Evidence of Heart Shaped Sticker on Duct Tape Destroyed

[Oakley]

My source is that document in the motion. The fbi agent clearly states the evidence was lost in writing.

Which document in the motion? Provide a link, please. We need to ensure what we state is completely accurate and factual.

 

[RR0004]

My source is that document in the motion. The fbi agent clearly states the evidence was lost in writing.

Lost because there wasn't enough to save for further testing is very different then destroyed...don't you think?

 

[notthatsmart]

Which document in the motion? Provide a link, please. We need to ensure what we state is completely accurate and factual.

It is in this thread. It is the subject of this thread.

Here is the link to the fbi lab activity and communication log.

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0924/21103527.pdf

 

[notthatsmart]

Lost because there wasn't enough to save for further testing is very different then destroyed...don't you think?

All they had to do was take a picture of it before they tested it.

 

[Oakley]

It is in this thread. It is the subject of this thread.

Here is the link to the fbi lab activity and communication log.

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0924/21103527.pdf

Where in that activity log does it state that "it doesn't exist" or that it was "destroyed?" Maybe you need to read it more carefully. It is difficult to read but someone on this thread transcribed it for us.

 

[RR0004]

All they had to do was take a picture of it before they tested it.

Still no proof it's not with the medical examiner's office. Again...it would be relevant if the prosecution intends on using it...do we know that they are? Personally, I never put whole lot of thought into the residue... just couldn't get past the tape.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Well that is a good question. Did they destroy it or did they make the whole thing up. Either way it looks awful.

They did not record it whether it existed or not.

The Fbi said they destroyed it.

I cant wait to see this lady get on the stand.

It was recorded. Check here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4219074&postcount=274"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Evidence of Heart Shaped Sticker on Duct Tape Destroyed[/ame]

I, also, am eager to hear the FBI testimony on this. I imagine the person who discovered it (even if a photo wasn't taken) called several people over to look at what was under the microscope. And if not, I don't think it's any big loss. But that's pretty biased to insinuate that anyone would "make the whole thing up." That person would have nothing to gain ~ except, maybe being fired.

I do appreciate your stated desire to find the truth and weigh everything out. But in searching for the truth we have to be fair and even-handed to all parties. Just as I, who thinks Casey is guilty as sin, cannot paint every single thing she has done as evil ~ Neither should anyone who thinks she may be innocent consider that all evidence against her is tainted or worthless. If this were the case, both our opinions and proffered judgements would be without value!!

 

[bailee]

RR0004
I totally agree with you. The residue on the tape was really, not such a big deal. The actual tape and whatever they got from it, be it finger prints or DNA!
It's like the sundae with out the cherry on top, but in the long run it's still a sundae.

:banghead:
as always MOO

 

[Spangle]

It is in this thread. It is the subject of this thread.

Here is the link to the fbi lab activity and communication log.

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0924/21103527.pdf

I see your finding your way around. That is great!

Hmm, It doesn't seem like the report matches your personal report of the event.

The impression I was getting, was the tape was no more. Totally gone. Destroyed by the lab. Yet, that isn't want the report says at all. That is why we look at actual documents. To see if they say what we think or been told they say. The media may spin, but we verify. Or at least, I do.

 

[Spangle]

RR0004
I totally agree with you. The residue on the tape was really, not such a big deal. The actual tape and whatever they got from it, be it finger prints or DNA!
It's like the sundae with out the cherry on top, but in the long run it's still a sundae.

:banghead:
as always MOO

It would have been a nice deal, for the Movie and book deals for the A's. It really made KC look like a huge monster.

Unless they could have matched exactly, and spent tons of time and money.. and boring the Jury to death trying to prove that it matched some stickers found in the A's house. It wouldn't have been brought up anyway.

I bet that future Jury is sighing with relief for getting to miss that.

 

[Snaz]

Well that is a good question. Did they destroy it or did they make the whole thing up. Either way it looks awful.

They did not record it whether it existed or not.

The Fbi said they destroyed it.

I cant wait to see this lady get on the stand.

The FBI did NOT say they 'destroyed' the residue.... they said, and I quote, "a heart shape/outline was noticed on tape, but unable to see it after powder process." Destroyed was a word used by the media and picked up on by people who don't do their own research.

That log is both a record of the observation of the residue, and a record that it was unable to be seen after PROCESSING.

And I agree with bailee, who said with or without a cherry on top, a sundae is still a sundae. You go, girl!

 

[notthatsmart]

I see your finding your way around. That is great!

Hmm, It doesn't seem like the report matches your personal report of the event.

The impression I was getting, was the tape was no more. Totally gone. Destroyed by the lab. Yet, that isn't want the report says at all. That is why we look at actual documents. To see if they say what we think or been told they say. The media may spin, but we verify. Or at least, I do.

I wonder where you got that impression?

I believe the fbi agent reported a heart shaped residue.

I believe the fbi agent did not take a picture of the heart shape residue.

I believe the fbi agent asked others if they had seen the heart shape residue.

I believe the fbi agent destroyed the heart shape residue when dusting for fingerprints.

or

There never was any heart shaped residue and the fbi agent was seeing things.

 

[notthatsmart]

The FBI did NOT say they 'destroyed' the residue.... they said, and I quote, "a heart shape/outline was noticed on tape, but unable to see it after powder process." Destroyed was a word used by the media and picked up on by people who don't do their own research.

That log is both a record of the observation of the residue, and a record that it was unable to be seen after PROCESSING.

And I agree with bailee, who said with or without a cherry on top, a sundae is still a sundae. You go, girl!

Okay not able to see it after powder, destroyed. same result.

Did they say outline? was it an outline or was it actual residue?

 

[JBean]

you guys drop it. It's just semantics. The heart shaped residue is not there anymore. Disappeared, destroyed , eaten up during the fingerprint process whatever.


What are the ramifications, if any to this development?

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

you guys drop it. It's just semantics. The heart shaped residue is not there anymore. Disappeared, destroyed , eaten up during the fingerprint process whatever.


What are the ramifications, if any to this development?

Thank you for getting us back track (once again) JBean.

I think it would be risky for both the defense and prosecution to try to bring this into evidence now. It could backfire on both of them.

1. If prosecution brought it in to try to use it to strengthen the connection to Casey (i.e. her signature love of everything hearts) then defense could use the opening to claim shoddy technical forensic handling (which is what I think they will try to build their entire case on).

2. If defense brought it in to use as an example of shoddy handling/testing of evidence then prosecution could bring on the FBI person (and maybe others in lab) as eyewitnesses. That could heighten the jury's impressions of the heinousness of the crime and its origin to Casey.

It will be a good thing to track during the trial and see how it plays out, huh? moo.

 

[mysteriew]

Thank you for getting us back track (once again) JBean.

I think it would be risky for both the defense and prosecution to try to bring this into evidence now. It could backfire on both of them.

1. If prosecution brought it in to try to use it to strengthen the connection to Casey (i.e. her signature love of everything hearts) then defense could use the opening to claim shoddy technical forensic handling (which is what I think they will try to build their entire case on).

2. If defense brought it in to use as an example of shoddy handling/testing of evidence then prosecution could bring on the FBI person (and maybe others in lab) as eyewitnesses. That could heighten the jury's impressions of the heinousness of the crime and its origin to Casey.

It will be a good thing to track during the trial and see how it plays out, huh? moo.

Oh I feel sure that it will make it into the trial. KC's trial will be based almost entirely on the forensic testing. There are no witnesses to the crime itself. There is no murder weapon, they don't even know the cause of death. So the forensic testing will be a major part of the trial. The pros. will bring this out because they know if they don't then the defense will. So the pros will bring it up first so that they can put their explanation of it in.

The defense will be on the attack for the labs in this case. If they can prove the labs are incompetent on even a little part of the case, then that can possibly put the whole case in doubt. So if the heart sticker was an error by the lab, and the decomp in the trunk is "junk science" then the defense will ask is anything else the labs did to be trusted?

In and of itself the heart sticker is a very small thing. It doesn't prove that KC did the murder, because Caylee could have had the heart in her possession before her death. The only thing the heart sticker might have had value in was proving callousness in the crime. That she put the duct tape on Caylee's mouth, and put a heart sticker on the tape. But if they want to prove callousness, they have pics of dancing, driving the car around even though it smelled, the dumping of Caylee's body. The "script" and lots and lot's of other things to prove callousness.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Perhaps this one trained eye out of several trained eyes just simply made a mistake. I cant wait to see her on the stand.

Me too. Then we will have truth... along with proof of that truth. I have a feeling though, that some will simply forever find someone else to blame, point fingers at and accuse of lying even when truth and proof are staring them in the face.

I am not convinced (100%) either that Casey is the person who killed Caylee but the evidence sure points in that direction.. I will wait until trial before I make up my mind.

 

[chefmom]

At this point, IF there is no picture of the heart shaped residue, then it becomes a double-edged sword. If SA uses it, they give JB room to make the "junk science" and "incompetence" claims that we know he will undoubtedly use. But, if JB tries to claim incompetence due to the fact that the FBI lab damaged evidence of the residue, then, as Snaz stated earlier, he has to first admit that the residue was there to begin with, and I don't think this is something he will do. I would imagine that they are sighing with relief that they may have dodged this particular bullet, as it makes the defendant look particularly mean. I am just hoping that somewhere during the time after it was noticed that someone was able to get an image, one way or another, of this alledged heart shaped mark. If there is none, then it is anyone's guess as to whether they will still use it at trial. I would think not. MOO.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Along with the fact that the sticker residue wasn't the only thing that made LE want another search warrant after they found Caylee's remains. They also needed to get samples of the duct tape to compare as well as trash bags and the laundry bag. Just because there may or may not be a way to prove with photography or the actual residue itself that it did in fact exist does not mean that she will not be found guilty. There are too many extenuating circumstances. As well as the fact that the duct tape was there and there's no way to deny that!
All said with due respect, and of course my O-pin-eee-on

I love your nick!! very creative!! :blowkiss:

 

[mysteriew]

At this point, IF there is no picture of the heart shaped residue, then it becomes a double-edged sword. If SA uses it, they give JB room to make the "junk science" and "incompetence" claims that we know he will undoubtedly use. But, if JB tries to claim incompetence due to the fact that the FBI lab damaged evidence of the residue, then, as Snaz stated earlier, he has to first admit that the residue was there to begin with, and I don't think this is something he will do. I would imagine that they are sighing with relief that they may have dodged this particular bullet, as it makes the defendant look particularly mean. I am just hoping that somewhere during the time after it was noticed that someone was able to get an image, one way or another, of this alledged heart shaped mark. If there is none, then it is anyone's guess as to whether they will still use it at trial. I would think not. MOO.

If the defense has to admit that their was a heart shaped place on the tape, what does that cost them? There are no witnesses as far as we know that saw KC with the sticker. There are no witnesses or as far as we know no fingerprints that show KC placing the sticker on the tape. As far as the heart sticker being there, defense can allege that Caylee had stickers in her possession and that the "kidnapper" must have used them in the crime. So they can use the "lab error" and it doesn't cause them to admit to anything.