Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

[Tssiemer]

I'm sure Burke didn't get near the same amount of attention JBR did. Maybe he was happy when she died.


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[madeleine]

wth??
http://www.etonline.com/news/198005...es_of_who_killed_her_i_know_we_were_suspects/

"I was just going through methodically every square inch of that basement, and I opened the door, and there's JonBenet,"John recalls, adding that at that point, he didn't know she was dead. "I had this rush of 'Thank God I found her,' and it was just this overwhelming sense of joy, that I had found my child."


"She looked very peaceful," he added.

PEACEFUL????

 

[madeleine]

I found some of JR/s comments more troubling than BR/s smiling and smirking or whatever it is that he does.He definitely was coached to put on a more serious face when answering the heavy questions and replying absolutely not.Have to rewatch episode 2 but IMO there was only one question to which he replied absolutely not and was laughing from his heart, that was genuine emotion IMO.forgot what the question was .the rest of the absolutely nots reminded me of OJ/s housekeeper.whenever she was in trouble she was coached to answer I dont recall.

 

[expat79]

The most logical explanation for the flashlight is that it was not the murder weapon, but instead used to maneuver around the house late at night while writing the ransom note and staging a crime scene.

Didn't a neighbor report "strange lights" coming from the house? If the lights were switched on (and multiple neighbors reporting it to police) that would have cast even more suspicion on the Ramseys.

 

[minazoe]

Why did he need the flashlight? Jon Benet's door was closed per Patsy. Burke's room was through a playroom, and it would've been easy to turn the light on in there on the way to Burke's room. This is very, very suspicious to me.

Another thing: John stated he carried Jon Benet to bed. He also stated he helped Burke with "the model" AFTER they got home from the party. I believe elsewhere it was stated that both kids went to bed. Does anyone here have an idea of what happened?

I think JR put BR to bed with the flashlight after the death so as not to throw the lights on and potentially be noticed by the neighbors.

 

[YouWho]

On my Facebook feed just a bit ago and I thought it was interesting.
It's Dr. P. on Facebook, discussing his interview with BR and his opinions about BR.

https://www.facebook.com/drphilshow/videos/10154528250283909/

Thanks for the link. I read a couple dozen comments and couldn't hack it anymore. That A & E Ramsey puff piece has done it's intended damage.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If the ransom note was real then no loving parent wound call the cops straight away when somebody was holding your daughter hostage and could kill her at any moment which the note implied. They completely ignored the note because they knew nobody was watching them and Jon Benet was already dead.

IMO

By the same token if you think this way then Charles Lindbergh would have had to murder his own child when he received the ransom note with his little son missing since he immediately contacted the police even though in the ransom note he was advised to not contact the police.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/lindbergh/sfeature/crime.html

LE always urges families of kidnapped victims to immediately contact them for they are far more capable of locating kidnapped children than parents.

I think that assumption of 'they wouldn't contact the police' comes from fictional movies showing the parents finding the kidnapped child without contacting the police and is an unrealistic view of reality.

 

[Ellie9]

Regarding the flashlight.
Let's follow what we know to be true or at least evidence points to it being true:
1.)Flashlight is now been linked by BR to be in JR hands on the night of the murder as he put him to bed with it.
If this is true...
How did the flashlight wind up being possibly the murder weapon?.....
2.) Did JR leave the flashlight at BR bedside?
3.) Did JR take flashlight back upstairs to his bedroom?
4.) Where was the flashlight between the moment JR put him to bed and when it was found in kitchen (wiped completely clean of ALL prints including JR's and even the batteries were cleaned!)

This is where the truth lies.
1.) If JR took it to his bedroom then that means the KILLER had to go up to his room and remove flashlight and take it downstairs, use it as a weapon, then go back up to kitchen and clean it completely.
2.) If JR left it at BR bedside, then that means one of three things happened.
A.) BR took flashlight on his adventure downstairs and left it. Leaving the intruder to find it and use it as a murder weapon. (Wouldn't an intruder bring their own flashlight??)
B.) Intruder went all the way to BR's room to get the flashlight, use it as a murder weapon, then wipe clean of prints and leave in kitchen.
C.) BR took flashlight on his adventure and ended up using flashlight to harm sister, either accidently or deliberately.

OR the flashlight grew arms and legs, committed the crime itself and wiped itself down and placed itself in kitchen. With the bowl of pineapple and tea that MAYBE BR ate with his sister.

There's where I'm at right now.
Any other ideas regarding how the flashlight could've made its way to possibly being a murder weapon?
I've been handling my maglight while thinking about this. This kind of flashlight is extremely heavy and even with a small amount of force could easily crack a skull and leave the shape that was found on JB skull. Very easily. This flashlight is used by cops. It is not a light flashlight. It's very easily a weapon. It is made of metal. So it carries significant weight. Add in several batteries? You've got a powerful weapon that could crack even an adult's skull.

ETA: my maglight flashlight holds 3 size D batteries if you want to factor in the weight. I believe this adds significant force behind a swing of this flashlight. Holding it in your hand, you can feel the power. I actually keep this beside my bed AS a weapon. Along with a gun *cough*.


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The main thing with this and everything else in this interview to me is that Burke is pre-emptively handling and explaining away evidence that they fear or know one of the documentaries (likely the CBS doc) will bring up. They have reason to fear that they will link evidence with that flashlight to them both, so there is the story explaining away the flashlight use. And it's a bad story, too. No one puts their child to bed with a flashlight unless the power is out, okay? Let's not even pretend for two seconds this is common behaviour.

Anyone here a parent? Putting a kid to bed is already a big pain in the butt, you're not going to make it even harder on yourself and make it hard to see anything and meanwhile hold a heavy flashlight the whole time. It's nonsense. They had somewhere to go the next day at six AM, they're not going to screw around like that, it was a hugely busy day, it was Christmas! Not the time to screw around and make your own night more difficult.

This flashlight story only serves one purpose, explain away evidence they KNOW will be found or has been found. That's it. They know they're guilty of something that night, whether covering up or killing, and they're just covering their butts and that's the end of it. It's about as laughable a story as the nonsense ransom note's long tale. I swear this story only served one purpose, it let everyone know that the Ramsey's know the murder weapon was the flashlight. That's why they are placing it around the house and explaining around it so much. They're not explaining the bat, and that makes sense - hardly anyone who is super into this case really thought about the bat as a weapon. It was the flashlight, this interview pretty much solidified this for me personally.

Who used it, I don't know. Burke definitely knows more than he is saying, whether he had a hand in this or not. He knows. I'm not basing this on the anxious smiling, I'm just basing it on every book etc. I've read, every piece of evidence I've looked at, every interview, everything. HIs mannerisms in the interview on Dr. Phil don't matter nearly as much as the specific things Burke attempts to explain away. That's what everyone needs to be paying attention to. What is the spin? Why is it being spun? That's the heart of this interview.

 

[YouWho]

****************************************

DP: Did you go to the pagaents
very much?

BR: Ya, I mean I remember,
like a, one of the pagaents things
or something. She just like
would go out and just like,
you know,
(snap) (flourishes an imaginary skirt)
like flaunt whatever on stage and
She wasn't shy I guess.

*****************************

(snipped by me and I added my description of BR's hand movement).

This statement bothers me. Is it just me or does this have a whiff of victim blaming?

 

[garthmax]

Question: I know JonB wet the bed that night but was she still wearing her nightgown with the urine on it or did she have a new gown on when found?

 

[lstric]

I highly respect your opinion on this case like I do everyone whether they are in agreement with me or not. I rarely post about JB because I know the majority are onboard with one/two or all Ramseys being involved in her murder. However; even though I don't post often I have kept up with the case closely since it happened, both here, and elsewhere. My opinion hasn't changed just like others haven't changed in 20 years either.

Respectfully, that makes it even more incomprehensible to me to believe if she was up all night, exhausted, tired, and foggy headed from wine that she would have the clear cognitive ability to then be able to write and then rewrite a long ransom note that pointed suspicion at them instead of the unknown killer on top of knowing the light of her life lay murdered and was left for all to see in the most inhumane way imaginable. While I know many didn't like Patsy's demeanor throughout I never saw a guilty mother who would ever harmed the daughter who meant everything to her. There is no evidence that either parent was ever abusive to any of their children. There is no way I can ever see Patsy Ramsey sitting there calmly thinking of what to write and rewrite while her daughter lay dead.

It doesn't make any sense that they did it and planned to take her out of the home at a later time. When they called 911 they expected the police would search the entire home as is always done. There was no way for either one of them to know her body would be overlooked. So respectfully, I just don't agree with that.

There is no assurances whatsoever, imo, that any of the neighbors would have seen them in the middle of the night. Murderers who were total strangers have taken young children right out of their own homes and no one who lived around them was the wiser nor saw or heard a thing. The parents inside of the home didn't even hear anything yet the child was gone when they got up and later on found murdered. Even parents who have murdered their children have taken their children's bodies out of their home and then pretended they were missing. In several unsolved cases no one saw the parents leaving either. So saying someone would have seen them or heard them just isn't a fact. Murderers are always high risk takers when they are trying to distance themselves from the murder/s they commit.

The ransom note if written by Patsy was to affirm JB had been kidnapped so if something happened where she couldn't be transported from her home all they had to do is tear up the ransom note. The ransom note written by the true killer of JB did as it was designed to do and that is to make the Ramseys look like fools and he achieved his goal. The killer knew she would be found eventually in her own home. It was the cruel joke he gleefully played on the Ramseys knowing how it all was going to end. He wanted them to have hope she was alive and then when they found out she wasn't it would be an even harder blow to take especially knowing she lay horrifically murdered in their very own home. He mocked them, twisting them inside and out with his cruel game he played with their emotions. He wanted them to know he could take their beautiful little daughter right from her own bed and do horrific things to her right under their nose as they all slept. The ransom note was written for the sole purpose to cast immediate suspicions on the Ramseys and it worked like a charm and has for 20 years for most who believe in their involvement. The ransom note made them all look like suspicious bumbling fools and that is exactly the revenge he sought and did. He took their brightest star, he invaded their safe space, he sadistically toyed with their emotions and he wrote the ransom note in such a way he knew they would look like fools which would direct the suspicion on them instead of him.

I wish the very best for Burke even though I wish he had never done this interview. However; he does have to have inner strength for even being able to do the interview knowing how most have vilified him and his parents and found them guilty in the court of public opinion instead of in a court of law which actually requires evidence to prove each allegation/claim. Imo, Burke knows he did not harm his sister and he knows his mom and dad had no part in it either and no one can take that away from him.

I just read this morning about a 43 year old cold case being solved concerning two young girls. They finally got a DNA match that tied the suspects to their murders. I hope one day the same will happen for JBs murder.

<modsnip>
THANK YOU "ocean"

 

[garthmax]

Question: Was the flashlight found to have no fingerprints on it?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

DH and I were away for a few days but found out when and what channel Dr. Phil was on so we could watch Burke's interview. No doubt about it, Burke is just. plain. weird. Not a psychologist or shrink, but this young man definitely has some serious developmental, emotional, and social issues. I'm not ready to suggest that Burke killed JonBenet, but he knows exactly what happened in the house that night/following morning. Burke's been coached and programmed for twenty years to say and do whatever his parents instructed, and he will adhere to the company line until the day he dies. The Ramsey's "perfect family" image can't be tarnished, and Burke knows it's up to him to protect the legacy. I, for one, have zero respect for the Ramseys.

I wasn't expecting John to have a significant role in the interview. Shame on Dr. Phil for not promoting this part of the "exclusive interview with Burke Ramsey". I've always thought that John Ramsey was a Master Bull@#$%er, and he displayed his lying prowess once again.

 

[Ellie9]

I agree with everyone here that something is going on psychologically with Burke. I know you posters here didn't say this - so I'm not saying this to you - but a lot of people online in various other forums have been saying Burke looked like "a psychopath" and I want to say the opposite of that is true now for me. He's not a "psychopath" because they are much better at handling themselves socially and appear glib more than they appear awkward.

They also show hardly any fear. What I got from Burke was basically nonstop fear. That was anxious smiling, anxious wriggling around, anxious fidgeting with his hands. Whatever is going on with Burke, I don't know, anxiety for sure (Dr. Phil said that himself) but I'm definitely thinking he is/was NOT a psychopath or sociopath in any way. So any theories that involve a child with, I don't know, a need to kill... those are kind of out the window for me. I firmly believe whatever happened that night, firstly it was with someone in that house, but secondly I firmly believe it started as an accident, it was not premeditated murder.

 

[x_files]

I think that is one reason to at least come to a conclusion and a final ruling. To keep other parents from pulling this crap.
Too many copycats out there now a days.
I agree he would've only been put in psych care. I think it was necessary for his own good and mental well being. Maybe if he had we would be looking at a very different BR today. One that is much more controlled and well rounded socially.
The fact that they didn't do the right thing from the beginning concerns me most. Hell if they had called 911 immediately if BR did in fact accidentally harm her, she might very well be alive today and we might not have to wonder.
There is a need to prevent this from repeating. Let parents know they have to answer to cops and society. That this behavior is not allowed. Until JBR receives justice, and it might only be in the public arena that she receives this, should any of us sit back and stay silent.
I do think the system owes JBR some type of answers and some kind of outcry.
No child should have to suffer as she did, needlessly.
I think when we stop asking questions and let things go quietly into the abyss as this case has for too long, we are only harming our own future generations.
Look at Casey Anthony. She should have never walked.

Basically they learned LIE, LIE, DENY, DENY and create enough doubt and you'll walk.

 

[SATA]

Good question. And why wasn´t the toy in his room, why go downstairs at all?

 

[YouWho]

Question: Was the flashlight found to have no fingerprints on it?

The flashlight and its batteries had no prints, leading investigators to surmise it had been wiped clean. Also, no one - not the Ramseys, the police, or guests in the home that morning - claimed to have owned the flashlight. But IIRC, at some point early on, John Andrew said he'd given the flashlight as a gift to his dad.

I've read Steve Thomas' book and James Kohler's book, and at no time do I ever recall -please correct me if I'm wrong- at no time have the Ramseys mentioned that JR put Burke to bed Christmas night with the flashlight... Until now on the Dr. Phil show.

John Ramsey's statements - and Patsy's - have changed and evolved to fit the evidence so much over the years. Kohler even dedicated an entire chapter (25) to the 'evolution of John Ramsey's statements'.

 

[Denlawyer]

I apologize if these points have already been brought up (been traveling), but I watched the second part last night and a couple things jumped out at me:

1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but before the DP interview I had never heard that Burke sneaked downstairs to play with some new toy that night. That is a startling revelation as it impacts time of death (got home at 10, most believe time of the blow was around midnight). Perhaps more importantly, if true it means the "intruder" had to wait ever longer . . . that is, he somehow had to know Burke got up after he was supposed to be in bed and was playing; the intruder had to hide and wait even longer before he could snatch JBR from her bed. Likely?

2. Equally as startling, prior to the DP interview I don't believe it had ever been reported that JR took the kids upstairs to bed that night using the flashlight (I believe I I heard that correctly). In fact, in her interview PR said she didn't even think it was their flashlight or why it would be on the counter like that. Later either PR or JR admitted that it looked like the one JR's other son had given him. If true, it's very disturbing that the Rs never mentioned this before. Also, I believe no prints were found on the flashlight . . . was it wiped down (??) since at least JR's fingerprints should have been on it from that night.

3. Admits the bat was his. Suggests perhaps the intruder used the bat . . . again making this intruder the worst prepared intruder ever. Nice of him to leave Burke's bat right outside the door though on his way out.

4. 911 Call - Burke says he did not leave his bed, wasn't talking to parents when they called 911. Yet, we know from the dateline special that the during his Grand Jury testimony he denied being around when the call was made but admitted that the enhanced tape sounded like his voice. Hmmm . . . now he acts like that never happened.

5. 13 days after the murder he tells the investigator that he knows what happened to JBR; someone took her quietly down to the basement and hit her hard over the head with something like a knife. While the autopsy had been completed by then, I don't believe it had been leaked. How did BR know she was hit over the head . . . lucky guess? I highly doubt, if the Rs had been informed by that time, that they told him she suffered a tremendous blow to the head.

6. Pineapple - BR conveniently mentions if JBR had a snack it would be something like pineapple and that they may have eaten pineapple that day.

Finally, just an observation but does anyone find it odd that 20 years after her death he maintains that he's never really heard of IDI, RDI, BDI; that he's never gone online and researched his sister's death or been curious as to why his parents were suspects? He said he's never really read the ransom note? I get not wanting to relive this horrible event, but after all these years I can't imagine reading a couple books or looking at some of the evidence on line and formulating my own thoughts/opinions. That just struck me as odd (one of several odd behavioral observations but I try to stick with the facts/statements). It's also convenient; the less he knows about the case the less he can answer various questions.

I still struggle a ton with this case in terms of how it went down that night (setting aside the IDI theory), but these revelations seem new and significant.

 

[zencompass]

Hi everyone,

I did think that it was an "accident" in that someone hit J.B. on the head however now I have a few questions.

Firstly the blow to the head created a massive skull fracture so does that mean that brutal strength must have been used to accomplish this? To me an accident would not have happened with such tremendous force - tremendous rage more likely. How much force would have been needed to create an 8 inch fracture?

Secondly, at first I understood (incorrectly) that the garrote was simply assembled as a cover up. Then I learned that this was in fact what ended
this little girl's life. When I see the horrible mark dug into her neck from the ligature I wonder if a parent (or a loved one) could do this.

I would be very interested in others' views on these questions. Thank you in advance!

 

[dizzychick]

If BR killed her by accident I don't think B would have spent a day in jail only psychiatric care where he belonged.
Not sure why the parents would create such an elaborate cover-up. I assume fear of family pride being tarnished forever and losing yet another child.
The case would have been solved. I doubt anyone would have put the grieving parents in jail either.

or they didnt want a special needs child with severe head injuries plus the fact they probably had no idea at the time what would happen to little Burkey if they admitted he was in fact the one that whacked her over the head with a flashlight. I could see this scenerio being much more likely than the wild Christmas night sex feind intruder who writes a 3 page note on their tablet with their pen then kills the child and never tries to get the 118K they demanded. I dont blame the Boulder cops one bit for this case.