Ramsey family. For instance, although Larry Schiller's name index in PMPT contains 500 names, Nathan is not mentioned even once.

After graduating from CU, Nathan spent several years in Kingston, Jamaica in the Peace Corps, then moved back to his home state of California to take post-graduate studies at UCLA. Nathan now teaches at a California high school.

The behaviors of the APAC group at CU has always bothered me. Did the group have a loose cannon among its 29 members who, incited by perceived social injustices against Asian women in the USA, use high-profile JonBenet to send a hate message?

JMO

 

[sissi]

Txsvicki,

There is one JonBenet murder theory that would likely fit the AngelFire site. The theory even includes "a small foreign faction" and a "lack of respect for the country that John Ramsey's "bussiness" serves.

At Colorado State University in Boulder there was a 29-member politically active group called Asian Pacific American Coalition (APAC) that seemed particularly interested in social activism, including injustices to Asian women in the U.S. who were being raped and murdered.

APAC's meetings usually consisted of guest speakers who sometimes advocated extreme measures of activism. APAC mysteriously disbanded immediately following the murder of JonBenet.

APAC's connection to the JonBenet Ramsey case is by way of one of its members, Nathan Inouye. Nathan was Glen and Susan Stine's teenage college student live-in caregiver for their son Doug. Nathan continued living at the Stine's house even after the Ramseys and the Paughs moved in with them for five months. A very low profile has been kept on Nathan Inouye, despite his closeness to the Stines and the Ramsey family. For instance, although Larry Schiller's name index in PMPT contains 500 names, Nathan is not mentioned even once.

After graduating from CU, Nathan spent several years in Kingston, Jamaica in the Peace Corps, then moved back to his home state of California to take post-graduate studies at UCLA. Nathan now teaches at a California high school.

The behaviors of the APAC group at CU has always bothered me. Did the group have a loose cannon among its 29 members who, incited by perceived social injustices against Asian women in the USA, use high-profile JonBenet to send a hate message?

JMO

Wow BlueCrab!! I commend you on your ability to consider an alternative, and a "not bad" one at that. Tell more if you can ,as there is very little information available on NI.
Did he at any time sit with Jonbenet in the days preceeding her death?
Was he alone with her at any time while the other kids watched tv?
Did he show a special interest in her, helping her with little projects,etc.
Did he attend the party of the 23rd?

 

[twizzler333]

BlueCrab- that is definitely a more believable theory IMO. I still do not see the Ramsey's as having covered up though. BUT this theory certainly makes more sense than some of the others I have read here. (A lot more sense!)

Besides, I was reading on the Blagg case forum here at WS and I think it was lisafremont who put information from a FBI profiler that stated that 99% of the time when a person who is intimate or close to the person they kill they remove the body from the premises. That is something I have said all along that if the R's did this, they would not write this ridiculous lengthy ransom note and THEN leave her to be found in the basement! They would have taken her wrapped up in something and buried her before they would have left here down there in the basement knowing they would find her there and link this to them.

Think about the crimes we do know were committed by loved ones, what did they do? They moved the bodies away from the home (and in very rare cases that I have read- buried it very, very good in the yard or under the house) they did not leave them lying in the floor somewhere that could easily be found.

 

[BlueCrab]

Wow BlueCrab!! I commend you on your ability to consider an alternative, and a "not bad" one at that. Tell more if you can ,as there is very little information available on NI.
Did he at any time sit with Jonbenet in the days preceeding her death?
Was he alone with her at any time while the other kids watched tv?
Did he show a special interest in her, helping her with little projects,etc.
Did he attend the party of the 23rd?

Sissi,

I know a few more things but don't know much more about Nathan Inouye because it appears his name has been purged from many documents and publications.

For instance, I mentioned in the above post that Nathan's name wasn't in PMPT's name index at all. And it seems as though Doug Stine's name was also purged from PMPT in all places except one, on page 76. Yet, Doug Stine is listed nine times in PMPT's name index.

I attribute this to Schiller purging Doug's name in the text to obey the Colorado Children's Code and the court's gag order (the grand jury had just permanently adjourned, and Schiller had to scramble to meet the gag order that was immediately imposed, but they forgot about Doug's name listed nine times in the book's name index).

It's interesting to note that author Larry Schiller, after researching this book for one year, has stated that he included only about 10% of what he knows about this case. I'm sure Schiller knows more about Nathan Inouye and Doug Stine, but is unable to write about it.

JMO