Egypt Air flight 804 missing, 19 May 2016

[Jersey*Girl]

So - no black boxes yet??

:tyou: in advance!

They know approximately where they are. A sub has been deployed by Egypt to go retrieve them.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

The guy had flown in from the U.S.

In this case, either the people at CDG really did screw up (possibly because attention was focused on the news of the Egyptair flight) or perhaps there's some arrangement whereby passengers who have been extensively screened in the US are not re-screened on arrival in France. Otherwise, no idea!

 

[MelmothTheLost]

So - no black boxes yet??

It's likely to take a short while to retrieve them. The Med is deeper than you might expect - over 17,000 feet at its deepest. That's actually as deep as the area that's being searched for MH370.

 

[Gigi-G]

I know it's the Daily Fail. But a good read.

Locator beacon from doomed EgyptAir plane 'detected on seabed' http://dailym.ai/242XirE via http://dailym.ai/android

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[Jersey*Girl]

I have a question. Here in he USA we have something called TSA PreCheck which makes it faster for low risk travelers to go through security and customs. Is this same type of service available worldwide? Was anything similar to our PreCheck available with this downed flight?

For reference:
https://www.tsa.gov/tsa-precheck

 

[Jersey*Girl]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ke-detected-inside-the-aircraft-cabin-as-sea/

EgyptAir crash: Flight data points to 'internal explosion' on plane once daubed with graffiti saying 'We will bring this plane down'

Raf Sanchez, in cairo Magdy Samaan, in cairo
22 MAY 2016 • 7:54AM

A commercial pilot with a major European airline told The Telegraph that other parts of the data log suggested that windows in the right side of the cockpit were blown out by an explosion inside the aircraft.
"It looks like the right front and side window were blown out, most probably from inside out," said the pilot, who flies an A330 similar to the crashed A320 and spoke on condition of anonymity.

Three different warnings showed there were faults in the windows next to the co-pilot, suggesting they could have been blasted outwards by an onboard bomb. That does not mean the explosion came from the cockpit but indicates the right side of the plane was more badly damaged than the left.

The pilot suggested the smoke detectors may have been triggered not fire but by fog which filled the cabin as it lost air pressure in the moments after the explosion.

Although no terrorist group has claimed responsibility, French detectives are examining a pool of around 85,000 people with "red badge" security clearance that gives them access to restricted areas of Charles de Gaulle airport.

The task is complicated by the fact that many work for sub-contractors and turnover is high. Screenings are often limited to checking an employee has no criminal convictions and does not appear on a terror watch list.

Last December around 70 red badges were withdrawn from staff at Charles de Gaulle who were found to have praised the attacks in Paris, prayed at mosques linked to radicalism or showing signs of growing religiosity like refusing to shake hands with women.

 

[catatonia]

Since the plane had stops in Tunis, Eritrea and Cairo, does anyone know how thoroughly the security measures there are? I just keep reading they're supposed to be insufficient, but couldn't find more precise information on that matter.

Flightradar24 listed details of the plane’s journey on Wednesday which showed it had flown from Asmara, in Eritrea, to Cairo, then on to Tunis, in Tunisia, before heading, via Cairo, to Paris.

In an advisory last May, the State Department warned security at the Asmara International Airport in Eritrea can be “unpredictable” and that “airport security lacks technology to detect fraudulent documents.”

Last November, after the midair destruction of a Russian Metrojet over Egypt, the Daily Mail reported British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond expressed concern about security at airports in the Middle East and North Africa. Tunisia was singled out by the newspaper’s report.

Among these countries are the airports in the North African cities of Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia.

All these countries contain an ISIS presence, though Tunisia – the site of two massacres this year in which 31 Britons were killed – remains the most risky.

Tunisian authorities have warned further attacks in tourist resorts are highly likely – and by unknown individuals ‘inspired by terrorist groups via social media’.

Tunisia is a known Islamic State stronghold. Last November, IS militants took responsibility for the suicide bombing of a presidential guard bus, killing at least 12 troops. As Reuters reported, more than 3,000 Tunisians are said to be fighting for the Islamic State or other jihadist groups in Iraq, Syria and Libya, with some threatening to return to Tunisia to carry out jihad domestically.

Eritrea, home to a brutal dictatorship described by the Guardian newspaper as a “regime of terror,” is also known as the site from which a large number of Mideast migrants attempt to journey to Europe. Last Thursday, Ethiopia authorities said that they foiled a plot by Eritrean jihadists to stage a terror attack in the country.

In an interview with this reporter, Abu al-Ayna al-Ansari, a top jihadi operative in the Gaza Strip associated with IS ideology, claimed IS has agents working in Western airports, metro stations, and “very sensitive facilities in the world.”

http://www.*********.com/jerusalem/...lane-first-traveled-hotspots-tunisia-eritrea/

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I have another question...

In the A320, with the restroom being right behind the cockpit, would that be first class / business class? Assuming an additional restroom would be located in the rear of the plane, would the standard paying customer be able to utilize the restroom in the front of the plane if they sat right behind the top section, or would they be required to use the rear restroom? I'm wondering because that could possibly limit the amount of persons to be checked out if this turns out to not be a mechanical fault. Then again, with the layover in Paris to be an hour or less, any other person sitting in that front section would need to be looked at as well.

Re the mechanics of the plane, is it possible that wires or a wiring box could be located between the wall of the restroom and the cockpit?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Found this for reference but I'm confused - why are rows 4 through 19 omitted, or do they simply not exist?

http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/egyptair/a320

Egyptair (airline code MS) is the national carrier of Egypt, based at Cairo International airport. It is a member of the Star Alliance and has a fleet of around 80 aircraft.

Egyptair and its seven subsidiary companies are wholly-owned by the Egyptian government. Despite its state ownership, the airline is permitted to act autonomously and is financially independent.

The airline has a strong network of routes througout the Middle East, Africa and Europe. It also flies to several Asian destinations plus New York and, seasonally, Montreal. Within Egypt, it serves all the major centres and tourism hubs such as Luxor, Alexandria, Hurghada and Sharm El Sheikh.

The airline and its Star Alliance partners are the sole occupants of Cairo airport's new Terminal 3 building, which opened in 2008. Star and Egyptair plan to grow the facility as a Middle East hub.

Egyptair set up Egyptair Express in 2007 to cover domestic and regional routes with a fleet of new 76-seat Embraer jets.

To check fares visit egyptair.com

 

[gregjrichards]

I have another question...

In the A320, with the restroom being right behind the cockpit, would that be first class / business class? Assuming an additional restroom would be located in the rear of the plane, would the standard paying customer be able to utilize the restroom in the front of the plane if they sat right behind the top section, or would they be required to use the rear restroom? I'm wondering because that could possibly limit the amount of persons to be checked out if this turns out to not be a mechanical fault. Then again, with the layover in Paris to be an hour or less, any other person sitting in that front section would need to be looked at as well.

Re the mechanics of the plane, is it possible that wires or a wiring box could be located between the wall of the restroom and the cockpit?

I think this link has the best seat map layout of the plane. There is business and economy class on this Airbus A320. http://www.seatmaestro.com/airplanes-seat-maps/egyptair-airbus-a320-232/

 

[Gigi-G]

I have a question. Here in he USA we have something called TSA PreCheck which makes it faster for low risk travelers to go through security and customs. Is this same type of service available worldwide? Was anything similar to our PreCheck available with this downed flight?

For reference:
https://www.tsa.gov/tsa-precheck

What's classed as low risk tho? It's getting to the stage now where you're in a crowded town center and yr looking each and every where. I'm disabled and on oxygen.. I can't move fast in any account. So when the Government brought out the 'See Tell Run' about suspicious items/people etc. How do I and elderly n infirm run?

I've said it earlier in post. Everyone has a cell fone. You cud wear badges. You cud hide some paper with a combustible agent on it inside the fone in battery compartment.
And no I have no idea on the making of explosives. On the plane use loo. Short the battery terminals place in bin. There's yr fire. Just a random theory. But just as easy the last inside the aircraft. The cleaning crew.
But it all boils down to. How can we trust the Air companies. When they're tied to such a quick turn a round?
They need an armed guard by each plane all the time while meals luggage ect is loaded. Then a team needs to go in n thoroughly check for anything out of the ordinary..

Sorry. Essay. All MOO of course.

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[Jersey*Girl]

I think this link has the best seat map layout of the plane. There is business and economy class on this Airbus A320. http://www.seatmaestro.com/airplanes-seat-maps/egyptair-airbus-a320-232/

Thank you very much! Ok so next question is - does the pilot sit on the right or the left in the cockpit? Does it differ from plane to plane or is it standard in all? It looks like the front restroom is to the left and the galley is directly across from it to the right? So not only could something have happened in the restroom, something could also have occurred in the galley. Is there a microwave or some type of heating device? Some kind of electricity that could have had faulty wiring?

Fyi, just thinking outside the box atm.

 

[Gigi-G]

Thank you very much! Ok so next question is - does the pilot sit on the right or the left in the cockpit? Does it differ from plane to plane or is it standard in all? It looks like the front restroom is to the left and the galley is directly across from it to the right? So not only could something have happened in the restroom, something could also have occurred in the galley. Is there a microwave or some type of heating device? Some kind of electricity that could have had faulty wiring?

Fyi, just thinking outside the box atm.

The First Officer in a fixed wing A/C sits on the right hand side. In a helicopter however it's the left side.


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[dotr]

It could even have been a situation like this one taken to the next level..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ger-munich-germany-hamburg-diverted-1.3595838

Unruly smoker forces Vancouver-bound Lufthansa flight to divert to Hamburg
'He tried to light up a smoke ... he apparently tried to open the back door at 38,000 feet'

May 22, 2016

 

[Gigi-G]

The First Officer in a fixed wing A/C sits on the right hand side. In a helicopter however it's the left side.


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Also. The meals are cover by aluminium foil. And warmed in a convection oven. About 20 minutes. The meal is ready to serve. It's just like a fan oven.

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[Jersey*Girl]

Question for an avionic knowledgable person:

If the insulation between the layers of an airplane are fireproof, how could a fault in wiring create such a damaging fire? Is it possible that someone purposely started a fire or small explosion in the lavatory for the sake of taking this plane out? Could someone smoking have done this? Is it possible that someone flushed a device in the toilet and remotely set it off? If the malfunction started under the toilet, what type of device could withstand the chemicals used to disintegrate and freeze the waste that the toilet intakes?

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Even though this really could be a mechanical issue at fault, I can't help but wonder that if it turns out to be terrorism then these cells must have some pretty good engineers on their side. Also, if terrorism is involved, they must know about the fault with the windows because how ironic if a fire broke out and it was fueled by the rapid oxygen in the air being fed to it through those blown out windows?

 

[Gigi-G]

Question for an avionic knowledgable person:

If the insulation between the layers of an airplane are fireproof, how could a fault in wiring create such a damaging fire? Is it possible that someone purposely started a fire or small explosion in the lavatory for the sake of taking this plane out? Could someone smoking have done this? Is it possible that someone flushed a device in the toilet and remotely set it off? If the malfunction started under the toilet, what type of device could withstand the chemicals used to disintegrate and freeze the waste that the toilet intakes?

Just becuz something is fire retardant doesn't mean it won't store heat. It just holds back on a fire starting at a fast pace.. which probably could be a clue in the ACARS faults.
It could of been smouldering for a while undetected. And if it's in the A/C wiring underneath the cabin it won't be instantly visible. The fire/heat can spread. Plastic coating on the wires could melt and drop onto things that aren't so fire retardant.
It could of been just an electronic issue that wasn't picked up before leaving Greece. Or anywhere on the A/C journeys prior.
Until we get the facts from the black boxes. We are just assuming it could be terrorists or mechanical failure.

I read somewhere. That an Air traffic tower was talking to ms804 after they left Greek airspace. And the pilot said they had smoke in the cockpit. They were in contact until she git to 10.000 ft. I will try find it.

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[Gigi-G]

Just becuz something is fire retardant doesn't mean it won't store heat. It just holds back on a fire starting at a fast pace.. which probably could be a clue in the ACARS faults.
It could of been smouldering for a while undetected. And if it's in the A/C wiring underneath the cabin it won't be instantly visible. The fire/heat can spread. Plastic coating on the wires could melt and drop onto things that aren't so fire retardant.
It could of been just an electronic issue that wasn't picked up before leaving Greece. Or anywhere on the A/C journeys prior.
Until we get the facts from the black boxes. We are just assuming it could be terrorists or mechanical failure.

I read somewhere. That an Air traffic tower was talking to ms804 after they left Greek airspace. And the pilot said they had smoke in the cockpit. They were in contact until she git to 10.000 ft. I will try find it.

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This wasn't the article but on similar lines.
Locator beacon from doomed EgyptAir plane 'detected on seabed' http://dailym.ai/242XirE via http://dailym.ai/android

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[katydid23]

It could even have been a situation like this one taken to the next level..

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...ger-munich-germany-hamburg-diverted-1.3595838

Possible. But there were THREE Air Marshals on board that plane. It seems like they would have been able to take an unruly passenger down before he could do that much damage.