Ebola outbreak - general thread #6

[Isabelle]

With all due respect, when talking about modes of transmission, "airborne" cannot be used as a general term. When you use the term "airborne" when talking about modes of transmission, droplet does not qualify. With respect to modes of transmission, "airborne" is a very specific term which has criteria to describe it and droplet transmission is not remotely the same thing.

I understand thanks. Airborne hangs in the air for long periods and distances and droplet is short time and distance.

If the two infected nurses were using goggles and face mask rather than face shield that would have them highly exposed.

 

[okiedokietoo]

one more:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29636355

Ebola outbreak: What is risk of catching it on a flight?
By Jon Kelly
BBC News Magazine, Washington - 16 October 2014 Last updated at 14:25 ET

Amber Vinson, the second person infected in the US, flew from Cleveland, Ohio, to Dallas, Texas, on Frontier Airlines flight 1143. The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said it wanted to interview the 132 other passengers

It raises the question - how worried should they be about catching the deadly disease?
The answer, according to William Schaffner, an infectious diseases specialist at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine, is not very much.
"I am sure they are concerned but the risk is essentially zero," he says.

Likewise, the CDC says the risk to "any around that individual on the plane would have been extremely low".
This is because the virus is not airborne like flu. Anyone on the same flight as a patient would not be at risk from breathing in the same cabin air.

Instead, Ebola is spread by direct contact with contaminated body fluids such as blood, vomit, saliva and feces. The virus can enter the body via infected droplets through broken skin or mucous membranes such as the eyes, the lining of the nose or the mouth.

Underlined part of quote - underlined by me

 

[Penelope]

I do find it remarkable that the people that shared space and took care of TD have not fallen ill. The reasons I have thought of are:

1. The others have a natural immunity to this strain of ebola.
2. The amount of virus secreted in the beginning stages 0-4 days is very minimal.
3. The family was aware of his contact with the pregnant neighbor, suspected ebola, were watching for symptoms and immediately isolated TD. (This conflicts with was said by the family, but also explains some questionable comments/actions).

moo

I am beginning to suspect it was #3. You would have thought he and his fiancé would have had some sexual contact. But if he knew that he had been exposed, he would probably have not had sexual relations with the fiancé and would have at least told her about his exposure. Remember, a couple of the family members were nurses aides (I believe) and may have had some knowledge of how ebola would be transmitted.

 

[chipmunk]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we will now have 3 patients in the four biocontainment hospitals (Pham, 2nd Dallas nurse, and Who unidentified patient). So that leaves approximately 5-10 total beds left in these 4 facilities!!! We read yesterday that all four hospitals only have a total of 8-13 beds available.

I would assume some major negotiating, planning, modeling is going on behind the scenes for "regional Ebola hospitals". Not only for treatment, but for containment/isolation as well. But I would not bet on it......

:goodpost:

 

[MyBelle]

The fact that it can fly, be coughed or be spit in the air has nothing to do with the "airborne transmission" mode. If you read about what "airborne transmission" actually entails, you can see why we all should be THRILLED that this is merely a contact/droplet rather than airborne. I'm not getting this extreme focus on droplet transmission-which YES, can travel short distances "in the air." People are acting like ebola victims are spewing snot and sneezing and coughing all over the place. They really aren't, because this isn't an URI. And thank goodness!

Who would you rather be around? An infected patient who can sneeze and infect you if you are within 3 or 4 feet, or, if ebola was an airborne transmitted disease, who could infect you from far distances and HOURS after they walked through the room and you never ever crossed paths with them?

Obviously neither, but people are focusing on a rather remote circumstance vs. the way this thing usually transmits. I would be willing to bet the farm that Nina and Amber were not infected by a sneeze.

My own son was exposed to Legionnaires disease at a conference held at a Chicago Marriott a couple of years ago. He did become ill. The source was later determined to be a fountain in the hotel lobby and he had been right next to it. He did not know he had been exposed until his company was notified by the Health Dept. after two people died. He went to Northwestern Univ. Hospital and received treatment. Marriott picked up the full cost of his medical care. Everybody should be glad that Ebola is not spread via airborne. It would be much, much worse.

JMO

 

[CARIIS]

But we could also think that he did not have sex (as far as we know) cause the poor guy was running a horrible fever horrible headache - so sick that he got himself to an ER . IMO it reinfoces the stance that direct contact is real mode of transmission. I would think, that family would just have let him sleep he was in pain etc

just IMO

I am beginning to suspect it was #3. You would have thought he and his fiancé would have had some sexual contact. But if he knew that he had been exposed, he would probably have not had sexual relations with the fiancé and would have at least told her about his exposure. Remember, a couple of the family members were nurses aides (I believe) and may have had some knowledge of how ebola would be transmitted.

 

[MyBelle]

Really would like to know where the breakdown was that caused the two nurses to become infected. I wish we could get details on PPE used, including brand/manufacturer. Makes me nuts!!!

Dr. Rick Sacra has said he believes he got infected in Africa during his removal of his protective gear. If a doctor can get infected, then it is certainly is understandable that other staff are at great risk.

JMO

 

[CARIIS]

Preaty pathetic huh - espceially in light of the fact that this has been going over there for what - 7 months


sad state of affairs and I do think it is reasonable to conclude that there will be a couple more nurses solely casue ot the mess in Dallas - other hospitals really better be training or there is going to be no room at a decent inn

:goodpost:

 

[LaborDayRN]

thank you for your input although you are imo making a point via semantics---- I will take the word "airborne" out of equation and call it let's say, flying body fluid propelled thru the air from a person with Ebola can infect another person if those body fluids land in mouth eyes or open cuts - I am not disputing how the Nurses got infected...

Honestly, instead of saying "flying body fluid propelled thru the air from a person with Ebola can infect another person if those body fluids land in mouth eyes or open cuts", wouldn't it be easier to say "dropplets"? That is one of the modes of transmission for Ebola. I think nrdsb4 is just trying to share accurate information (forgive me for speaking for you nrdsb4). Having accurate information is a powerful thing.

 

[okiedokietoo]

Honestly, instead of saying "flying body fluid propelled thru the air from a person with Ebola can infect another person if those body fluids land in mouth eyes or open cuts", wouldn't it be easier to say "dropplets"? That is one of the modes of transmission for Ebola. I think nrdsb4 is just trying to share accurate information (forgive me for speaking for you nrdsb4). Having accurate information is a powerful thing.

thank you for your post. That is the issue: airborne, not airborne but can be coughed into your eyes mouth etc. Droplets: fluid. I have quoted information from reliable people and sources that would be considered accurate. The poster you are speaking for was arguing about the word "airborne". So here ya go: Dropplets" flying thru the air...
Again thanks for your input. So guess it's time for me to go to bed because my dog got hold of my hat and I don't have anymore tin foil until I go to store in the morning.

 

[okiedokietoo]

I found some.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/du-biology-professor-says-ebola-is-a-type-of-virus-that-can-easily-mutate10162014
DU biology professor says Ebola is a type of virus that can easily mutate
Lance Hernandez - 10:22 PM, Oct 16, 2014 - 34 mins ago

*University of Denver biology professor Phillip Danielson *

When asked if Ebola survivors have immunity to the disease, the professor said, their bodies produce antibodies against the disease.

"But you have to remember," he said, "that Ebola is an RNA virus, which means it mutates quickly. So you may not get infected with the exact same strain, but you might get infected with a new strain."

 

[chipmunk]

He isn't. This is a private hospital, part of a large system.

This was tongue in cheek.

 

[Muffet]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/prel...student-negative-for-ebola-1413485817?tesla=y

Preliminary Tests Show Yale Student Negative for Ebola
Hospital Officials Said Results of Confirmation Test Could be Ready Friday Morning
---------------------

Just posted the title of the article only to remind us all that Dr. Brantley first tested negative and three days later was positive.

I posted an article (somewhere in these threads!) quoting an official (from WHO, IIRC) that was concerned about how suspected cases are being rapidly deemed negative.

Very important reminder, Sophie...

 

[okiedokietoo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/ebola-cruise-ship-dallas.html

Health Worker Who May Have Had Contact With Ebola Is on Cruise Ship
By ALAN COWELLOCT. 17, 2014

Adding a new and troubling dimension to the search for Americans possibly exposed to the Ebola virus, the State Department said Friday that an employee of Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital who may have had contact with specimens of the disease had left the United States aboard a cruise ship.

Ms. Psaki said that, as part of the C.D.C.'s “detailed contact trace investigation conducted in response to the first Ebola case in Dallas, it was discovered that an employee of Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital had departed the United States via a commercial cruise ship on Oct. 12 from Galveston, Tex.”

“The employee did not have direct contact” with Mr. Duncan, the statement said, “but may have had contact with clinical specimens collected from him.”

 

[okiedokietoo]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/morocco-withdraws-as-africa-cup-of-nations-hosts-over-ebola-crisis--reports-9799219.html

FRIDAY 17 OCTOBER 2014

Ebola outbreak: Morocco withdraws as Africa Cup of Nations hosts over crisis

 

[okiedokietoo]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/morocco-withdraws-as-africa-cup-of-nations-hosts-over-ebola-crisis--reports-9799219.html

FRIDAY 17 OCTOBER 2014

Ebola outbreak: Morocco withdraws as Africa Cup of Nations hosts over crisis

 

[Elley Mae]

thank you for your post. That is the issue: airborne, not airborne but can be coughed into your eyes mouth etc. Droplets: fluid. I have quoted information from reliable people and sources that would be considered accurate. The poster you are speaking for was arguing about the word "airborne". So here ya go: Dropplets" flying thru the air...
Again thanks for your input. So guess it's time for me to go to bed because my dog got hold of my hat and I don't have anymore tin foil until I go to store in the morning.

I'm with you on this topic. I am very hard headed and if it can hitch a ride in/on a water droplet and move through the air from one warm body to the other and live/survive to infect then it's airborne to me.

 

[margarita25]

WND EXCLUSIVE
U.S. ARMY WARNS OF POTENTIAL 'AIRBORNE' EBOLA
Virus could be transmitted by means other than contact
Published: 1 day ago

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2014/10/u-s-army-warns-of-potential-airborne-ebola/#eylcoSWMA5V1v2Xo.99
WND recently reported the World Health Organization, in a largely overlooked media advisory email, admitted there are some circumstances in which the current strain of Ebola in West Africa can be transmitted through coughing or sneezing.

“Theoretically, wet and bigger droplets from a heavily infected individual, who has respiratory symptoms caused by other conditions or who vomits violently, could transmit the virus – over a short distance – to another nearby person,” the WHO Ebola situation assessment said.

“This could happen when virus-laden heavy droplets are directly propelled, by coughing or sneezing (which does not mean airborne transmission) onto the mucus membranes or skin with cuts or abrasions of another person.”

Air-purifying equipment

The USAMRID handbook recommends that for all VHF patients with significant cough, hemorrhaging or diarrhea, the hospital room should be a “negative-pressure isolation room” with six to 12 air exchanges, adequate to pump air out of the hospital room on a constant basis through bio-filters.

To make the point about airborne transmission of VHF viruses, including Ebola, USAMRID says all persons entering the patient’s room should wear double gloves, impermeable gowns with leg and shoe coverings for contact isolation, eye protection and HEPA (N-95) masks or positive-pressure air-purifying respirators (PARRS).

In the absence of a large, fixed medical-treatment facility, or in the event of an overwhelming number of casualties when isolation rooms may not be available for all patients, USAMRID recommends that at a minimum, VHF patients should stay together in “a ward with an air-handling system separate from the rest of the building when feasible.”

The manual notes that clinical laboratory personnel are “at significant risk for exposure” and should employ a bio-safety cabinet when available, with barrier and respiratory precautions when handling specimens."

http://www.wnd.com/2014/10/u-s-army-warns-of-potential-airborne-ebola/

 

[margarita25]

View attachment 61438

"...passive behavior..."

:waitasec:

 

[rabidstoat]

Alarm after vomiting passenger dies on flight from Nigeria to JFK

http://nypost.com/2014/10/16/alarm-a...igeria-to-jfk/

Is this for real??? I would think the news would be all over this??

The NY Post's article is a bit sensationalist. If you read about the same story from other stories, like the NY Daily News, it's not quite as fear-inducing: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...-briefly-sparks-ebola-fears-article-1.1976465

He was vomiting and complaining of chest pains. It appears as if Ebola was ruled out so fast when it was determined he'd died of a heart attack.