Ebola outbreak - general thread #9

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SStarr33 said:
The only thing that is going to discourage them is the lack of a three week vacation post visit to Ebolaville added to the fact that Brantley, Writebol, Sacra, Mystery Pt, Ashok and Spencer caught the disease. And none of them know exactly how they got it.
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They might not know exactly how they got it, but chances are very good that there was an accidental breach when donning or doffing PPE.
 
SStarr33 said:
CDC new video on donning and doffing PPE. See if you can find all of the freaking violations of aseptic technique. SMH

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/833907
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I'm not medically trained and I saw a bunch! Oh my gosh, is this actually a real training video?? Or is it one if those training videos they give to medics so they can identify what not to do?

I suppose it's better than what was happening until recently:

http://mashable.com/2014/10/15/dallas-nurses-sloppy-ebola/
 
SStarr33 said:
The only thing that is going to discourage them is the lack of a three week vacation post visit to Ebolaville added to the fact that Brantley, Writebol, Sacra, Mystery Pt, Ashok and Spencer caught the disease. And none of them know exactly how they got it.
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Wow, you mean not a one remembers being around a symptomatic patient without PPE?
Or
Are they all just that bad in their technique of donning and doffing PPE
Or
Perhaps an " unknown variable"
 
Detective Klimpt said:
Gitana is referring to my post.
No, I think the quarantine should apply to HCW's treating patients in USA as well. How that can be accomplished is another problem for which I don't have solution. That's why I'm just an ordinary citizen not in a decision making position.

I read somewhere (I'll try to find it if anyone is interested) that HCW's treating Spencer are going home each night and that there is zero (yes, that's a quote) chance of spreading ebola to anyone. They may hug and kiss their loved ones. I don't recall if it was the NYC mayor or a hospital official that said that.

It makes no sense to me for each state to have their own policy. When it comes to quarantine, what applies to one should apply to another.

Lastly, as I've written before, I do not see what the big deal is to be quarantined such that it would discourage someone from serving in Africa.
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Thanks for clarifying. I think many people would shy from going overseas for extended periods, often unpaid, and then have to be unable to return to normal life, be with family and friends, go back to work, for almost a month.

<modsnip>



The doctors going over there and coming back are American doctors employing first world, American health care protocols and procedures. They don't suddenly become ignorant, third world bushman who don't know how to prevent infection.
 
gitana1 said:
<modsnip> The doctors going over there and coming back are American doctors employing first world, American health care protocols and procedures. They don't suddenly become ignorant, third world bushman who don't know how to prevent infection.
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Right, but that still doesn't really justify a quarantine. Someone who looks for symptoms and takes action upon showing them has very little risk of infecting anyone except for the health workers. The problem is people who aren't educated or are afraid, and don't report symptoms. That's more likely to happen in Liberia, for a variety of reasons - stigma, ignorance, lack of hospitals, lack of money, fear, not seeking out medical treatment until symptoms are serious, etc. The American public could also have issues with a lot of these things and make foolish choices, but few of them have been exposed. And the hospital conditions definitely are not as good over there and so it would be a lot easier for any doctor to slip up, although clearly it happened here as well.
 
fruity said:
I'm not medically trained and I saw a bunch! Oh my gosh, is this actually a real training video?? Or is it one if those training videos they give to medics so they can identify what not to do?

I suppose it's better than what was happening until recently:

http://mashable.com/2014/10/15/dallas-nurses-sloppy-ebola/
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The video is the official CDC video. Right on the page it says:

Video Instructions From the CDC

And you don't get a source better than Medscape.

Do we have a list anywhere of all the CDC screw ups?
 
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/exposure/qas-monitoring-and-movement-guidance.html

CDC updated its Interim U.S. Guidance for Monitoring and Movement of Persons with Potential Ebola Virus Exposure.

How did the updated guidelines change from the old guidelines?

The updated guidance has 4 key changes:

New risk levels are given for people who may have been exposed to Ebola and for those not at risk for the disease.
The guidance recommends stricter actions for the High, Some, and Low risk levels based on the type of exposure to Ebola.
State and local public health departments are advised to use active monitoring or direct active monitoring for Ebola symptoms rather than allowing people to monitor themselves.
Specific guidance is given about monitoring healthcare workers who have taken care of patients with Ebola.

Rest of the details at the link
 
gitana1 said:
I really understood the points in this post until the last sentence. I think that attitude is likely behind the push by some to quarantine only health care workers who have helped people in Africa, which, IMO, is punitive and illogical and meant, ultimately, to punish them for deciding to assist some foreign element. I find it xenophobic and nationalistic.

Further, nationalistic isolationist attitudes are naive, at best, IMO. We do not exist in a vacuum. We are all members of the human race, all equally deserving. An us against them attitude when it comes to lifeboat ethics can actually harm rather than help us. Because if no one is treating and helping prevent the spread of disease outside of our borders, how the heck can that have no impact on us? What happens in one part of the world affects the rest of it via a domino effect. Any massive, major shifts in populations, health statuses, poverty levels, etc., in one area, creates ripple effects that eventually impact the planet as a whole.
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While the concept above sounds very nice it is most certainly NOT a moral absolute. Many people would say they have a moral/ethical obligation to take care of their OWN first

My ethics dictate that my loved ones are my FIRST priority; period. In my case mostly my own animals. It is my responsibility and moral obligation to protect them above all others. I expect others to feel the same. If you can help others great, but not if you put your own at risk or make them suffer in the process. Beyond that my immediate loyalty goes to my community, then state, then country.

Secondly the whole thing about this having a domino effect is something I really question. That sounds nice but please point out the REAL potential downsides here. Please provide specifics regarding how the world would suffer if sub-Saharan Africa were isolated.

Would it cause major food shortages in other areas? Would it cause a worldwide oil shortage? Would the world suffer when the factories in Sub-Saharan Africa stopped turning out goods that everyone else depended on causing widespread economic problems?

If folks believe they should be helped that is understandable, but stating opinion as FACT (i.e. horrible domino effect for everyone else if the area were isolated) is not okay. Yes I realize the export of cocoa and some minerals may be effected, I don't consider that to be a "huge crisis" for the rest of the world but perhaps I am missing something and need to be educated. Links detailing the specific repercussions would be appreciated.
 
Sorry if this was posted.

http://www.businessweek.com/article...ia-ebola-survivors-find-they-have-superpowers

''Survivors, Portnoy says, are playing an increasing role in caring for the sick and the effort outside the wards to halt the epidemic. Ebola survivors are immune to the virus for as long as three months. This means they can risk getting close to those with symptoms, and even touch them&#8212;something that&#8217;s especially helpful with children, a number of whom are separated from their families. &#8220;It&#8217;s kind of like a superpower,''

Awesome ! I am so glad those who have survived are able and willing to help!~
 
SStarr33 said:
I'm not from Maine, so I'm not familiar with what has happened there. On what other whims have Maine officials locked people up?
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Not sure, but he may be referring to the teacher who went to Dallas for a symposium, was not exposed to anything or anyone connected to ebola, but was put on a forced leave of absence and not allowed to work because parents insisted upon it due to some perceived risk to their children. She was not locked up, and I don't know if she had to agree to any kind of self-isolation terms. But the fact remains that the school board caved to completely irrational fears rather than using it as a teaching moment.
 
Ebola-carrying bats may be heroes as well as villains, Reuters, By Ben Hirschler

"Bats can carry more than 100 different viruses, including Ebola...without becoming sick themselves... "If we can understand how they do it then that could lead to better ways to treat infections that are highly lethal in people and other mammals," said Olivier Restif, a researcher at the University of Cambridge in Britain."

http://news.yahoo.com/ebola-carrying-bats-may-heroes-well-villains-105559017.html
 
BirdycatNY said:
Ebola-carrying bats may be heroes as well as villains, Reuters, By Ben Hirschler

"Bats can carry more than 100 different viruses, including Ebola...without becoming sick themselves... "If we can understand how they do it then that could lead to better ways to treat infections that are highly lethal in people and other mammals," said Olivier Restif, a researcher at the University of Cambridge in Britain."

http://news.yahoo.com/ebola-carrying-bats-may-heroes-well-villains-105559017.html
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They eat fried bats in China. You cannot believe the smell as you walk by a sidewalk booth where they are cooking them! They display them on long sticks - I like ethnic foods but had to draw the line there.
 
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