Ebola outbreak - general thread #7

[Hatfield]

I think it should be illegal to eat the same bowling shoes as an ebola victim!

The lady talking to Anderson Cooper admitted she eats off others plates when she goes to restaraunts with friends. LOL
Anderson was making fun of her because of that comment she made.

 

[Muffet]

Actually, panic based on fear vs. facts is very costly. It closes businesses, it causes people to miss work needlessly (think the teacher who is on forced isolation simply because she went to Dallas for a conference), it taxes the healthcare system with false alarms, etc. And that's just what comes to mind at a moment's notice.

That is not saying that reason and caution and logical protocols should not be instituted and followed. But it cannot be denied that there have been some absolutely mind blowing overreactions to this situation which have certainly exerted a price.

That's why I said "not as costly", nrdsb4.

Had people been reasonably cautious, amber's plane trip wouldn't have happened in the first place. This doctor wouldn't have been out running around.

Many people are anxiety prone by nature, regardless of what we say or do. I don't think berating or insulting them is as helpful as gentle reminders and demonstrations that we take things like this seriously.

JMO And all that....

 

[trigger]

Dr. Craig Spencer, 33, was hauled off Thursday to Bellevue Hospital in a protective suit with symptoms of the deadly disease. Sources said his temperature was normal when he landed at Kennedy Airport 10 days ago. But it spiked to a 103-degree fever by early Thursday. And he was vomiting, the sources said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ients-rushed-bellevue-fever-article-1.1984941

 

[gngr~snap]

She was involved in decontamination of doctors coming out of Ebola wards. My understanding she would be the one spraying them as they came out. Maybe it splashed on her.

I saw that. Today a reporter on CNN said she only helped the families, but I read an interview with the son that said she worked as a nurses assistant as well, doing decontamination. So obviously that's how she got it.


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[jjenny]

Dr. Craig Spencer, 33, was hauled off Thursday to Bellevue Hospital in a protective suit with symptoms of the deadly disease. Sources said his temperature was normal when he landed at Kennedy Airport 10 days ago. But it spiked to a 103-degree fever by early Thursday. And he was vomiting, the sources said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ients-rushed-bellevue-fever-article-1.1984941

So he was in fact vomiting.

 

[Hatfield]

That's why I said "not as costly", nrdsb4.

Had people been reasonably cautious, amber's plane trip wouldn't have happened in the first place. This doctor wouldn't have been out running around.

Many people are anxiety prone by nature, regardless of what we say or do. I don't think berating or insulting them is as helpful as gentle reminders and demonstrations that we take things like this seriously.

JMO And all that....

I agree.

Ive been watching CNN since this news broke and I keep hearing "officials" use terms like it is "highly unlikely" the person could have infected someone....ya da ya da.

With this particular disease IMO, we should be taking absolutely no chance with risking others. ZERO, zilch, etc.
It makes no sense to me to even chance it. Just put in the necessary precautions to limit and isolate travelers that have known to come from infected areas. Instead of waiting till the next person shows up at the hospital with the disease and then scrambling to find out all their contacts and make all the contacts and their families worry as well. In addition to the businesses like the bowling alley that is now shut down until further notice.

 

[chipmunk]

When Amber tested negative so quickly it make me wonder about the rate of false positives. I don't have a clear answer except that it's fairly low. It's interesting to see what tests are available to use and how to interpret them.

http://globalbiodefense.com/2014/08/11/dod-ebola-diagnostic-approved-emergency-use

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) last week issued an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for an Ebola diagnostic test developed by the Department of Defense (DoD)." - See more at: http://globalbiodefense.com/2014/08...-approved-emergency-use/#sthash.hBeU9UjX.dpuf

This assay has been designed to minimize false positive test results.

----------------

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/216288-workup How to work up an Ebola suspected patient.

SEROLOGIC TESTS FOR ANTIBODY AND ANTIGENS
"The indirect fluorescence antibody test (IFAT) is associated with false-positive results. Concerns over the sensitivity and utility of this test have resulted in the development of confirmatory serologic tests. In infected patients who survive long enough to develop an immune response, the immunoglobulin M (IgM) and immunoglobulin G (IgG) enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA) tests may be useful in the diagnosis of Ebola virus infection. Both ELISA tests have been demonstrated to be sensitive and specific."

-------------------

Diagnostic testing for Ebola Performed At CDC Interim Guidelines Oct 20, 2014

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/hcp/in...ssion-patients-suspected-infection-ebola.html

 

[jjenny]

OF COURSE it would. Nausea is a GI symptom, but that is NOT the same thing as vomiting.

I work in a GI lab. Abdominal pain, queasiness, nausea, indigestion, flatulence, ALL are common "GI symptoms" that are NOT vomiting or diarrhea.

Per published msm report, he was vomiting. If he really had no symptoms on Wednesday, but got high fever and vomiting on Thursday morning, his symptoms seem to have come on very fast.

 

[Hatfield]

So he was in fact vomiting.

That is what I am gathering as well. In addition, I had heard on CNN that he felt sick (i.e, run down) 2 days before he actually became really sick today. Being a doctor that had just come from the infected area, he should have known IMO that as soon as he started to feel even slightly different or "run down", he should have immediately gone to the hospital to be checked. Instead, he carries on like nothing is happening and goes to restarant , goes bowling, etc.

If his girlfriend or anybody else gets Ebola, I am going to be even more upset than I already am.

The officials have to learn that we cannot trust people to do the right thing. They are going to have to force us to do the right thing, and if that means travel bans and isolation periods of travelers, then so be it.
Just please treat this disease with the urgency it needs. Please.

 

[SStarr33]

MSF Protocols for Staff Returning from Ebola-Affected Countries

October 23, 2014

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.or...ocial&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=social

 

[jjenny]

That is what I am gathering as well. In addition, I had heard on CNN that he felt sick (i.e, run down) 2 days before he actually became really sick today. Being a doctor that had just come from the infected area, he should have known IMO that as soon as he started to feel even slightly different or "run down", he should have immediately gone to the hospital to be checked. Instead, he carries on like nothing is happening and goes to restarant , goes bowling, etc.

If his girlfriend or anybody else gets Ebola, I am going to be even more upset than I already am.

The officials have to learn that we cannot trust people to do the right thing. They are going to have to force us to do the right thing, and if that means travel bans and isolation periods of travelers, then so be it.
Just please treat this disease with the urgency it needs. Please.

I have to agree. I was just reading about another doctor who came from Africa. He self-isolated. He didn't go out. He had relatives bringing food for 21 days.
But we obviously can not count on everybody to be responsible like that.
So we might have to make them.

 

[nrdsb4]

Dr. Craig Spencer, 33, was hauled off Thursday to Bellevue Hospital in a protective suit with symptoms of the deadly disease. Sources said his temperature was normal when he landed at Kennedy Airport 10 days ago. But it spiked to a 103-degree fever by early Thursday. And he was vomiting, the sources said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ients-rushed-bellevue-fever-article-1.1984941

I think the terminology "hauled off" is rather inflammatory rather than "transported by ambulance." I wonder why they made that word choice?

 

[chipmunk]

If you scroll down there is a list of the most common symptoms and signs in the current 2014 West African outbreak.
Note they don't include the bleeding of orifices.

http://www.uptodate.com/contents/ep...festations-of-ebola-and-marburg-virus-disease

 

[nrdsb4]

When Amber tested negative so quickly it make me wonder about the rate of false positives. I don't have a clear answer except that it's fairly low. It's interesting to see what tests are available to use and how to interpret them.

http://globalbiodefense.com/2014/08/11/dod-ebola-diagnostic-approved-emergency-use

The same thought occurred to me. Is the protocol now to do two tests within 48 hours, or only two tests within 48 hours if the first test is negative?

 

[nrdsb4]

That is what I am gathering as well. In addition, I had heard on CNN that he felt sick (i.e, run down) 2 days before he actually became really sick today. Being a doctor that had just come from the infected area, he should have known IMO that as soon as he started to feel even slightly different or "run down", he should have immediately gone to the hospital to be checked. Instead, he carries on like nothing is happening and goes to restarant , goes bowling, etc.

If his girlfriend or anybody else gets Ebola, I am going to be even more upset than I already am.

The officials have to learn that we cannot trust people to do the right thing. They are going to have to force us to do the right thing, and if that means travel bans and isolation periods of travelers, then so be it.
Just please treat this disease with the urgency it needs. Please.

If he had unprotected sexual relations with her, it really does emphasize the concept of extreme denial, and that's probably being very generous with terminology. Of course, we don't know necessarily what they mean by "physical contact." I left for work today at 5:30 am and kissed my husband on the forehead as he slept like I always do. That's "physical contact," though clearly not sexual relations.

 

[gngr~snap]

Who knows what they mean by gastrointestinal "symptoms"
That indicates more than one. Surely it wasn't just heartburn and flatulence...
One article says he was vomiting, another says diarrhea...
At any rate, I am going with his viral load being too low to infect the public (hopefully not his fiance either )

"On Tuesday he began to feel tired and developed a fever and diarrhoea on Thursday"
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29751495

"A health care worker at the hospital said that Dr. Spencer seemed very sick, and it was unclear to the medical staff why he had not gone to the hospital earlier, since his fever was high."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/2...hospital-in-new-york-city.html?_r=0&referrer=

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[chipmunk]

http://www.livescience.com/48182-why-ebola-causes-bleeding.html

Only 18% of patients in the current outbreak have hemorrhagic syndrome. This is why it stayed under the radar for so long. Without the bleeding it looks very much like malaria and typhoid.

This has to be an estimate though since probably around half of the patients aren't seen by medics.

 

[nrdsb4]

Who knows what they mean by gastrointestinal "symptoms"
That indicates more than one. Surely it wasn't just heartburn and flatulence...
One article says he was vomiting, another says diarrhea...
At any rate, I am going with his viral load being too low to infect the public (hopefully not his fiance either )

"On Tuesday he began to feel tired and developed a fever and diarrhoea on Thursday"
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-29751495

"A health care worker at the hospital said that Dr. Spencer seemed very sick, and it was unclear to the medical staff why he had not gone to the hospital earlier, since his fever was high."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/10/2...hospital-in-new-york-city.html?_r=0&referrer=

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By the time they get to profuse diarrhea and vomiting, the viral load is usually getting up there. But, as it's been repeated numerous times, Mr. Duncan was experiencing those symptoms at his apartment and 25+ days later, no one around him has become ill. It seems to defy logic, but there it is.

 

[nrdsb4]

CNN is saying that no one has even yet gone inside his apartment, only sealed it off on the outside. It's very hard to get the sense that you are getting all the facts from these news outlets.

 

[gngr~snap]

By the time they get to profuse diarrhea and vomiting, the viral load is usually getting up there. But, as it's been repeated numerous times, Mr. Duncan was experiencing those symptoms at his apartment and 25+ days later, no one around him has become ill. It seems to defy logic, but there it is.

His fiance Ms Troh, was a nursing assistant, maybe she knew just enough to keep them from contracting it???
I don't see how if they were sleeping together... I am happy she's OK. To have the son lose both parents would be heart breaking!

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