Egypt Air flight 804 missing, 19 May 2016

[Jersey*Girl]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/investi...light-804-automated-warning-system-1463954393

By

Andy Pasztor And Robert Wall

May 22, 2016 5:59 p.m. ET

The sequence of events immediately after the warnings were sent to the ground—and why they weren’t followed by a flurry of other messages covering faults in other systems controlled from the same electronics compartment—poses one of the biggest puzzles confronting investigators and other air-safety experts. The systems messages suggest smoke or fire in what is called the avionics bay, located under the cabin floor and behind the cockpit. But such an event should have prompted many more fault messages, affecting a larger group of circuits, than the seven investigators have determined were transmitted before the crash, according to several people familiar with the details.

One possible explanation for why the warning messages stopped is that the plane abruptly lost electric power. That presumably would have shut off the autopilot and most computerized flight-management systems.

Experts already have analyzed more than 25 years of safety data from the world-wide A320 fleet, according to one person familiar with the details, to try to pinpoint relevant electrical problems affecting the forward avionics compartment. So far nothing in that historical database fits the pattern of fault messages that occurred before the EgyptAir crash, this person said.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/egyptair-flight-804-probe-turns-to-planes-moves-1463961379

Investigators are looking at stops that EgyptAir Flight 804 made in the days before the plane crashed on Thursday. Above, an EgyptAir plane approaches Cairo International Airport on Saturday. Photo: Amr Nabil/Associated Press

By
Jon Ostrower,
Robert Wall and
Margaret Coker
May 22, 2016 7:56 p.m. ET

Investigators are focused on any weak links in security at airports the plane visited before its final flight, officials said. Four of the five—Brussels, Tunis, Paris and Cairo—were already the subject of heightened terror-related scrutiny because of recent attacks in those countries.

Now the various probes must focus on areas such as passenger screening, baggage and cargo, starting with Paris and extending to all the airports. French authorities are poring over surveillance footage at Charles de Gaulle, focusing specifically on who had contact with the aircraft and the baggage loaded onto the plane. From cabin cleaners and caterers to pilots and passengers, hundreds of people were close enough to the plane to be dangerous.

 

[Gigi-G]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/egyptair-flight-804-probe-turns-to-planes-moves-1463961379

Investigators are looking at stops that EgyptAir Flight 804 made in the days before the plane crashed on Thursday. Above, an EgyptAir plane approaches Cairo International Airport on Saturday. Photo: Amr Nabil/Associated Press

By
Jon Ostrower,
Robert Wall and
Margaret Coker
May 22, 2016 7:56 p.m. ET

Totally agree. Nice find

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Jersey*Girl]

http://6abc.com/news/first-photos-of-egyptair-804-debris-released/1349325/

SMOKE, COCKPIT WOES SIGNAL CHAOTIC END FOR EGYPTAIR PLANE
AP
Sunday, May 22, 2016 12:16AM
Satter reported from Paris. Angela Charlton and Brian Rohan in Paris, and Demetris Nellas in Athens contributed to this report.

David Learmount, a widely respected aviation expert and editor of the authoritative Flightglobal magazine, said Aviation Herald's reported readings from the plane's Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System, or ACARS, suggested a quick-spreading fire.

On his website, Learmount wrote: "The question now is whether the fire that caused the smoke was the result of an electrical fault - for example a short-circuit caused by damaged wiring - or whether some form of explosive or incendiary device was used."

In the absence of a claim of responsibility, it's still unclear whether the crash was the result of a fault or an attack, Learmount wrote.

Egyptian aviation expert Hossam Elhamy Shaker said the presence of smoke on board alone does not solve the mystery.

"It just leads us into an area where smoke is a major contributor to the incident, either by destroying the aircraft's equipment or suffocating the pilots," he said.

Baum was skeptical that a fire alone was the reason the plane went down.

"Fires happen aboard aircraft, but they don't usually result in the destruction of the aircraft in three minutes," he said.

Some have wondered at the lack of a mayday signal, but Baum said that could make sense if the crew were unconscious or struggling to regain control of the aircraft.

 

[LinasK]

Wth is with people not having their passports checked, in this day and age?! I have NEVER arrived in another country and not been checked out: how the hell does it happen?!

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

Our cruise ship stopped in Canada on the way back from Alaska two years ago and we got off and went to Victoria but were never asked for our passports, even though the cruise required us to get them. But driving across the Mexican border to Tijuana- they are now required.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Found this. Can it be used at all for those familiar with flying an Airbus 320?

http://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/A320-Electrical.pdf

 

[CARIIS]

Found this. Can it be used at all for those familiar with flying an Airbus 320?

http://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/A320-Electrical.pdf

Kinda think there was no checklist for what was coming at them, and I am still not sure were talking fire as oppossed to metal fatigue/decompression that started at their windshied. j mo

Decompression is a rough, cold, loud . disorietning thing when you can not breathe. Mechanical explains the fact that there was "time"-- a process of deteriation in the aircraft as oppossed to this sudden complete blow up.

The frist descend was controled. Means IMO pilots still had the aircraft in their control moo and then after the rapid dive she just went ka poop and lost structural integrity.

For them to have gotten her down, to that level, had to, some remarkable flying skills.

Even though this really could be a mechanical issue at fault, I can't help but wonder that if it turns out to be terrorism then these cells must have some pretty good engineers on their side. Also, if terrorism is involved, they must know about the fault with the windows because how ironic if a fire broke out and it was fueled by the rapid oxygen in the air being fed to it through those blown out windows?

I keep going back to the windows being decompression

It could even have been a situation like this one taken to the next level..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ger-munich-germany-hamburg-diverted-1.3595838

Just weird, yesterday when I woke up it was like this is not terrorism , its a plane that just got tired, something shifted, cause some wires to spark, reulsting in decompression ,and ultimatly a loss of control. Its ACARS and the photos, and that report of there being a distress contact, that corresponds with not a sudden loss at 37...IMO there was a battle

But where I am getting confused is why would they try to bury it, then I say greed, they (the airline) know they were running her way above normal. It is the first accident where I can not find cycles for the aircraft, if you go back to toehr accidents, after the third or fourth day you will get. in the media. the aricraft,, model numbe,r was purcchased on x, had xx number of cycles, was powered by XX - history of aircraft.

Found this for reference but I'm confused - why are rows 4 through 19 omitted, or do they simply not exist?

http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/egyptair/a320

THAT is strange my dear!!. Truly. never seen anything like that. Its like the nonsense of 13 in an elevator but worse, very strange !! Good find!

 

[gregjrichards]

Airbus cabin smoke awareness flight operations briefing notes indicate what crew should do http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/med...ms/AirbusSafetyLib_-FLT_OPS-CAB_OPS-SEQ06.pdf

 

[CARIIS]

Believe it or not there is a relationship between oursleves. We do learn stuff about each other. Sorry for the sidestep, feeling emotinal, my mothers lover of 40 years looks like he is going to die from stomach cancer, I am going to have to go down there. I am 58, have been to one funeral in my life,jewish, for some reason we stand in a line and throw a shovel of dirt in the hole. If anyone here can let me know why we do that I am all ears! I found it disgusting. I am older now and for whatever the reason for it is, I will never do it again. I remeber it being tramamatic for me.

I thought it was disgusting, how I got to typing this I do not know, but as a therapist,I do know. I am having a hard time with all this. Selfishly, I do not want to be away from my doggie, dispise driving, hate hospitals, am very againist pain and discomfort, do not know what to do to help my mother, just a mess. It was not till today when she emailed me (she emailed a couple of weeks ago , in the context I may need you to come down and drive me) - how on earth until today, I did connect it to him dying befuddles me.

I thought of course I will drive down there and help my mother get to dr appt for him. Stomach cancer, what was I thinking? It was like a task, (I dig him need person). Not even aware of my own (clueless) feelings about him being gone. Its strange. Hey therapists are the craziest people on the planet!!

Sorry for digression, but yes, I wanted to share -thats what therapists thrive on!!!!! I do not grasp how I did not connect the dots. Of course I will come down and help drive you. Its to doctors offices ? What did I think this about? Going shopping. How did I miss this is going to be about my mothers lover of 40 years dying? I swear to you all- death never ever in this crossed my mind.

How can that be? Not only for my mother , but it was not until today when I got her email, that I am going to miss him. My biggest shock, is my shock this minute what was I thinking?

This is all very strange - then there is this other voice that maybe I ought to be gratefull that at this age I have only been to one funeral? But in a way that makes it harder its new. I think we should all be Irish - party! Celebrate the life. Trust me . that is not how Jewish do it - the one (uncle I was young) it is morbid .

In my brain I am going ok i have to get my "go" bag together. Just like the NTSB.I am gonna call around down there see if I can find a hotel I can smoke in and have my doggie with me all at once. Dreaming huh!

And then right now its like guilt - I should not be on here talking about the plane crash. Then it is like (self talk!) what exactly is it you think you should be doing . Its midnight. You will, tommorow move on and get ready for this. What is wrong with right now catching up with you all about this. Nothing . But still fell like I should be doing something different. Exactly what that is a midnight is totally stupid. Like I said therapists are the craest people on earth. Its about , in terms of being a really good one, knowing how your own stuff might impact your work, being aware of that, and making sure you do not let that happen.And, yes. for my 17 years I was well aware of my stuff, and I did not let it impact my work, and in the instances when it did, I owned it, and found my pts a colleague that did not trigger my stuff - we are all human first !!


Sorry for the digression and thank you for listening.

 

[gregjrichards]

Believe it or not there is a relationship between oursleves. We do learn stuff about each other. Sorry for the sidestep, feeling emotinal, my mothers lover of 40 years looks like he is going to die from stomach cancer, I am going to have to go down there. I am 58, have been to one funeral in my life,jewish, for some reason we stand in a line and throw a shovel of dirt in the hole. If anyone here can let me know why we do that I am all ears! I found it disgusting. I am older now and for whatever the reason for it is, I will never do it again. I remeber it being tramamatic for me.

I thought it was disgusting, how I got to typing this I do not know, but as a therapist,I do know. I am having a hard time with all this. Selfishly, I do not want to be away from my doggie, dispise driving, hate hospitals, am very againist pain and discomfort, do not know what to do to help my mother, just a mess. It was not till today when she emailed me (she emailed a couple of weeks ago , in the context I may need you to come down and drive me) - how on earth until today, I did connect it to him dying befuddles me.

I thought of course I will drive down there and help my mother get to dr appt for him. Stomach cancer, what was I thinking? It was like a task, (I dig him need person). Not even aware of my own (clueless) feelings about him being gone. Its strange. Hey therapists are the craziest people on the planet!!

Sorry for digression, but yes, I wanted to share -thats what therapists thrive on!!!!! I do not grasp how I did not connect the dots. Of course I will come down and help drive you. Its to doctors offices ? What did I think this about? Going shopping. How did I miss this is going to be about my mothers lover of 40 years dying? I swear to you all- death never ever in this crossed my mind.

How can that be? Not only for my mother , but it was not until today when I got her email, that I am going to miss him. My biggest shock, is my shock this minute what was I thinking?

This is all very strange - then there is this other voice that maybe I ought to be gratefull that at this age I have only been to one funeral? But in a way that makes it harder its new. I think we should all be Irish - party! Celebrate the life. Trust me . that is not how Jewish do it - the one (uncle I was young) it is morbid .

In my brain I am going ok i have to get my "go" bag together. Just like the NTSB.I am gonna call around down there see if I can find a hotel I can smoke in and have my doggie with me all at once. Dreaming huh!

And then right now its like guilt - I should not be on here talking about the plane crash. Then it is like (self talk!) what exactly is it you think you should be doing . Its midnight. You will, tommorow move on and get ready for this. What is wrong with right now catching up with you all about this. Nothing . But still fell like I should be doing something different. Exactly what that is a midnight is totally stupid. Like I said therapists are the craest people on earth. Its about , in terms of being a really good one, knowing how your own stuff might impact your work, being aware of that, and making sure you do not let that happen.And, yes. for my 17 years I was well aware of my stuff, and I did not let it impact my work, and in the instances when it did, I owned it, and found my pts a colleague that did not trigger my stuff - we are all human first !!


Sorry for the digression and thank you for listening.

I'm so sorry CARIIS it is very difficult when a much loved family member is terminally ill. It will be a difficult time for you & your Mom. I hope you manage to take your dog with you as it will be a comfort for you. I understand how you feel about burials I remember standing at my Granmother's grave when I was a teenager and it was very traumatic. I was once told loved ones put Earth on top of the coffin to help bury the loved one so they can be free to descend to heaven it was a nice way to put it. I send my best wishes at this difficult time and thank you for all your informative posts here.

 

[perfectingpink]

Believe it or not there is a relationship between oursleves. We do learn stuff about each other. Sorry for the sidestep, feeling emotinal, my mothers lover of 40 years looks like he is going to die from stomach cancer, I am going to have to go down there. I am 58, have been to one funeral in my life,jewish, for some reason we stand in a line and throw a shovel of dirt in the hole. If anyone here can let me know why we do that I am all ears! I found it disgusting. I am older now and for whatever the reason for it is, I will never do it again. I remeber it being tramamatic for me.

I thought it was disgusting, how I got to typing this I do not know, but as a therapist,I do know. I am having a hard time with all this. Selfishly, I do not want to be away from my doggie, dispise driving, hate hospitals, am very againist pain and discomfort, do not know what to do to help my mother, just a mess. It was not till today when she emailed me (she emailed a couple of weeks ago , in the context I may need you to come down and drive me) - how on earth until today, I did connect it to him dying befuddles me.

I thought of course I will drive down there and help my mother get to dr appt for him. Stomach cancer, what was I thinking? It was like a task, (I dig him need person). Not even aware of my own (clueless) feelings about him being gone. Its strange. Hey therapists are the craziest people on the planet!!

Sorry for digression, but yes, I wanted to share -thats what therapists thrive on!!!!! I do not grasp how I did not connect the dots. Of course I will come down and help drive you. Its to doctors offices ? What did I think this about? Going shopping. How did I miss this is going to be about my mothers lover of 40 years dying? I swear to you all- death never ever in this crossed my mind.

How can that be? Not only for my mother , but it was not until today when I got her email, that I am going to miss him. My biggest shock, is my shock this minute what was I thinking?

This is all very strange - then there is this other voice that maybe I ought to be gratefull that at this age I have only been to one funeral? But in a way that makes it harder its new. I think we should all be Irish - party! Celebrate the life. Trust me . that is not how Jewish do it - the one (uncle I was young) it is morbid .

In my brain I am going ok i have to get my "go" bag together. Just like the NTSB.I am gonna call around down there see if I can find a hotel I can smoke in and have my doggie with me all at once. Dreaming huh!

And then right now its like guilt - I should not be on here talking about the plane crash. Then it is like (self talk!) what exactly is it you think you should be doing . Its midnight. You will, tommorow move on and get ready for this. What is wrong with right now catching up with you all about this. Nothing . But still fell like I should be doing something different. Exactly what that is a midnight is totally stupid. Like I said therapists are the craest people on earth. Its about , in terms of being a really good one, knowing how your own stuff might impact your work, being aware of that, and making sure you do not let that happen.And, yes. for my 17 years I was well aware of my stuff, and I did not let it impact my work, and in the instances when it did, I owned it, and found my pts a colleague that did not trigger my stuff - we are all human first !!


Sorry for the digression and thank you for listening.

:hug:

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Our cruise ship stopped in Canada on the way back from Alaska two years ago and we got off and went to Victoria but were never asked for our passports, even though the cruise required us to get them. But driving across the Mexican border to Tijuana- they are now required.

It's the same when travelling between the UK and Ireland. For historical reasons we have been our own "mini Schengen" for several centuries.

 

[emirates1957]

I have another question...

In the A320, with the restroom being right behind the cockpit, would that be first class / business class? Assuming an additional restroom would be located in the rear of the plane, would the standard paying customer be able to utilize the restroom in the front of the plane if they sat right behind the top section, or would they be required to use the rear restroom? I'm wondering because that could possibly limit the amount of persons to be checked out if this turns out to not be a mechanical fault. Then again, with the layover in Paris to be an hour or less, any other person sitting in that front section would need to be looked at as well.

Re the mechanics of the plane, is it possible that wires or a wiring box could be located between the wall of the restroom and the cockpit?

My thoughts only, I do not believe there was a first class zone however there will be a lav at the front of the AC for business pax to utilize. Economy pax would use the rear lav and be declined the front. Lav fires are easily extinguished.

 

[emirates1957]

Thank you very much! Ok so next question is - does the pilot sit on the right or the left in the cockpit? Does it differ from plane to plane or is it standard in all? It looks like the front restroom is to the left and the galley is directly across from it to the right? So not only could something have happened in the restroom, something could also have occurred in the galley. Is there a microwave or some type of heating device? Some kind of electricity that could have had faulty wiring?

Fyi, just thinking outside the box atm.

Captain left hand seat First Officer right hand sear standard worldwide.

 

[catatonia]

French television channel M6 says pilot Mohamed Said Shoukair, 37, had “a conversation several minutes long” with Cairo air traffic control about the presence of smoke in parts of the aircraft and said he would attempt an emergency descent to try and clear the air.

The New York Post reports that after the flight vanished, an EgyptAir spokesman said there was a distress call from the aircraft, but the statement was later refuted by the Egyptian military and subsequently withdrawn by the airline.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...ake-distress-call_uk_5742d837e4b0e71ef36d63ab

Egypt’s Minister of Aviation Sherif Fathy denied that a distress call had been made.

He said: "There was a mistake made by an official somewhere.

"He talked about a signal and then a few minutes after he came back and apologized, and he came back and said ‘sorry there was no signal’.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/egyptair-plane-crash-officials-accused-8030246

 

[Jersey*Girl]

The First Officer in a fixed wing A/C sits on the right hand side. In a helicopter however it's the left side.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Captain left hand seat First Officer right hand sear standard worldwide.

Thanks you guys. Ok, so this is what I'm getting at...

The lavatory is located behind the cockpit - left front of the plane. The pilot sits at the front left in the cockpit directly in front of the lavatory. The galley is located at the front right of the plane directly across from the lavatory. The copilot sits at the front right of the plane directly in front of the galley. The smoke and fire originated under the toilet. So what is perplexing to me is if the fire broke out on the left front side of the plane, then why was the most extensive damage done to the right front windshield and right front window directly in front of and beside the copilot?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I also wonder what the seating arrangement was. The 3 air marshals that were on this flight - is it known where they were seated? Would there have been 1 in with standard seating and 2 in business class to protect the cockpit? Or 2 in standard seating and 1 in business class?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Is it possible that someone maybe planted a device in the lavatory prior to flight and triggered it remotely while something was being heated in the galley so as to do the most damage to the front of the plane? If the pilot was taken out or became incapacitated, where would the emergency remote cruise panel or controls be located? Would the copilot area have the exact same controls as the pilot area?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I thought I read that EgyptAir contracts outside catering. Where is the catering loaded? Would it be loaded upon leaving Paris going to Cairo, or would it be before?

 

[gregjrichards]

I thought I read that EgyptAir contracts outside catering. Where is the catering loaded? Would it be loaded upon leaving Paris going to Cairo, or would it be before?

It would be loaded during the turn around for each flight I'd imagine there isn't the space in the aircraft to store enough food for multiple flights.