EVIDENCE - Pro and Con

[PeterThomasFan]

I don't know the area, so is there any way toward/into PTL without being seen on camera going there?

Do we know if they have Heather's car on film? If they don't then there may be a way.

I don't think there has ever been a reference to that by LE, but it seems there has been discussion about the route she could have taken. PeterThomasFan, didn't you post about other roads in the area and a route she might have taken that would not have her passing those two cameras the M's passed?

I always thought Heather would have taken a direct route to PTL (if in fact she drove there - which is what LE has said early on). That would be down Forestbrook Dr., a short left on Dick Pond Rd., then a right onto Peachtree Rd. to the landing.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/541...1aa03f0b!2m2!1d-79.0481995!2d33.6940623?hl=en

I would assume also that there are plenty of CCTV's from Heather's apartment to the landing. IIRC, we have discussed that. But, LE never produced any from what we know.

I thought also that there is CCTV from the Kangaroo of SM at Forrestbrook and Dick Pond Rd.? And also CCTV at HWY 544 and HWY 814?

 

[New2MB]

You guys have me really thinking this through again. I don't recall any mention of video of her car going to PTL. Maybe there is more to this than we've thought of. I've always felt she was taken from PTL, but never doubted she got there on her own. Was someone waiting there after finding out HE and SM were going to meet, then SM in the black truck arrived, realized what was going on and fled back home? They'd have to have video footage of another car then, or could they have gotten there by boat? I can't remember how close the Ms house is to the water.

 

[jillycat]

I always thought Heather would have taken a direct route to PTL (if in fact she drove there - which is what LE has said early on). That would be down Forestbrook Dr., a short left on Dick Pond Rd., then a right onto Peachtree Rd. to the landing.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/541...1aa03f0b!2m2!1d-79.0481995!2d33.6940623?hl=en

I would assume also that there are plenty of CCTV's from Heather's apartment to the landing. IIRC, we have discussed that. But, LE never produced any from what we know.

I thought also that there is CCTV from the Kangaroo of SM at Forrestbrook and Dick Pond Rd.? And also CCTV at HWY 544 and HWY 814?

This is what I wonder about. I've never heard LE discuss her travel there or report that they have any footage of her car that morning. I've only heard them say she went there.

 

[Knox]

Have never thought she was killed there.

Neither have I. The timeline for the truck leaving and coming back to the house is too tight, and there was no crime scene at PTL or in the truck.

I think they killed Heather somewhere on their property.

 

[jillycat]

Neither have I. The timeline for the truck leaving and coming back to the house is too tight, and there was no crime scene at PTL or in the truck.

I think they killed Heather somewhere on their property.

I think so too. Or close to it.

 

[jillycat]

I have always wondered if one of the Ms abducted H from her home and took her to PTL and then called the other one to say what happened and to get to PTL as soon as possible. All they would of had to do was to get her into that truck. I believe that she was taken back to their house, either dead or alive and then shortly disposed of. That first phone call from SM was the clue to everything that went down that night.

I've always wondered if PTL was a point associated with the crime, as opposed to it all began (or ended) there. I look at it this way. No one knows who was in what vehicle at what time. We only know where phones and vehicles were some of the time, which is different than knowing the location of the parties and their activities. This has always bothered me.

 

[bestill]

You guys have me really thinking this through again. I don't recall any mention of video of her car going to PTL. Maybe there is more to this than we've thought of. I've always felt she was taken from PTL, but never doubted she got there on her own. Was someone waiting there after finding out HE and SM were going to meet, then SM in the black truck arrived, realized what was going on and fled back home? They'd have to have video footage of another car then, or could they have gotten there by boat? I can't remember how close the Ms house is to the water.

That's exactly what I'm saying, this could be a real point here. There may be video of Heather being followed to PTL.

 

[stillwatersc]

How long has the defense known about the DNA evidence mistake? I don't understand why their attorneys didn't get the Moorers bonded out sooner. They knew the $5000 withdrawal that was used to indicate flight risk was mistaken and SM's attorney questioned it immediately - so why didn't they produce bank statements and make the prosecution back down on that a long time ago? The Moorers could have spent Christmas with their kids. I am convinced they are guilty but they have not been tried and convicted and I agree with the judge that they deserve bond. With the monitoring devices, 5 mile rule, stay in the state and putting up $200000 of their own money, he was pretty strict on them.

 

[stillwatersc]

Neither have I. The timeline for the truck leaving and coming back to the house is too tight, and there was no crime scene at PTL or in the truck.

How do we know there was no crime scene at PTL? All the evidence has not been presented at the bond hearings. We have not been told why there are murder charges and why LE says Heather was killed at PTL.

 

[lovinlife83]

If deleted texts from SM's phone were recovered on their home computer, then I have s feeling there is some good evidence in those. During the March bond hearing they only presented a handful of them....I have a feeling the rest will come out during the trial. We just have to wait and see.

 

[jillycat]

How do we know there was no crime scene at PTL? All the evidence has not been presented at the bond hearings. We have not been told why there are murder charges and why LE says Heather was killed at PTL.

Actually, LE said it was circumstantial evidence at the property that in addition to other info gave them their probable cause. I think we'll see at trial, if it goes to trial, that the rest is phone logs and interviews and a parked car. Ironically LE is committed to a scenario where she was killed where there was no evidence of a murder, and their probable cause comes from the property of the killers. We'll see how that works out.

 

[stillwatersc]

Actually, LE said it was circumstantial evidence at the property that in addition to other info gave them their probable cause. I think we'll see at trial, if it goes to trial, that the rest is phone logs and interviews and a parked car. Ironically LE is committed to a scenario where she was killed where there was no evidence of a murder, and their probable cause comes from the property of the killers. We'll see how that works out.

Well I hope they didn't just pull it out their :butthead::butthead: Surely they have something? A drop of blood? Neighbors hearing a gunshot? A cadaver dog hit?

 

[Knox]

How do we know there was no crime scene at PTL? All the evidence has not been presented at the bond hearings. We have not been told why there are murder charges and why LE says Heather was killed at PTL.

I obviously don't know this for certain, but have felt this was the case from the get-go.

The fact the Judge let them make bond yesterday, doesn't make me confident the State found anything at PTL.

 

[Knox]

Well I hope they didn't just pull it out their :butthead::butthead: Surely they have something? A drop of blood? Neighbors hearing a gunshot? A cadaver dog hit?

I thought I remembered something about a tire burn out mark? Was it similar to the tires on SM's truck?

 

[CarmonCayman]

Interesting if they do not have HE car on video. I assumed they did. The gag order needs to be lifted.


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[jillycat]

Well I hope they didn't just pull it out their :butthead::butthead: Surely they have something? A drop of blood? Neighbors hearing a gunshot? A cadaver dog hit?

My impression is that they have a circumstantial trail of events and damning phone logs that connect the M's with Heather right up until she went missing, but that nothing in and of itself demonstrates that a murder took place. LE has said itself that they have no direct evidence, and the "stuff" they found on the property combined with other "stuff" gave them their murder charge. And the defense has now said on record that the "DNA" referenced by LE was that of Heather from her own vehicle.

I don't believe that we will see any blood evidence or cadaver dog hits or anything physical that points to murder. I think this is a purely circumstantial case with no body and the state better have some very compelling evidence and analysis to get these two convicted, because their lawyers are not going to let a sordid tale of a wife scorned and some ugly texts and social media posts have the last word. As we saw yesterday, the defense is prepared to weave a story of reconciliation, forgiveness, and a young woman who persisted long after her former lover ended the affair. And it's prepared to further dismantle the DNA claim, the video footage claim, and the withdrawal of cash claim. Also, in the past we've had discussion here of whether or not LE had SM/TM on video for the IE charge, and the defense has now confirmed that all the state has is SM's statement in the context of greater questioning by LE.

Granted, we don't know exactly what the state has or will present, or how compelling it will be, but we are starting to see what it doesn't have, and it appears the absence of evidence may well be more compelling than the sum total of what it has. This is just my opinion, although it's been my view for a long while now that the murder at PTL scenario is a weak claim.

 

[Dr. Know?]

SM would be stupid to go back with TM. Not that he's not guilty too in Heather's disappearance. If he goes to his family's location, I think he'd have a better chance lowering his sentence. If there's a grain of truth in the handcuffs, the going to work with him on jobs (fgs, smh), the cells phone restrictions, he might have a chance if he tells all.

Bet TM went there today to give him an ultimatum of sorts, if you want to see your kids soon, move back here and stick to the story, we will pay your bail. jmo atm.

 

[Knox]

My impression is that they have a circumstantial trail of events and damning phone logs that connect the M's with Heather right up until she went missing, but that nothing in and of itself demonstrates that a murder took place. LE has said itself that they have no direct evidence, and the "stuff" they found on the property combined with other "stuff" gave them their murder charge. And the defense has now said on record that the "DNA" referenced by LE was that of Heather from her own vehicle.

I don't believe that we will see any blood evidence or cadaver dog hits or anything physical that points to murder. I think this is a purely circumstantial case with no body and the state better have some very compelling evidence and analysis to get these two convicted, because their lawyers are not going to let a sordid tale of a wife scorned and some ugly texts and social media posts have the last word. As we saw yesterday, the defense is prepared to weave a story of reconciliation, forgiveness, and a young woman who persisted long after her former lover ended the affair. And it's prepared to further dismantle the DNA claim, the video footage claim, and the withdrawal of cash claim. Also, in the past we've had discussion here of whether or not LE had SM/TM on video for the IE charge, and the defense has now confirmed that all the state has is SM's statement in the context of greater questioning by LE.

Granted, we don't know exactly what the state has or will present, or how compelling it will be, but we are starting to see what it doesn't have, and it appears the absence of evidence may well be more compelling than the sum total of what it has. This is just my opinion, although it's been my view for a long while now that the murder at PTL scenario is a weak claim.

I agree with your assessment of the State's case.

Find myself wondering if Sid will roll over if he ends up at Grandma's vacant home, supported by his family. Maybe all this time away from TM has made him not want to go back (to being a prisoner in his own home).

 

[jillycat]

I agree with your assessment of the State's case.

Find myself wondering if Sid will roll over if he ends up at Grandma's vacant home, supported by his family. Maybe all this time away from TM has made him not want to go back (to being a prisoner in his own home).

At times I think that he is either in so deep with TM that no disclosure can free him, or, he is afraid of what she's said or might say behind closed doors and is aligning with her to avoid being done in by her. Other times I wonder if he'll roll once in a environment that is, as you say, supportive, and independent of TM and her family's influence and control. But I would think he'd need a pretty nice incentive to talk.

 

[jillycat]

Actually, as I think more about it, it would not make sense for SM to say anything at all until his atty has filed every last motion. If there's a chance he can walk based on insufficient evidence (prior to a jury getting the case), he has no reason to take such a risk.