Dr. Phil Interviews Burke Ramsey (9/12 & 9/13 2016)

[Ellie9]

Question: Was the flashlight found to have no fingerprints on it?

It was found to have been wiped down (potentially) because there were no fingerprints, even though it was used apparently that same night at least twice. *shrug* Suspicious to me. Seems like it was wiped down, but who knows.

 

[YouWho]

DH and I were away for a few days but found out when and what channel Dr. Phil was on so we could watch Burke's interview. No doubt about it, Burke is just. plain. weird. Not a psychologist or shrink, but this young man definitely has some serious developmental, emotional, and social issues. I'm not ready to suggest that Burke killed JonBenet, but he knows exactly what happened in the house that night/following morning. Burke's been coached and programmed for twenty years to say and do whatever his parents instructed, and he will adhere to the company line until the day he dies. The Ramsey's "perfect family" image can't be tarnished, and Burke knows it's up to him to protect the legacy. I, for one, have zero respect for the Ramseys.

I wasn't expecting John to have a significant role in the interview. Shame on Dr. Phil for not promoting this part of the "exclusive interview with Burke Ramsey". I've always thought that John Ramsey was a Master Bull@#$%er, and he displayed his lying prowess once again.

I couldn't agree more. Like someone here had suggested, perhaps part of his emotional development is stunted, perhaps it stopped developing around age 9 ish.

John stated to DP, "This IS my final interview." So yeah, it's like he's passing the torch. Someday, when JR and even Lin Wood are dead and gone, when this kid has a midlife crisis I am hoping, perhaps he will begin to actually examine the evidence. By his own admission he never read the whole ransom note. Ignorance is safe - won't result in a confrontation, and produces no worries.

 

[x_files]

BBM

Interesting that you would use the word "sneaky". Last night, after watching the DP interview, I reviewed some very old notes of mine on the case, reviewed some floor plans of the house and re-read some of the Ramsey's deposition statements. As I often do after reviewing the facts of a case, I finished by doing some free-flow writing on what I've reviewed. Here's what I wrote:

Evidence of sneaky behavior by Burke

1. Waiting for everyone to be in bed, then sneaking downstairs to play with toy.
2. Unwrapping presents in the wine cellar.
3. Sneaking downstairs to make a late night snack (pineapple, tea), which he says his parents didn't allow.
4. Pretending to be asleep when parents and police officer entered his bedroom.
5. Being sneaky with a neighborhood boy, either while showing each other "their works" or doing more than that (age 7)
6. (If factual) Burke and Jonbenet getting caught playing doctor.
7. (assuming Burke did this) Smearing feces on a box of chocolates in Jonbenet's room.
( I also went on to write about some of the answers and behavior during the DP interview that struck me as sneaky. For instance, when asked if he and JB had eaten pineapple together that day, he replied, "maybe?" , smiling in a way that I found coy and...well...sneaky.)

As to the second part of your post that I bolded: to the best of my recollection, Burke never stated that he took the flashlight downstairs when he snuck down there to play with the toy. DP said that John lead Burke to bed that night by flashlight. Burke didn't disagree with this statement, he simply went on to say that he snuck downstairs after everyone was in bed. So did he sneak down there using the flashlight? My guess is that he did, but I don't think anyone can state that as a fact. JMO

smearing poop on his little sisters's chocolate strikes me as disturbed and more than just sneaky. But Burke loves being sneaky.

 

[Ellie9]

Hi everyone,

I did think that it was an "accident" in that someone hit J.B. on the head however now I have a few questions.

Firstly the blow to the head created a massive skull fracture so does that mean that brutal strength must have been used to accomplish this? To me an accident would not have happened with such tremendous force - tremendous rage more likely. How much force would have been needed to create an 8 inch fracture?

Secondly, at first I understood (incorrectly) that the garrote was simply assembled as a cover up. Then I learned that this was in fact what ended
this little girl's life. When I see the horrible mark dug into her neck from the ligature I wonder if a parent (or a loved one) could do this.

I would be very interested in others' views on these questions. Thank you in advance!

She was a little six year old at the time, not too much brutal force was needed with the weapon, but an over-the-head swing probably was needed. An over-the-head swing looks like, you know, the swing Burke imitated exactly while being interviewed as a child.

When people say an accident - the people who think BDI - what you are most likely hearing is that Burke intended to hit her, but not to KILL her. Like, a raging child had a tantrum and hit his sister as hard as he could, but didn't INTEND to kill anyone. Another example is a raging parent who pushed her into something hard, or hit her with something hard, maybe not even intending to hit her but scare her or something like that.

So it can be an accident and still involve serious force.

ETA: regarding the garotte... parents sadly do and have done unspeakable things to their children, whether it's through abuse, neglect, etc. There were parents on trial recently in Canada for tying their child up to a bed for years, not feeding him, no medical care, no attention, roaches all over. Atrocious. But it was real. There is no magical thing that happens when you are a parent. People with serious psychological problems can procreate just as easily as anyone else. Not everyone had a glorious loving childhood.

Also that garotte could have been used in pure desperation. Never underestimate how primal the human mind can be under extreme stress. Never underestimate how "dumb" people can act under extreme stress. It is my belief that they felt they needed to cover this crime up and did everything they could think to do. (They, or one parent, I don't know myself). So that garotte, it's bad, but it's not even close to the worst things I've heard parents doing to their own children.

 

[x_files]

I'm reading on some web pages that the knots were simple and boy scout stuff, but I've read elsewhere that BR could have learned the knots because his parents owned a boat. It's within the realm of possibility BR knew how to do the knots. Maybe (hopefully) the last interview with Dr Phil will ask him directly.

I agree, BR doing this interview was a very bad idea. I went from not knowing or thinking very much about this case to starting to form opinions about it (mostly) because the media was in a frenzy about Burke giving Dr Phil an interview. I'm sure I'm not the only one who went from being blissfully neutral to giving BR the stink eye through their television set. If this was his idea, it was a very bad idea. If someone talked him into it, I would asking why they did.

I knew elaborate knots at age ( learned from a Boy Scout handbook and was a tomboy played a lot outside. It's not rocket science and Burke is intelligent and sneaky, I'll give him that.

 

[x_files]

She was a little six year old at the time, not too much brutal force was needed with the weapon, but an over-the-head swing probably was needed. An over-the-head swing looks like, you know, the swing Burke imitated exactly while being interviewed as a child.

When people say an accident - the people who think BDI - what you are most likely hearing is that Burke intended to hit her, but not to KILL her. Like, a raging child had a tantrum and hit his sister as hard as he could, but didn't INTEND to kill anyone. Another example is a raging parent who pushed her into something hard, or hit her with something hard, maybe not even intending to hit her but scare her or something like that.

So it can be an accident and still involve serious force.

I will go as far to say I think Burke intended to harm her maybe even kill her. I think Burke is far more disturbed than I ever once thought 20 years ago. His demeanor is beyond disturbing. I hope he doesn't have any kids of his own.

 

[YouWho]

I apologize if these points have already been brought up (been traveling), but I watched the second part last night and a couple things jumped out at me:

1. Correct me if I'm wrong

Finally, just an observation but does anyone find it odd that 20 years after her death he maintains that he's never really heard of IDI, RDI, BDI; that he's never gone online and researched his sister's death or been curious as to why his parents were suspects? He said he's never really read the ransom note? I get not wanting to relive this horrible event, but after all these years I can't imagine reading a couple books or looking at some of the evidence on line and formulating my own thoughts/opinions. That just struck me as odd (one of several odd behavioral observations but I try to stick with the facts/statements). It's also convenient; the less he knows about the case the less he can answer various questions.

I still struggle a ton with this case in terms of how it went down that night (setting aside the IDI theory), but these revelations seem new and significant.

No, you're not wrong - your summary is very on point. I just wanted to say I don't think it's odd that 20 years later at age 29 while his dad still lives that Burke doesn't know much more than he did when he was 9, 10, probably 12. I think he's in some type of battered wife syndrome. Self preservation. But that someday he's going to face the truth but he's not ready yet. At least I hope... I wonder if he's read his parent's book Death of Innocence. I kind of feel like he hasn't. This may sound odd, but I kind of feel he wants to remain somewhat neutral. I'm not BDI though, so others may not feel that way. A parent did this, and the other is either blind and dumb, or they helped cover up. That's my opinion.

 

[SATA]

Burke should be re-interviewed about this by Boulder police. Important new detail(s - flashlight too).

 

[kaykay543]

I have been reading this forum off and on for years but this is my first post. Hoping I do this right

I took custody of my niece at 10 years old when her mother (my sister) died of cancer. I see a lot of similarities with her and BR. Someone on FB said DP and JR now say that Burke does have Aspergers Syndrome. So does my niece. But what many forget is the flip side of Aspergers for many is extreme intelligence. They have no common sense but sail through math, academia etc. I so see this in BR. My niece also showed no emotion at her mothers funeral etc. We tried counseling but she wouldn't open up. Also back then (my niece is Burkes age) most doctors had never heard of Aspergers. I remember her first Dr telling me he had no idea what I was talking about. I remember her advanced algebra teacher calling me one day in shock. She had laid out a huge math problem on the board. My niece looked at it for about 1 min and explained the whole answer.

I never thought that BR did the murder until now. Not because of his creepy smile. But because he now admits being downstairs. That is HUGE. And the part about the flashlight is huge. The Ramseys always denied that was their flashlight. Unfortunately because it was the same one the police use; they couldn't prove who it belonged to. Even though the older brother admitted buying one for JR and PR as a present.

Also if you look at the crime scene photos, you see the diapers hanging out of the drawer. Obviously PR is lying about putting her to bed without her waking up. I also find it very odd that Burke stated it was "normal" for kids his age to wet the bed and for "moms to clean it up" No its not normal at all. Keep in mind Burke was only a few weeks away from turning 10. Its been said by many that Burke was everything to his mother. Until she had JonBenet.

 

[topcop]

Well I've been following the case since the beginning. I've read the majority of the books about the case. For me it's very clear. The former police chief, James Kolar who probably knows more about the evidence than anyone, got it right.

Burke did it. The parents covered it up. This makes all the sense in the world.

Why did the parents go to extreme lengths to prevent Burke from being interviewed almost immediately? Why did they refuse to allow themselves to be interviewed by the police (unless they were interviewed together?) Why was John Ramsey making arrangements to leave town almost immediately? Why did JR lawyer up almost immediately?

None of this behavior makes sense except when looked at from the perspective of two parents who are trying to save their only living child from a lifelong sentence of public scrutiny and judgement as a very weird, sick little boy.

This, in addition to the public scrutiny and judgement that would follow them - as the parents of a very weird, sick little boy.

The physical and circumstantial evidence is very powerful; Patsy's handwriting, her practice writing on her own writing pad, her writing pens, her paint brush used as the garrote. PR and JR's unnatural, stonewalling behavior as parents of a murdered child.

All of the rest of the case is nothing more than diversion that confuses the untrained public. A Santa Clause suspect, Mark Kaar, police mistakes, a variety of investigative imperfections and typo errors (typical and normal), a half dozen weirdo suspects that emerge to muddy the investigation (also typical and normal) touch DNA; all of these things are simply distractions to the fundamental evidence as described in Kolar's book; Foreign Faction.

The unsupported theories about psycho killers disregard the police and FBI experts that have identified the loosely placed "restraints" as an attempt to stage this crime. Personally, it kills me how often ordinary John Q Public folks foolishly and arrogantly disregard professional trained experts who have spent countless hours developing thier science and skills. In other words: "To heck with the evidence and theories developed by the FBI. Listen to me instead. I have a two year degree in Humanities." Please!

The surprising appearance of Burke Ramsey finally giving this interview after all these years should provide meaningful insight to discerning, reasonable adults when viewing what was once a disturbed little boy as a disturbed adult male.

 

[YouWho]

Hi everyone,

I did think that it was an "accident" in that someone hit J.B. on the head however now I have a few questions.

Firstly the blow to the head created a massive skull fracture so does that mean that brutal strength must have been used to accomplish this? To me an accident would not have happened with such tremendous force - tremendous rage more likely. How much force would have been needed to create an 8 inch fracture?

Secondly, at first I understood (incorrectly) that the garrote was simply assembled as a cover up. Then I learned that this was in fact what ended
this little girl's life. When I see the horrible mark dug into her neck from the ligature I wonder if a parent (or a loved one) could do this.

I would be very interested in others' views on these questions. Thank you in advance!

Regarding how much force, I do not know. But I do know that John once described her as a 'petite blond' (I cringed a little when I heard that), and she was indeed so little. Her hands in the autopsy photos are so small. She was just a little wisp of a thing, but John also described her as a 'handful.'

Regarding if a parent could do that, they can and they do, every day. On average 450 deaths per year in the U.S. children killed by parents. The only difference IMO is most parents who accidentally kill don't have an Atlanta fat cat society reputation, a million dollar fortune and a self-important pride to protect.

If the Ramseys had been any other regular working class or any other regular poor family in America, they'd have been convicted, IMO. Team Ramsey stalled, refused to cooperate, hired their own investigators & experts, enlisted the media, and just flat out lied until essentially the Boulder PD ran out of money.

From 1996 through 2001, the Ramsey investigation had cost the BPD $1,705,251.21 Kohler's book). All Team Ramsey had to do is wait them out - they could afford it.

 

[human]

What kind of relationship do Burke and Dad have?

 

[FinallyRegistered]

So where are the flashlight and baseball bat now? Why haven't we heard about the forensic results of their testing?

Yes, the flashlight was wiped down, but blood doesn't disappear from a wipe-down. At this point LE should know what the murder weapon was, whether it was a tool of some sort or if it was a bathroom cabinet or countertop. I wonder if the GJ was told what actually caused the facture, or if LE just never figured it out.

 

[YouWho]

I'd love to hear Kohler's thoughts right now. Surely he's watched the interview?

 

[kaykay543]

I'd love to hear Kohler's thoughts right now. Surely he's watched the interview?

I agree! I would love to hear what he says now. I think the interview proved a lot of what he was implying in his book

 

[Tadpole12]

The Burke Ramsey Interviews: Your Questions Answered on Dr. Phil on
Thursday, September 15, 2016

http://www.drphil.com/shows/the-burke-ramsey-interviews-your-questions-answered/

ty SR

finally, a live audience reaction with DP


DP: He was nine years old when
this happened,
He wasn't a suspect, people.

 

[Tadpole12]

Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?
A James Kolar
Look inside....

https://www.amazon.ca/Foreign-Faction-Really-Kidnapped-JonBenet/dp/098476321X

 

[Tadpole12]

The flashlight and its batteries had no prints, leading investigators to surmise it had been wiped clean. Also, no one - not the Ramseys, the police, or guests in the home that morning - claimed to have owned the flashlight. But IIRC, at some point early on, John Andrew said he'd given the flashlight as a gift to his dad.

I've read Steve Thomas' book and James Kohler's book, and at no time do I ever recall -please correct me if I'm wrong- at no time have the Ramseys mentioned that JR put Burke to bed Christmas night with the flashlight... Until now on the Dr. Phil show.

John Ramsey's statements - and Patsy's - have changed and evolved to fit the evidence so much over the years. Kohler even dedicated an entire chapter (25) to the 'evolution of John Ramsey's statements'.

Yes YW

'until now'

Yes why counter-point that
particular point? JK's mentions
BR sneaking a peek at presents
in the basement, but with
no time reference
(inference being around Christmas day)
It would have been better off in omission.

 

[Red Viewfinder]

I just don't think Burke did it! I have a child who is close to 9. I think he's being given way too much credit, as a 9 year old. His answers seemed pretty reasonable and how I would feel. People I don't know are asking me the same questions over and over. Also, I had a little sister die when I was 16. Even at 16, I was uncomfortable when people would ask me how many kids in my family. I would not include her in the number because then there were questions. How old was everyone, bots or girls, etc. I can see why he didn't draw her. It becomes uncomfortable. He was drawing his present reality. Also, No 9 year old wrote that letter! From the handwriting to the spelling to the wording. .. not a 9 year old. My little would probably stay in his room if people were crying and something was obviously going on. He would be scared and trying to stay away from the bad man- just what burke said. At 9, I think he would have slipped up more, if he did it. Their cognitive abilities can't sustain what it would take for him to be lying about killing her. I kind of feel like this child has been publicly abused and accused all his life. That will for sure create lifelong issues and "strangeness". I think that 9 year old went through more than what most adults could mentally handle. I feel sorry for him. I know plenty of people disagree, and that's ok. I just wanted to give a different view point. Sorry it's a big string of points- my phone let's me see 2 Lines at a time! Lol

Normally, this is absolutely correct BUT…. I have a strange cousin. He is 12 now, but from the time he was a baby, he was overly aggressive. He would bang his head on the floor and rock. He would have terrible screaming fits, and even as a toddler, it sometimes took 2 people to deal with him.
When he was about 5, we were on a walk. His mom and I were dawdling behind a bit and he was ahead with my daughter who was also 5 at the time. The second they turned out of sight, I heard a blood curdling scream from my daughter. I ran to her and he had grabbed her and slammed her head against a tree. While he has some sort of "special needs", he certainly knew to wait until we couldn't see them and then harm her. There was also something in him, that made him strong enough to do this sort of thing.
This is only one example of many, where this child went out of his way to hurt other kids when no one was looking.
After that encounter, so many years ago, I never allowed him in my house, or left my children any where near him unsupervised. I still shudder as to what he is capable of.

 

[PositiveLight]

Normally, this is absolutely correct BUT…. I have a strange cousin. He is 12 now, but from the time he was a baby, he was overly aggressive. He would bang his head on the floor and rock. He would have terrible screaming fits, and even as a toddler, it sometimes took 2 people to deal with him.
When he was about 5, we were on a walk. His mom and I were dawdling behind a bit and he was ahead with my daughter who was also 5 at the time. The second they turned out of sight, I heard a blood curdling scream from my daughter. I ran to her and he had grabbed her and slammed her head against a tree. While he has some sort of "special needs", he certainly knew to wait until we couldn't see them and then harm her. There was also something in him, that made him strong enough to do this sort of thing.
This is only one example of many, where this child went out of his way to hurt other kids when no one was looking.
After that encounter, so many years ago, I never allowed him in my house, or left my children any where near him unsupervised. I still shudder as to what he is capable of.

Wow! I sure hope your daughter was ok! That's so scary! What did his mama say when it happened? Did she make excuses? Did he show any remorse? 😱

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk