Egypt Air flight 804 missing, 19 May 2016

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Earlier I tried to hold my breath for 3 minutes and thought I was gonna have a coronary after 30 seconds! God rest these souls. I can't imagine the horror they indured. I pray it was fast. RIP.

30 seconds is the average amount of time somebody in relatively good health can hold their breath, that number would decrease if that person was in a "panic" situation,

i watched a documentary about scuba divers about a month ago, and these people were holding their breath underwater for 8 or 9 minutes diving as deep as 100 meters, but they had been training to do that for 10 or 15 years, was quite interesting actually, sorry for the off topic
 
Question. Some years back one of my good friends was in a car accident. A very bad one... She died. The person that was driving was split in half from her seat belt and disembodied. Would this happen in an airplane as well since it's going at such a high speed? Considering our bodies have so much "liquid" and "soft tissue", its surprising to me that a plane travelling that fast would even have any recoverable body body parts, let alone having an explosion ontop of it all. I'm wondering if it's even possible from that altitude and speed if a body could even hit the water intact, in which case it's no wonder the search grid is the size of Connecticut.

not sure, but i do recall watching a show on a plane crash where they found people underwater "still strapped in their seats", from that i would assume the body was still intact, the force of gravity does not increase the higher you are, it stays the same at 9.8 meters per second,
 
30 seconds is the average amount of time somebody in relatively good health can hold their breath, that number would decrease if that person was in a "panic" situation,

i watched a documentary about scuba divers about a month ago, and these people were holding their breath underwater for 8 or 9 minutes diving as deep as 100 meters, but they had been training to do that for 10 or 15 years, was quite interesting actually, sorry for the off topic

That's amazing!
 
not sure, but i do recall watching a show on a plane crash where they found people underwater "still strapped in their seats", from that i would assume the body was still intact

It could also have to do with where they were seated and if they went in nose first or what have you. The height before fall and speed prior to stall wouldn't factor? Yeah, I hope there's bodies intact and they tell the story of what happened here.
 
Where are the black boxes located in an A320? Are they both in the same area or could one be in the front while the other is in the back (just an example)?
 
Where are the black boxes located in an A320? Are they both in the same area or could one be in the front while the other is in the back (just an example)?

generally speaking the boxes are always located in the tail/rear of the plane,

im no expert but i would assume the thinking of that is most of the time a plane would hit ground nose first, so the tail would take the least impact
 
not sure, but i do recall watching a show on a plane crash where they found people underwater "still strapped in their seats", from that i would assume the body was still intact, the force of gravity does not increase the higher you are, it stays the same at 9.8 meters per second,

I don't understand your comment about gravity (and I mean as a sincere request to clarify; I'm not being snarky at all!).

Gravity does not change rate, but the force of impact changes based on speed and height. A person falling of a dock into the water certainly does not suffer the same damage as someone falling off a high bridge, and a person gently hitting the water from a parachute enters the water differently from one projected from an exploding airplane. Gravity is constant, but we're dealing with more than gravity.
 
I don't understand your comment about gravity (and I mean as a sincere request to clarify; I'm not being snarky at all!).

Gravity does not change rate, but the force of impact changes based on speed and height. A person falling of a dock into the water certainly does not suffer the same damage as someone falling off a high bridge, and a person gently hitting the water from a parachute enters the water differently from one projected from an exploding airplane. Gravity is constant, but we're dealing with more than gravity.

what i meant was, there comes a point where the height does not matter,

you dont keep falling faster just because you are higher,

if a person jumps off a bridge into a body of water from 1,000 feet

another person jumps from 10,000 feet the force of impact would be identical,

think about a skydiver jumping out of a plane, they are falling at the same rate and speed the whole way down, their speed/descent rate is not increasing




.
 
what i meant was, there comes a point where the height does not matter,

you dont keep falling faster just because you are higher,

if a person jumps off a bridge into a body of water from 1,000 feet

another person jumps from 10,000 feet the force of impact would be identical,

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/flobi.html

25iu4pt.jpg
 
what i meant was, there comes a point where the height does not matter,

you dont keep falling faster just because you are higher,

if a person jumps off a bridge into a body of water from 1,000 feet

another person jumps from 10,000 feet the force of impact would be identical,

Right, you don't fall faster. But the fall from an airplane that either exploded or crashed is not a case of "all things being equal" except for height, ykwim?

I do thank you for clarification - I get what you're saying.
 
So height, weight and speed could play a factor into the impact force and it could depend on the surface of impact. Plus I think impact could show a different effect between a rotating fall to impact vs a straight on idle impact. No? I apologize for any confusion, I'm just trying to work through why several small body parts were found vs no substantial "pieces". Also, I'm assuming they were found on the water as the water is very deep in that particular part of the Mediterranean.
 
I'm just trying to work through why several small body parts were found vs no substantial "pieces"

i don't mean this in a rude or disrespectful way, but those "small parts" could have already been "small parts" long before they hit the water
 
So height, weight and speed could play a factor into the impact force and it could depend on the surface of impact. Plus I think impact could show a different effect between a rotating fall to impact vs a straight on idle impact. No? I apologize for any confusion, I'm just trying to work through why several small body parts were found vs no substantial "pieces". Also, I'm assuming they were found on the water as the water is very deep in that particular part of the Mediterranean.

I read online that some of the pieces have burn marks which suggest explosion, but I guess burn could also simply mean fire too.

jmo
 
I will go short. I TY all for your help and support in this mess. But I do have to share, I am getting frustrated. My mother is 87. There is money. But, it is memorial weekend, I (oblivious) you cant be calling boarding and hotels and asking I dont know sometime in the month do you have a vacancy? As calls went by its summertime, its america. $$$$

I emailed a gently one ( it occured to me as a therapist she does not want to type anticpated death time) . I am sensitive to that . HOWEVER there is a reality here I am single, and alone. Its not like I have a lover, I have to have somewhere to put my baby- its not like an option.

I emailed her, gently, but you have to give me some timeframe here. I have called all around - ya cant say no idea when Lady is coming , when she is leaving - its silly.

Cconcerned mother will get angry - but there are realities. OK (I will be careful here, I was inemail)) so should we (she pay i have no money) book Lady boarding and my hotel for the next three weeks, pay and let it play out?

There has to be some idea by doctors when what is is. I have asked before for a timeframe, and it was only today, where I realized she can not do that. I get it. But there has to be a reality here, I can not leave my Lady here alone for god knows how long.

Mother : bring her here, we have a place we bring Puccini when we travel she will get the royal treatment. Dear mom, Lady can not be in free play with a bunch of doggies-I would love it for her). She is a COON hound. They eat things that look like racoons. Just the way genitics fall!

Again many of you were so sweet and it mattered, to me. however I must acknoledge I am angry , confused that I thought we could do it this way, whenever the time came, I could just , in summertime find my lady a place to safe, dumb me, and sadly my mother needs to grasp this. She has a small dog that looks like a racoon (my baby is - not my avatar she passed - is a coon hound)

It will be interesting to see if I get a really angry email back. Hey greiving and fear do stuff - but over the last week, there are just realities here.

Once again TY for listening, and your alls support has been helpful, with love.

I can not go down there until I know my Lady is safe now can I?? She is a passinate dog lover - but sounds mean, this has turned in to stupidity, I know she is having a really hard time losing her partner of 40 years,

Now I am going back to my distraction, our crash!! And honestly, a xanex , wiped and angry!!!

TY all again!!
 
i don't mean this in a rude or disrespectful way, but those "small parts" could have already been "small parts" long before they hit the water

Right, and this is what I think. I'm just confused why no full or substantial bodies were found given the salt content in the Mediterranean. I wonder if the front of the plane was blown out, it did a spiral, then where the nose would have been was the actual impact, pushing air within and hence the bodies to the tail being pinned in and pushed to the back. If that's the case, and if considering the density of the sea as well as the depth, I wonder if a portion of the plane could still be intact. I'd think if it entered the sea in such a way as a missile flies, then maybe a portion would be intact. If it fell belly down then could the impact have a worse affect? Would that depend on the structural engineering of the craft?
 

Media keeps doing this!

Using word "explosion.

Decompression is an explosion.

Decompression as result of fire , is a decompression.

A small bomb results in a decompression.

Metal fatigue results in decompression.

The only question imo is what caused the decompression.

They were dealing with a decompression of the jetliner, but why?

That is the answer imo

It is with much regret that I must share that a company has offered the airlines totally free real time monitoring since 2014.

April 17, 2014 10:24 a.m. ET
LONDON—Satellite communications company Inmarsat PLC plans to offer basic tracking services free of charge to airlines, its chairman said, in the strongest sign yet of the aerospace industry's intentions to enhance monitoring abilities for commercial jets after the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370.



quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Jersey*Girl
Thank you for this - I was wrong about it being Greece ATC as it was really Egypt ATC. I haven't read anything that the decent was related to the plane invading another's airspace. Cariis, is that your interpretation or did you actually get that from somewhere? Or are you thinking of a scenario in which a passenger plane might be shot down intentionally without it actually being terrorism?



Hi Jersey!

The ACARS spun me around! A plane blown up by a bomb at 37000 cant transmit ACARS, its in pieces falling to the ground.

And the ACARS was perfect for explosive for sudden rapid decompression - small bomb, or metal faitgue.

My take is media being blowm away (sorry for word choice) that there was no distress call, which leads them directly to terrorism is just not a fair conclusion.

Rarely is there a for lack of a word I hate in jetliner age, a distress call. If we go with there was dialog with traffic control telling them , for whatever reason , that they were in the middle of a rapid descent, that is what they must do. They could have gotten it under control , and if they did not tell ATC they were diving crashed into another aircraft and been dead.

My thing is ATC I have to descend thats it.

QUOTE=gregjrichards;12582184]What motive do these people have to lie about this? I am very suspicious of the Egyptian governments 360 degree turns from infomration that is being released.

Thanks everyone for all your posts with news updates and discussion it is interesting to read all the information and your different points of view.[/QUOTE]

I so agree greg , enough, sounds rough, you insurance will pay for whatever - quit this bull - , and yes (MO) if you killed all these people for running your machine into the ground, while not doing metal fatigue testing , then ya all caught and pay for it --enough.


quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Jersey*Girl
The only thing I can think of is that Egypt has been hit really hard recently and this disaster could pose a catastrophic hit to their tourism industry. They make millions upon millions during the sunniest season due to the tourism industry. I thought I read yesterday that their economy has suffered greatly from the last most recent incident. Is it possible that maybe Egypt is trying to bide time to investigate and put together a plan for caturing those responsible? Or maybe there are other threats to come so they could be investigating so as not to alert the responsible parties.



Spin it into confusion - media goes away ........all is well...............

It just doesn't seem right to cast doubt on the pilots when in fact it initially appeared that they were in distress and attempting to rectify the situation. It just looks like their families are going through hell right now and nothing points to them being terrorists or uber political prior to this disaster. If they are innocent of any and all wrongdoing, then speculation surrounding them only victimizes their families more. I just can't help but feel sad for them.

http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-egyptair-funeral-20160522-snap-story.html

'Mohamed was a good pilot,' father of EgyptAir captain says. 'And he knows God'

MAY 22, 2016, 3:42 PM / REPORTING FROM CAIRO
Shashank Bengali

Agree unless ACARS is an internet fraud, these folks were dealing with some stuff. My deal is the notion of the fire sensers going off - when in fact it was explosive decompression as a result of metal fatigue.

A "fire" in the avionics bay and forward lav, would not cause, at that point in time, cockpit windows to "do" anything. Explossive demompression , however, would moo

I mean, I can track my husband with his phone to know when he's cheating on his diet. Buuuut.... the military cannot find a black box.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Brillant post - just for us - how bad is he cheating - double whopper or just a whopper!!

Ahh cannot find a black box. lets just forget this they could find an A320 or a triple 7 MAL .............its a jokeamd IMO its al cause the media does not ask real questions - they get away with it

Exactly! Furthermore, with all the spying every nation in the world is involved in right now, and considering all the satellites pinpointed towards the Middle East, how in the hell does NOBODY have the EXACT (not approximate) location of these blackboxes? Plus, with the Mediterranean Sea having incidents of pirating, how could the surrounding governments not have drone footage of this plane? Isn't Crete right there nearby?

IMO they do --its all geopolitical cra*

Thinking that if they can identify the human remains, of that particular passenger, they will also be able to pinpoint where the ( potential ) explosion took place, maybe even who ( if applicable ) is responsible, imo.


rbbm.
http://cnews.canoe.com/CNEWS/World/2016/05/24/22636006.html

Ah ha, but was that a bomb explosion, or a sudden decompression. Earlier post , on human remains no sign of bomb residue. Thus far none. Explsion yes, bomb no..............

... www.cnn.com/2016/05/24/middleeast/egyptair-flight-804-main/index.html

EgyptAir Flight 804: Conflicting reports over final moments

By Michael Pearson, CNN
Updated 9:56 AM ET, Tue May 24, 2016

The 360 turn is BS. Swept back jetliners can not do that - peroid- it is a pysics impossiblity, they would stall before half of the turn is done , and start going down. The 360 nonsense, is the start of s spiral stall

I wish i could come up with a visual I shall try! Pretend we are a satellite looking down on the plane. When it stalls and starts to spiral down from above it looks like a 360. In reality it is a spiral, so the turns are actually at lower altudes - but from above it looks like a turn when it is a spiral DOWN

I do not know if I described it right - the key deal is those conclusions (360 turn) are from above the aircraft. If we had a camera, at level, we would see the plane changing direction (circles) but as it goes down- not a 360 - she is spiraling down, which are circles,but going down , from above it looks like 360's moo
 
Might be worth noting that when SwissAir 111 hit the water it pretty much disintegrated - over two million pieces of debris were recovered and only one person was visually identifiable. It was estimated to be travelling at around 300 knots at the time of impact. Most of the plane sunk almost immediately.

Air accident report:

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/aviation/1998/a98h0003/a98h0003.pdf

Compare that to Pan Am 103 where there were many bodies found largely intact and recognisable, some still in their seats, as a result of the plane breaking up at around the same sort of height as MS804 was (37,000 ft).

Air accident report:
https://assets.digital.cabinet-office.gov.uk/media/5422f36ee5274a1317000489/2-1990_N739PA.pdf

Added the TWA 800 report; broke up in midair, 99 bodies recovered within 24 hours.

http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/AAR0003.pdf
 
Go to 19:30 for reenactment of decompression,.


Visuals are from a movie.

The captions on the bottom are directly from the NTBS' final report

[video=youtube;Lbny8XnAifY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbny8XnAifY[/video]
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
94
Guests online
1,642
Total visitors
1,736

Forum statistics

Threads
600,541
Messages
18,110,296
Members
230,991
Latest member
Clue Keeper
Back
Top