Egypt Air flight 804 missing, 19 May 2016

[Wolf Dreamer]

I hope Egyptair provides appropriate compensation so that these orphaned children and all the families do not suffer from financial hardship due to this disaster. I am disgusted by Germanwings/Lufthansa's behaviour in the crash caused by their suicidal & murderous pilot.

Well at this point, why should they pay anything? They haven't been found responsible for the crash.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It could be domestic terrorism, a lone wolf or someone or a small group with a grievance with the airline or just a tragic accident. It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out.

I do think the outcome will be terrorism because I do not believe this was due to mechanical failure. I don't think it was done by a particular group but as you suggest, a lone wolf terrorist. It may be a case of pilot suicide with Islamic ties. I think whatever happened it started in the cockpit and either the pilot or co-pilot was trying to restrain the other one from taking down the plane. Or maybe like what has happened before and one of them waited until the other one took a bathroom break. He may have had a small bomb he detonated in the cockpit, and the fire spread throughout the plane. But with the strange movement of the plane it seems more like a struggle was happening inside of the cockpit. They would have had time to do a May Day if it was a fire.

My husband and I were talking about something has to be done where a certified person can access the cockpit if they feel something is wrong. Like Air Marshals that are thoroughly checked out who are given a certain code to access in case they feel danger is happening aboard the plane. We even talked about Air Traffic Controllers being able to takeover the plane's controls in case a pilot or someone else is trying to crash the plane. However in today's time I suppose that could pose problems as well if they passed the background checks but were also someone with terrorist ties.

The thing about these kind of terrorists is they are very patient. They will live an upstanding life for years before they strike. So it makes me question the pilot or co-pilot or any of the crew members.

It was alarming to read how many were let go from airports, I believe in France, iirc, because they had ties to terrorists. The question I ask is: how did they become eligible in the first place? That is downright scary.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well at this point, why should they pay anything? They haven't been found responsible for the crash.

No matter what the cause of the crash comes out to be it is still on the airline. The deceased victims weren't at fault, so yes, they should pay the victims families, and I am sure they will since the airlines always does in crashes like this. Whether it was mechanical failure, pilot error, pilot suicide or an act of terrorism they are still responsible/liable for what happened to these crash victims.

 

[CARIIS]

Boxes have not been located according to this.

Egypt denied media reports Saturday that the black boxes from EgyptAir Flight 804 have been located by investigators seeking answers to what brought down the aircraft over the Mediterranean.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...nes-black-boxes-located/ar-BBtimbR?li=BBnb7Kz

This is all the internets fault! If Walter Cronkite was here none of the last 48 hours would be tolerated !!!

It could be domestic terrorism, a lone wolf or someone or a small group with a grievance with the airline or just a tragic accident. It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out.

The more it marinates, we may be talking a mechanical plane crash (structural fatigue) IMO

The Meaning of Jihadist Silence on the EgyptAir Crash



https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/meaning-jihadist-silence-egyptair-crash

Daily ExpressVerified account ‏@Daily_Express 6m6 minutes ago
#ISIS prepares statement: Speculation mounts #EgyptAir #MS804 crash WAS a terror attack http://shr.gs/we54BjD

Again, take it for what it's worth. An annoucement they are Preparing a statement?

I have always wondered this - how do they know if they say they did it they really did so?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is all the internets fault! If Walter Cronkite was here none of the last 48 hours would be tolerated !!!



The more it marinates, we may be talking a mechanical plane crash (structural fatigue) IMO



I have always wondered this - how do they know if they say they did it they really did so?

How do they know if the plane was brought down by human hands intentionally?

If that is the question there are many ways the experts knows the plane had a bomb aboard that was detonated. From what I have read they will look at all the jagged pieces found. Bomb explosions evidently leave a much different pattern. Listen to the voice recorder when found that will tell them what was being said in the cockpit at the time this happened. There will be chemical testing on the shell of the plane, and the inside including seats looking for residue that would come from explosives.. chemical or otherwise. Plus many other things.

I do believe this is the act of terrorism and not a mechanical failure or pilot error. Nothing is happening much at the altitude they were flying when this happened. If it is mechanical failure the experts will find that too and what part failed.

 

[CARIIS]

Tid bits


Sorry about the video did not mean to do that now cant figure out how to get rid of it!!

Islamic State Calls for Intensified Attacks Against West, Doesn’t Claim EgyptAir Crash


Great:Ugh--

next month

“If it is indeed terrorism and there isn’t a claim, it could be because the organization wants to give the other cell members time to go to ground,

Islamic militants consider Ramadan to be the most sacred period for acts of martyrdom. It is a month dedicated to personal sacrifice and fasting, and extremist groups such as Islamic State, al Qaeda and the Taliban rally their troops ahead of the month.
He implored supporters to make Ramadan “a month of destruction on infidels everywhere, especially soldiers of infidels in Europe and the U.S.”


eaked flight data showing trouble in the cockpit and smoke in a plane lavatory are bringing into focus the chaotic final moments of EgyptAir Flight 804, including a three-minute period before contact was lost as alarms on the Airbus 320 screeched one after another.

“If they lost the aircraft within three minutes that’s very, very quick,” said aviation security expert Philip Baum. “They were dealing with an extremely serious incident.”

t mounting evidence points to a sudden, dramatic catastrophe that led to its crash into the eastern Mediterranean early Thursday.


The Facebook page of the chief spokesman for Egypt’s military showed the first photographs of debris from the plane, shredded remains of plane seats, life jackets — one seemingly undamaged — and a scrap of cloth that might be part of a baby’s purple-and-pink blanket.


Sebastien Barthe, a spokesman for the French civil aviation investigation agency, told the Associated Press that the messages “generally mean the start of a fire

As French authorities question airport staff who had access to EgyptAir Flight 804, cleaning crews are among those drawing attention.
One theory is that a bomb could have been placed in the plane while it was on the tarmac in Paris, or at its previous stops in Cairo or Tunis, although there is no evidence so far of a bomb being aboard the flight that crashed on Thursday into the Mediterranean while flying from Paris to Cairo.


but specialised security personnel are not routinely required to sweep a plane after the cleaning crew leaves.
He noted that rules vary from airport to airport and said he was not aware of the procedures used when the EgyptAir plane was parked in Paris’ Charles de Gaulle airport.

Water about 2 miles deep ---but real location of debris not really found yet - the floating debris could be miles from where the actual crash site is .


Data from the final moments before EgyptAir flight MS804 crashed into the Mediterranean suggest an "internal explosion" tore through the right side of the aircraft, a pilot said last night.
Investigators trying to determine whether the A320 was brought down by terrorism or a technical fault are poring over a series of warnings indicating smoke filled the cabin shortly before it disappeared from radar.
French authorities confirmed that smoke detectors went off aboard the flight a few minutes before it crashed but said it was not clear what caused the smoke or fire.


A commercial pilot with a major European airline told The Telegraph that other parts of the data log suggested that windows in the right side of the cockpit were blown out by an explosion inside the aircraft.


"It looks like the right front and side window were blown out, most probably from inside out," said the pilot, who flies an A330 similar to the crashed A320 and spoke on condition of anonymity.

Explosives in the form of paper, or concealed in a medicine-sized bottle and looking like salt. Tiny electric detonators.Security agents at the main airport in Paris are trained to detect all manner of increasingly sophisticated devices that could doom a flight. But the chilling reality is that security is ultimately fallible. "The infinitely perfect does not exist," said Sylvain Prevost, who trains airport personnel



http://www.wsj.com/articles/islamic-state-calls-for-intensified-attacks-against-west-doesnt-claim-egyptair-crash-1463870131
http://www.timesofisrael.com/smoke-c...gyptair-plane/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b45_story.html
https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy...gyptair-crash/Hi!

I meant if they claim responsibliyy how does one verify that. It almosts seems like "if I did not do it I wont say I did"> These are killers, is there a moral code? What would keep any of them from taking credit when they had nothing to do with any event? It is weird- like they tell the truth or something!! Ha

How do they know if the plane was brought down by human hands intentionally?

If that is the question there are many ways the experts knows the plane had a bomb aboard that was detonated. From what I have read they will look at all the jagged pieces found. Bomb explosions evidently leave a much different pattern. Listen to the voice recorder when found that will tell them what was being said in the cockpit at the time this happened. There will be chemical testing on the shell of the plane, and the inside including seats looking for residue that would come from explosives.. chemical or otherwise. Plus many other things.

I do believe this is the act of terrorism and not a mechanical failure or pilot error. Nothing is happening much at the altitude they were flying when this happened. If it is mechanical failure the experts will find that too and what part failed.

I think we all lthink that they get compensated. When the media goes away they get f*ucked.

Relatives of people who died when a Lufthansa plane crashed in March have expressed their outrage at the airline's offer of compensation.

Germanwings Flight 9525 was flown into a mountainside in France by its pilot, killing all [video=cnn;world/2015/03/25/lklv-magnay-condolences-for-kids-killed-in-plane-crash.cnn]http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/24/world/france-plane-crash-victims/index.html?iid=EL[/video].
Some relatives may receive as little as 95,000 euros ($104,000) per victim [video]http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/27/news/germanwings-plane-crash-compensation-lufthansa/index.html?iid=EL[/video], while others could receive millions, according to lawyers representing the families.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/31/news/companies/lufthansa-germanwings-crash-compensation/


Relatives of the victims of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 plane crash last year have not received any offers for compensation aside from an interim payment less than the full amount suggested by a multilateral treaty governing procedures for air disasters,

http://www.ibtimes.com/mh370-compensation-only-interim-payment-offered-families-malaysia-airlines-crash-1837074

 

[Dr. Know?]

This purse is riddled due to something. It's farthest left, towards the bottom. Somewhere today I saw a picture of it. Looks like it has many puctures & had been pierced by it. Still intact though with handle. Watch it be a fashoin trend...

I'll have to get the picture as the main pic of this video doesn't show the purse I'm talking about.

[video=youtube;QRZlfCIb8qE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRZlfCIb8qE[/video]

 

[CARIIS]

In 2013, the TSA had roughly 47,000 screeners to clear 643 million passengers through security. This year, it has 42,525 officers to screen an estimated 740 million. So in those three years, the number of officers dropped 10%, while the number of fliers increased by 15%.

http://www.newsjs.com/url.php?p=http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/20/pf/tsa-jobs-hiring/

 

[Gigi-G]

Tid bits


Sorry about the video did not mean to do that now cant figure out how to get rid of it!!

Islamic State Calls for Intensified Attacks Against West, Doesn’t Claim EgyptAir Crash


Great:Ugh--

next month

“If it is indeed terrorism and there isn’t a claim, it could be because the organization wants to give the other cell members time to go to ground,

Islamic militants consider Ramadan to be the most sacred period for acts of martyrdom. It is a month dedicated to personal sacrifice and fasting, and extremist groups such as Islamic State, al Qaeda and the Taliban rally their troops ahead of the month.
He implored supporters to make Ramadan “a month of destruction on infidels everywhere, especially soldiers of infidels in Europe and the U.S.”


eaked flight data showing trouble in the cockpit and smoke in a plane lavatory are bringing into focus the chaotic final moments of EgyptAir Flight 804, including a three-minute period before contact was lost as alarms on the Airbus 320 screeched one after another.

“If they lost the aircraft within three minutes that’s very, very quick,” said aviation security expert Philip Baum. “They were dealing with an extremely serious incident.”

t mounting evidence points to a sudden, dramatic catastrophe that led to its crash into the eastern Mediterranean early Thursday.


The Facebook page of the chief spokesman for Egypt’s military showed the first photographs of debris from the plane, shredded remains of plane seats, life jackets — one seemingly undamaged — and a scrap of cloth that might be part of a baby’s purple-and-pink blanket.


Sebastien Barthe, a spokesman for the French civil aviation investigation agency, told the Associated Press that the messages “generally mean the start of a fire

As French authorities question airport staff who had access to EgyptAir Flight 804, cleaning crews are among those drawing attention.
One theory is that a bomb could have been placed in the plane while it was on the tarmac in Paris, or at its previous stops in Cairo or Tunis, although there is no evidence so far of a bomb being aboard the flight that crashed on Thursday into the Mediterranean while flying from Paris to Cairo.


but specialised security personnel are not routinely required to sweep a plane after the cleaning crew leaves.
He noted that rules vary from airport to airport and said he was not aware of the procedures used when the EgyptAir plane was parked in Paris’ Charles de Gaulle airport.

Water about 2 miles deep ---but real location of debris not really found yet - the floating debris could be miles from where the actual crash site is .


Data from the final moments before EgyptAir flight MS804 crashed into the Mediterranean suggest an "internal explosion" tore through the right side of the aircraft, a pilot said last night.
Investigators trying to determine whether the A320 was brought down by terrorism or a technical fault are poring over a series of warnings indicating smoke filled the cabin shortly before it disappeared from radar.
French authorities confirmed that smoke detectors went off aboard the flight a few minutes before it crashed but said it was not clear what caused the smoke or fire.


A commercial pilot with a major European airline told The Telegraph that other parts of the data log suggested that windows in the right side of the cockpit were blown out by an explosion inside the aircraft.


"It looks like the right front and side window were blown out, most probably from inside out," said the pilot, who flies an A330 similar to the crashed A320 and spoke on condition of anonymity.

Explosives in the form of paper, or concealed in a medicine-sized bottle and looking like salt. Tiny electric detonators.Security agents at the main airport in Paris are trained to detect all manner of increasingly sophisticated devices that could doom a flight. But the chilling reality is that security is ultimately fallible. "The infinitely perfect does not exist," said Sylvain Prevost, who trains airport personnel



http://www.wsj.com/articles/islamic-state-calls-for-intensified-attacks-against-west-doesnt-claim-egyptair-crash-1463870131
http://www.timesofisrael.com/smoke-c...gyptair-plane/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b45_story.html
https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy...gyptair-crash/Hi!

I meant if they claim responsibliyy how does one verify that. It almosts seems like "if I did not do it I wont say I did"> These are killers, is there a moral code? What would keep any of them from taking credit when they had nothing to do with any event? It is weird- like they tell the truth or something!! Ha





I think we all lthink that they get compensated. When the media goes away they get f*ucked.

Relatives of people who died when a Lufthansa plane crashed in March have expressed their outrage at the airline's offer of compensation.

Germanwings Flight 9525 was flown into a mountainside in France by its pilot, killing all [video=cnn;world/2015/03/25/lklv-magnay-condolences-for-kids-killed-in-plane-crash.cnn]http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/24/world/france-plane-crash-victims/index.html?iid=EL[/video].
Some relatives may receive as little as 95,000 euros ($104,000) per victim [video]http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/27/news/germanwings-plane-crash-compensation-lufthansa/index.html?iid=EL[/video], while others could receive millions, according to lawyers representing the families.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/31/news/companies/lufthansa-germanwings-crash-compensation/


Relatives of the victims of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 plane crash last year have not received any offers for compensation aside from an interim payment less than the full amount suggested by a multilateral treaty governing procedures for air disasters,

http://www.ibtimes.com/mh370-compensation-only-interim-payment-offered-families-malaysia-airlines-crash-1837074

I would of thought by now with the amount of vessels at sea around the Med. And the search n rescue air teams from military. Would of found much more debris and tell tale signs by now being 48+ hours gone now.
If the A/C had been ripped apart by bomb, fire, or sudden depressurization wouldn't there be far more ' plane' wreckage than just a few bits such as we see now?

In 2013, the TSA had roughly 47,000 screeners to clear 643 million passengers through security. This year, it has 42,525 officers to screen an estimated 740 million. So in those three years, the number of officers dropped 10%, while the number of fliers increased by 15%.

http://www.newsjs.com/url.php?p=http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/20/pf/tsa-jobs-hiring/

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[CARIIS]

I would of thought by now with the amount of vessels at sea around the Med. And the search n rescue air teams from military. Would of found much more debris and tell tale signs by now being 48+ hours gone now.
If the A/C had been ripped apart by bomb, fire, or sudden depressurization wouldn't there be far more ' plane' wreckage than just a few bits such as we see now?



Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

It is so confusing - the ACARS stuff, actually, IMO leans me toward rapid decompression as oppossed to fire. But the AcARs was going for three minutes, so it was not an instant event .Decmpression makes a mist/fog like thing, which I think may have trigger the smoke sensers..

One would think a couple of things about a bomb, quicker (Acars on has to mean a relativily intact machine to run) . The drop in altitude , as oppossed to at that point falling out of the sky, now, IMO seems to be the cockpit crew doing what you do when decompression occurs - get down and quick.

So lets say the first drop was at the captains input- still in control of the aircraft.. Decompression is rough (!) on fueslage skin! The plane had been worked hard. So lets say on the controlled decent , intially, the plane experieced more stressers and started to truly but realivily slowly , shed some stuff, which adds to the problem obviously!

And at 9000 feet it was catastrophic structural failure. The items shown today had nothing to indicate, an explosion, fire or soot, and not really ( I am talking about soft stuff -like the purse clothing) was basically intact.

But if you think about they were now down to 9000 feet, not falling from 37000. I get the visualization of the light stuff sort of floating down . Just from the video today. A sneaker that looks brand new with a small hole. I must admit when I saw it, I pondering if we were being BSed - it did not even look like it had been marinating in salt water for hours??

If we are gonna say bomb, that probably would have ignited the fuel as well - so why is nothing showing any evidence of fire. The cockpit window stuff is also interesting- might that have been the intial weak spot from metal fatigue??

That kinda feels congruent, as well, with getting no reply from the plane a bit earlier in the sequence by the tower. They were busy dealing with an increasing issue, decompression is really loud, they might have not even be able to hear the tower calling - its loud!!( They must get on oxygen masks to live! Busy guys. Answering a tower when your world is going mad is a matter of priorites!! IMO

I feel as if the bathroom senser alarm was the one in the front right behind the cockpit as opposed to the image of a fire spreading from the rear bathroom. That would be congruent with (window in cockpit as start of structural failure.

Pure speculation for sure but the ACARS and debris , in conjunction with what I learned today about the actual flight utilization rates posted earlier. I was instantly struck when I saw how they were flying her, but did not have a concrete defination.

If you look at the numbers posted earlier -I expected utlization to a bit higher for other carriers than what I learned.

But it seems as if 10 hours in the air was round average, this thing was going 17 hours a day. That was much more of a difference than I thought. So basically it makes her much older than just the "purchase" date, and erronous perception created by media calling her a young girl!!

She was old, worked to death, and metal fatigue can often start slower and progress, which seems to be what was occuring as opposed to this sudden assualt on a planed. She was in control for the 17000 foot drop , ACARS reporting, so it just does not, today, hit me a truly instant deal.

I suppose we could say a bomb that was not all the big, or in the right location could initiate in flight breakup, but the visual of this plane blowing out of the sky , only IMO seems less than yesterday.

ACARS has a warning (AIR EXCESSIVE CABIN ALTITUDE) for rapid decompresion which did not happen?

This is really a good two minute deal of what I am starting to think. Notice a couple of things the mist that I think may have activated the smoke, the plane still relativily intact for a peroid of time. I think if we put this plane (Aloha) in the exact location as Egypt it would be the same result but but Aloha had an airport close.

I think this would start a smoke detector!! Here is decompression:

[video=youtube;IPpb5S0dF_I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPpb5S0dF_I[/video]



Pure specualation on my part!

 

[AlwaysShocked]

The bottom line is that everybody is speculating right now including the experts. Until more is found that's all anyone can do.
Nobody wants it to be terrorism. Nobody wants it to be mechanical either. And pilot suicide could be a possibility. Who ever thought we'd seriously be considering that like we must nowadays?
As always I feel so bad for all those loved ones.

 

[Dr. Know?]

RIP, Rhoden family RIP.

Time will tell how many people are invovled. Time will tell. Power to the law. Their deaths need an answer no matter how big or small. Come on law!

 

[1&2&3]

Just want to say a big Thanks to those of you who are well educated on planes and can explain so much to us. I appreciate you immensely so I have an idea of what is happening. You are excellent teachers and explain it so the average person can understand you. :loveyou:

 

[emirates1957]

We have retained you (without pay of course) to be our spy. Please interagate your friend fully. If you must keep he/she hostage so you can pump him for information feel free to so!!

Within your contract with WS you are mandated to post every utterance made !! HA!

would love to hear his take on ACARS, and "Since we got ACARS, does that increase the liklihood that the recorders would still be running for the three minutes the ACARS was transmitting?" TIA!!

pics from

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36349882

Dont see soot or fire damage just sayin!

Reasonable size plane interesting that the airlines name is on most of the wreckage found - again just noting!!

One pic has english and their language, but the life vests are English only!

On page above video did an animation and all that stuff about the plane doing a 360 looks like the beginning of a stall and spiral downward, not they silly way it had intially described!

Unfortunately my hostage has untied his cuffs and ripped his duck tape off to go to the supermarket. WIll ask him about ACARS he is off to Tehran tonight for a week, obviously this will not be possible should his passport disappear !!!!!!!

 

[Ellmau]

It was alarming to read how many were let go from airports, I believe in France, iirc, because they had ties to terrorists. The question I ask is: how did they become eligible in the first place? That is downright scary.

Lack of background checks of low level, often minimum wage, employees not thought important enough to pay attention to.

 

[Ellmau]

I

Pure speculation for sure but the ACARS and debris , in conjunction with what I learned today about the actual flight utilization rates posted earlier. I was instantly struck when I saw how they were flying her, but did not have a concrete defination.

If you look at the numbers posted earlier -I expected utlization to a bit higher for other carriers than what I learned.

But it seems as if 10 hours in the air was round average, this thing was going 17 hours a day. That was much more of a difference than I thought. So basically it makes her much older than just the "purchase" date, and erronous perception created by media calling her a young girl!!

She was old, worked to death, and metal fatigue can often start slower and progress, which seems to be what was occuring as opposed to this sudden assualt on a planed. She was in control for the 17000 foot drop , ACARS reporting, so it just does not, today, hit me a truly instant deal.

That's a very good point. My brother's an engineer, and in one of his previous jobs he had to go and check on some heavy lifting machinery his company had sold to Saudi Arabia, which was failing earlier than it should. It turned out to be because it wasn't being maintained, and was being put to work 24/7. Egypt may have a similar ethos.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

No matter what the cause of the crash comes out to be it is still on the airline. The deceased victims weren't at fault, so yes, they should pay the victims families, and I am sure they will since the airlines always does in crashes like this. Whether it was mechanical failure, pilot error, pilot suicide or an act of terrorism they are still responsible/liable for what happened to these crash victims.

No, they aren't. Noone was forced to travel on the plane. If what happened turns out to be due to poor security at CdG, how is that the airline's fault? It wasn't the fault of airlines using the A380 that they had a tendency to catch fire - it was down to Rolls Royce's manufacturing. RR were the liable ones.

I'm sorry people died but before demands for money, there needs to be proper accountability. If Egyptair want to pay something as an interim goodwill gesture, fine, but I wouldn't expect them to do anything that might appear to be an admission of liability ahead of the fact.

Personally, I am more inclined to think this will be on Egyptair and their processes, but until the black boxes are analysed there are other parties who could be ultimately responsible.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Lack of background checks of low level, often minimum wage, employees not thought important enough to pay attention to.

It's more than that. It's about the fact that EU law does not allow employers to discriminate against candidates based on the sort of profiling that would be necessary in these cases. In other words, an airport cannot simply decide not to employ a particular group, in this case Muslims, for particular types of work, ie airside or other high security roles or sensitive areas. Profiling is illegal, so in order to pull aside dodgy-looking young Muslim males, airport security also has to pull aside 80 year old Scottish grannies.

 

[CARIIS]

Unfortunately my hostage has untied his cuffs and ripped his duck tape off to go to the supermarket. WIll ask him about ACARS he is off to Tehran tonight for a week, obviously this will not be possible should his passport disappear !!!!!!!

Another awesome post sir or madam!!

QUOTE=.[/QUOTE]


I am telling ya all those flight radar24 folks bugged me! So I thought well lets go see what the heck there up to!!

It looks like our Egypt Air has not flown the Paris Cairo segment since. But two days ago it was posted that flights were "planned" on the 20th. Has not happened - has anyone heard of the French have prohibited them from flying in their airspace??



Liability :

I am not a lawyer. Refreshing my self with this today, while reading it I was thinking, but family of loved these days still get big rewards, rare, but happens.

Here is the stuff that covers airlines tushies! I have always looked at like its a boys club - I will join if you will join and then both of us can scr@w our passengers when we do something wrong ! BUT here it is in all its glory............................

International civil aviation agreement that establishes the legal framework for carriage of passengers, luggage (baggage), and goods (cargo). It (1) covers conditions of carriage that (a) define liability of the carrier in case of loss, damage, injury or death due to accident on international flights, and (b) spell outprocedures for claims and restitution, (2) lays down out the requirements for format and content of air transport documents (passenger tickets, luggage tickets, air consignment notes, etc. Signed in 1929 in Warsaw (Poland) by 31 states, it has evolved into one of the most important instruments of private international law adhered to by 105 signatory nations. Over the years, several amending protocols, supplementary instruments, rules, and regulations have been added which, together with the original conventions, are called the Warsaw System. Credited for being a major factor in the development of international air traffic, it is now overseen by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO).

The Warsaw convention was created in 1929 with 152 member state all over the world. It specified the conditions under which airline could be liable for the death or injury to passengers, loss or damage to baggage and delay; sets limits to the amount of compensation that could be claimed; and excluded resort to national laws.................

............ the Warsaw convention was amended by the Montreal convention in 1999. .............The Montreal convention is applicable to all international flights carrying passenger, cargo or baggage. At the beginning paragraph of article. 17 of the Montreal convention regulates the liability of the airlines in case of bodily injury or death of the passengers; “The carrier is liable for damage sustained in case of death or bodily injury of a passenger upon condition only that the accident which caused the death or injury took place on board the aircraft or in the course of any of the operations .....

First it needs to be certain that the flight is operating between member states, then the passenger who wants to claim compensation for the damages, must try under the Montreal convention. To be clear, when convention is applicable, passenger cannot go for any action for damages under the domestic law.............................
.............
...........................achieve compensation, two things must be proven. First of all the damage that happened on-board of the aircraft or embarking or disembarking was an accident. Secondly, the plaintiff suffered bodily injury or death. However, the word bodily injury and accident are inexplicit and have been interpreted in different ways by the courts.



Under the Montreal Convention, air carriers are strictly liable for proven damages up to 100,000 special drawing rights (SDR), a mix of currency values established by the International Monetary Fund(IMF).[SUP][3][/SUP] Where damages of more than 113,100 SDR are sought, the airline may avoid liability by proving that the accident which caused the injury or death was not due to their negligence or was attributable to the negligence of a third party.

refuses to pay any compensation for psychiatric injury or damage unless inextricably linked to the physical injury.[SUP][4]

[/SUP]increases the maximum liability of airlines for lost baggage to a fixed amount 1,131 SDR per passenge

At 21 days any delayed baggage is considered lost, even if the airline delivers it after that period.

The EU report notes that the United States under the Air Carrier Access Act and Canada under Part VII of the Air Transport Regulations have taken action to force airlines to fully cover the costs of damage to mobility equipment as a condition of allowing an airline to operate in their airspace, and notes that the EU may have to take similar steps if the additional duties imposed on airlines by EC 1107/2006 do not resolve the issue.

EU:

Due to the complex nature of the laws governing airline liability, liability limits in place in various countries around the world can vary. In countries that are party to the Montreal Convention, the liability limits are the same as for EU airlines. Whether you would be entitled to an advance payment in the event of an injury or death, and how much, depends on the law of the country.
You are advised before you travel to get adequate travel insurance in advance of your journey. You can also check in advance of travel the liability limits governing the airline you are travelling with.

The article then goes on with two examples

Read more at Law Teacher: http://www.lawteacher.net/free-law-...ummary-commercial-law-essay.php#ixzz49NzcLU94

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Convention#Damages

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/Warsaw-Convention.html#ixzz49O4oW1sv

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Convention


http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/Warsaw-Convention.html

Frequent flyers def check this out!

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/air_travel/airline_liability.html#l8c8c7

Bunch if stuff here that I cant understand:

http://www.icao.int/secretariat/legal/lists/current lists of parties/allitems.aspx

 

[gregjrichards]

I watched Justice with Judge Jeanine on Fox News last night and she had a security specialist guest on from Paris. He said he had landed in Paris a few hours after this plane was believed crashed and they never checked his passport when the plane landed at CDG airport. He also said perhaps no terrorist group had claimed responsibility due to this being a test run. If this is true that CDG never checked passports what else are they dropping the ball on? It is deeply concerning.

Regarding compensation I appreciate the cause of the crash needs to be determined but the three orphaned children in Cairo whose parents have been killed in this disaster for example need help now in order to eat and live. They should be protected from suffering more than what they already are. Some organisation has to step up to the plate and help these suffering families meantime. There should be a fund airlines pay into to provide immediate financial help to the families of crash victims regardless of how a plane has been brought down.