Evidence revealed during the course of the Wrongful Death action

[bourne]

I don't know if Dina was frustrated with the divorce decree BEFORE Max's accident-- if there is a "gag" clause, it hardly mattered before Max's death. If a "gag" clause exists (and IMO, it sure looks that way), Jonah had it put in to protect his business & reputation.

IMO, if the gag exists, Dina could have been frustrated AFTER Max's accident and Rebecca's death, since she wouldn't be able to say anything at all about Jonah publicly-- only about Rebecca and her minor sister. She could neither praise nor criticize Jonah. The only time they have appeared united in public is in the ONE written statement they reportedly released together announcing and mourning Max's death. They didn't even endorse or support each other's memorial organizations for Max-- that's how far apart they are, IMO.

I think it's virtually certain Dina is under a gag clause WRT the terms of their divorce, as well as being enjoined from saying anything at all publicly about Jonah. I think it's entirely possible she forfeits her awards (life estate, $$, etc) if she breaks the gag clause. That is the only thing that I think would persuade Dina to be so silent about Jonah Shacknai. She appears to have no other identifiable source of income or career, so preserving what she has from the divorce would be pretty important, IMO.

In your original post, you stated Dina was under gag order for over 3+ years. That implies she was frustrated that she could not talk about Jonah, correct?

So she was frustrated before and perhaps after, according to you. The thing I find most relevant is that her exceedingly increasing frustration likely led her to take out her anger and frustrations towards Jonah onto Rebecca. Hence the hyperbolic murder crime scene. Perhaps Dina had been fantasizing and concocting in her mind how to exact revenge on Jonah FOR YEARS with the rope-tying, noose hanging off a visible courtyard balcony, etc. and when Rebecca came along and Jonah fell in love with Rebecca, that put Dina over the edge. Then to compound that, Max is then injured on Rebecca's watch. So Dina goes berserk and uses the plan she had made in her fantasy against Jonah and displaced it onto Rebecca.

I believe it would be worthwhile, if investigation is undertaken for a future murder charge, to go through Dina's computers (especially her old ones) and see if she had made searches for noose-making, binding of hands and feet, the purchase/rental of "The Housemaid" video, etc.

I think there could be potentially a mountain load of physical evidence linking Dina to Rebecca's murder at Dina's multiple homes. Best place to start is her computers wherein she might even have jotted down in a diary/journal her hateful, vengeful plans towards Jonah and Rebecca.

 

[bourne]

snipped



Just to be clear, CPS was not 'investigating' Rebecca nor her minor sister. CPS was in the very initial stages of a report concerning Maxie. Routine when a child presents with injuries to any mandated reporter.

Extraordinarily valid, accurate and significant point to be repeated: As screecher stated above, it is *routine* for an investigation to be initiated upon presentation of an injured child at a hospital. The investigation was not specifically targeted at anyone (so neither Rebecca nor her sister were subjects to any criminal investigation as some poster negligently stated above) as again the investigation was simply generic standard protocol.

 

[bourne]

I personally don't believe Jonah allowed Nina to use his car so she could help Dina confront Rebecca. I have always believed Dina disappeared from the hospital leaving her phone behind. Not for the purpose of an alibi. I think she simply forgot it or maybe didn't want to be bothered or stopped by anyone. As well it has been my opinion that Nina and Jonah did not know Dina had left the hospital. It is my opinion Dina left in a rage and didn't want anyone to stop her. It is also my opinion once they realized Dina was gone (her car and not answering her phone) they both became worried. At this time it is my opinion Jonah lent Nina his car to check on Dina and Rebecca. It is my belief Nina went to the mansion because she could not find her sister. The rest....well we all have our opinions.

Imo, Jonah knows what happened, but not until it was all over. I don't believe Jonah participated in the events that unfolded at the mansion. I personally believe Jonah has helped coverup the truth, simply for self preservation. I can't reconcile Nina using Jonah's car if Dina's car was at the hospital. I also cannot find any other reason except Dina was not at the hospital for her to be able to avoid hospital surveillance. Most recently the revelation the clothing Rebecca wore that evening has never been found is a huge red flag. Imo, there is only ONE logical reason for Rebecca's clothes to be missing.

As well, I cannot understand how anyone can question the ME's findings regarding Maxie's death yet not question the ME's findings in Rebecca's death. In my eyes it is so evident neither received a proper investigation but for some reason it has to be one or the other. SMH

*****All of the above is my opinion and mere speculation*****

I agree with everything you've said here but I'm curious what do you meant "there is only ONE logical reason for Rebecca's clothes to be missing"? Please expound on that statement.

While I believe both Rebecca and Max's cases were closed hastily without proper analysis and Rebecca's case closed without even proper collection of evidence, I believe that whereas the ruling of Rebecca's death as a suicide is deeply flawed, Max's death was ruled correctly as an accident based on the available physical evidence. So I suppose I take the complete antithetical view to the suiciders' beliefs.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Just to be clear, CPS was not 'investigating' Rebecca nor her minor sister. CPS was in the very initial stages of a report concerning Maxie. Routine when a child presents with injuries to any mandated reporter.

You are correct - Child Protective Services did not even get a chance to begin the investigation by interviewing Rebecca Zahau. She took her own life before they could.

 

[bourne]

You are correct - Child Protective Services did not even get a chance to begin the investigation by interviewing Rebecca Zahau. She took her own life before they could.

WRONG. Unless you can cite a police report or a link stating that Rebecca was absolutely being investigated for Max's accident, then your statement is clearly WRONG. It is also WRONG in light of the fact that Max's death was ruled "an accident" by LE and ME.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Rebecca's clothing was not missing. They were neatly folded on the bed.

3. The search for clues can lead to idiosyncratic rules of thumb in making a decision. For example, a thing I look for in a drowning is whether or not the clothes are left folded. If they are found neatly folded on the beach, it usually points to a suicide.


Read more at http://www.s-cool.co.uk/a-level/soc...t/introduction-to-suicide#Ywt7ddAzvv4xzbcL.99

 

[LuckyLucy2]

WRONG. Unless you can cite a police report or a link stating that Rebecca was absolutely being investigated for Max's accident, then your statement is clearly WRONG. It is also WRONG in light of the fact that Max's death was ruled "an accident" by LE and ME.

Yes, ruled an accident because the main suspect killed herself less than 42 hours after Max's injuries, and the only other witnesses was sent over 1000 miles away less that 30 hours after his injuries. Rebecca made sure that there was no one in Coronado to investigate.

 

[Ausgirl]

It IS standard procedure to call CPS -- that is a fact -- and to repeatedly state otherwise is just cheap trolling for reaction, IMO.

 

[K_Z]

In your original post, you stated Dina was under gag order for over 3+ years. That implies she was frustrated that she could not talk about Jonah, correct?

So she was frustrated before and perhaps after, according to you.

Snipped for focus.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I think Dina may be subject to two different "gag" orders. Speculation only, from my observations of her behavior over the last 3 years, since this hit the news.

The first gag order I think she may be subject to, was potentially put in place at the conclusion her and Jonah's divorce, that would be still in effect, and prevent her from talking at all about Jonah, publicly.

The second gag order or "gag suggestion", I think, may be a result of the Zahau family taking some action legally to prevent her from speaking publicly about the minor, XZ (as well as staying away from her, which wouldn't be that hard, as they are in different states). That would be a child order of protection, if it exists, and IMO, the Zahau family would have been thoroughly justified seeking such an order against Dina. I believe it would have easily been granted, given the circumstances. They could not prevent Dina from talking about Rebecca, since Rebecca is dead-- but XZ is very much alive, and is a minor, and minors are entitled to legal protections from adults that are harming, harassing, or stalking them.

Or perhaps it was sufficient for the Zahau family to have their attorney simply send a "cease and desist" letter or 2 to Dina and her attorney, with threats of legal action if she didn't stop talking about XZ in her interviews.

I don't know that a child order of protection exists, but it's awfully suspicious that as she was ramping up her interviews, and beginning to name and discuss XZ in addition to RZ in her accusations, that very abruptly Dina (who appeared very much to enjoy the media attention), stopped seeking interviews at all. The last one I recall is the one with the odd TV guy that sat way too close to her and touched her knees a lot. She was very specific in that interview about her accusations.....then rather abruptly stopped giving, or presumably stopped seeking, further interviews. She's been pretty quiet and out of the media since that "knee touching" interview. (Can't think of that guy's name.)

Either way, I don't think Dina would voluntarily stop talking about Rebecca and her sister, nor do I think she would be so silent about Jonah, without court orders, and threats of losing her awards from the divorce. JMO.

Why is this relevant to the WDS? If there is a child order of protection for Rebecca's minor sister against her, I think a jury would find that is pretty interesting.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

What I find fascinating is that no one on the side of "murder" has ever discussed the allegations that the Zahaus sent to the Court. The Zahaus laid out what they believed happened- down to Adam not being able to resist putting black paint on Rebecca's nipples - very detailed, and step-by-step from the time they believe Dina and Nina arrived to the time everyone left. Yet no one seems to want to discuss the actual allegations that are going before the court.

Why is that? Is it because their allegations are so ridiculous?

 

[K_Z]

It IS standard procedure to call CPS -- that is a fact -- and to repeatedly state otherwise is just cheap trolling for reaction, IMO.

Yes, I agree. I have posted on it a number of times thru the years of this case.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Wrongful-Death-action&p=11277381#post11277381

 

[K_Z]

What I find fascinating is that no one on the side of "murder" has ever discussed the allegations that the Zahaus sent to the Court. The Zahaus laid out what they believed happened- down to Adam not being able to resist putting black paint on Rebecca's nipples - very detailed, and step-by-step from the time they believe Dina and Nina arrived to the time everyone left. Yet no one seems to want to discuss the actual allegations that are going before the court.

Why is that? Is it because their allegations are so ridiculous?

Well, I don't think their allegations are ridiculous. Not at all. I think their allegations are quite plausible, and fit with the available evidence. My opinion is that only Rebecca's murderer/s know precisely in which order they did the events while they were murdering her. Maybe they will tell the truth about what they did. But I doubt it.

Maybe they will rapidly settle the lawsuit next week to keep it all quiet and out of the news. Maybe the case will continue on to trial. Maybe it will be thrown out. None of us know at this point what the outcome will be. I'm just really very glad that the Zahau's have the opportunity to have depositions and discovery, and try their case. It's really sad and frustrating, IMO, that there hasn't been a competent criminal investigation, charges, and a trial. It's always horrible when murderers aren't brought to justice criminally. It doesn't make the murdered person any less murdered, when murderers aren't held accountable.

But this is a civil suit, and the only damage awards will be money, and hopefully more progress toward the truth of what happened to Rebecca. I hope the Zahaus win a big settlement, but it's just as likely they won't. I'm a realist about these kind of cases.

 

[MyBelle]

It IS standard procedure to call CPS -- that is a fact -- and to repeatedly state otherwise is just cheap trolling for reaction, IMO.

No, it isn't standard procedure to report every patient accident to CPS. The sheer volume would over-whelm the system. Dr. Peterson asked for CPS/police because he wasn't satisfied with the explanation. This was covered extensively in the media.

In a follow-up investigation, Dr. Brad Peterson said after four days of medical testing, they could not determine the cause of a cardiac arrest suffered by Maxfield Shacknai.

The search warrant goes on to say "Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai. Dr. Peterson expressed concerns made based on the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai's fall. Maxfield later died."

Read more: http://www.kpho.com/story/15527429/...shacknai-suffocated-before-fall#ixzz3LFkcNkMf

 

[*Lash*]

What I find fascinating is that no one on the side of "murder" has ever discussed the allegations that the Zahaus sent to the Court. The Zahaus laid out what they believed happened- down to Adam not being able to resist putting black paint on Rebecca's nipples - very detailed, and step-by-step from the time they believe Dina and Nina arrived to the time everyone left. Yet no one seems to want to discuss the actual allegations that are going before the court.

Why is that? Is it because their allegations are so ridiculous?

Because it is not true and I respectfully disagree NO ONE has discussed the allegations in the SAC. The details laid out in the SAC were discussed beginning back on 7/11/2014 when the complaint was amended. Before the evidence thread was created. The discussion starts at the link posted below. Including the detail regarding Rebecca's missing clothing.

SAC page 6 -

Based on the facts that DECEDENT was found naked and the clothing she was wearing on that date was not found at the scene of the murder, Plaintiffs allege that once inside the residence, the Defendants stripped off her clothing. Based on the tape residue found on DECEDENT’s legs, and the fact that no tape with similar adhesive was found at the scene, Plaintiffs allege that the Defendants first restrained DECEDENT with tape, and gagged her, while they were devising and planning the rest of the scheme, and later removed the tape from the scene.

Link where discussion begins -
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...th-Suit-filed-Nov-13-2013-in-California/page2

 

[Ausgirl]

Yes, I agree. I have posted on it a number of times thru the years of this case.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Wrongful-Death-action&p=11277381#post11277381

What would have had to be a factor in a report made by the hospital, as is documented in the autopsy report, is that Max not only had present serious injury, but quite a number of visible, *healing* wounds and abrasions. IMO it would be neglectful for a hospital to admit a child with a serious injury --and-- a number of old wounds, and NOT report the case to CPS, no matter what the policy on unsupervised injury might be.

Dina asks, in the media, why Det Atkins would direct CPS to cease calling her.... And the obvious answer is because she was satisfied that both sets of injuries were accidental. eta: AND ofc, that Dina was not present at the mansion the day Max was fatally injured.

Bringing this round to some semblance of relevance to the thread at hand -- that Dina used this CPS thing as a platform to accuse Rebecca of child abuse is demonstrative of the level of sustained rage toward Rebecca.

 

[justice be served]

No, it isn't standard procedure to report every patient accident to CPS. The sheer volume would over-whelm the system. Dr. Peterson asked for CPS/police because he wasn't satisfied with the explanation. This was covered extensively in the media.

In a follow-up investigation, Dr. Brad Peterson said after four days of medical testing, they could not determine the cause of a cardiac arrest suffered by Maxfield Shacknai.

The search warrant goes on to say "Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai. Dr. Peterson expressed concerns made based on the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai's fall. Maxfield later died."

Read more: http://www.kpho.com/story/15527429/...shacknai-suffocated-before-fall#ixzz3LFkcNkMf

I believe the other posters are saying in a child's fatal accident that CPS investigation is routine. Your link indicates that Dr. Peterson's concerns that precipitated the search warrant was four days after Max's accident. Rebecca was already dead. Obviously Rebecca wasn't at that point dodging the CPS as some posters keep stating.

 

[MyBelle]

What would have had to be a factor in a report made by the hospital, as is documented in the autopsy report, is that Max not only had present serious injury, but quite a number of visible, *healing* wounds and abrasions. IMO it would be neglectful for a hospital to admit a child with a serious injury --and-- a number of old wounds, and NOT report the case to CPS, no matter what the policy on unsupervised injury might be.

Dina asks, in the media, why Det Atkins would direct CPS to cease calling her.... And the obvious answer is because she was satisfied that both sets of injuries were accidental.

Bringing this round to some semblance of relevance to the thread at hand -- that Dina used this CPS thing as a platform to accuse Rebecca of child abuse is demonstrative of the level of sustained rage toward Rebecca.

Under California Statute, only injuries that a mandated reporter believes to be non-accidental are required by law be reported. Not every injury to a child results in a report to CPS. Children's hospital physicians do handle a lot of truly accidental injuries.

Under the law, when the victim is a
child (a person under the age of 18)
and the perpetrator is any person
(including a child), the following types
of abuse must be reported by all
legally mandated reporters:
a. A
physical injury
inflicted by other
than accidental means on a child.
(P.C. 11165.6)


http://www.dominican.edu/academics/resources/facultyresources/file/childabuselaw.pdf

 

[*Lash*]

I agree with everything you've said here but I'm curious what do you meant "there is only ONE logical reason for Rebecca's clothes to be missing"? Please expound on that statement.

While I believe both Rebecca and Max's cases were closed hastily without proper analysis and Rebecca's case closed without even proper collection of evidence, I believe that whereas the ruling of Rebecca's death as a suicide is deeply flawed, Max's death was ruled correctly as an accident based on the available physical evidence. So I suppose I take the complete antithetical view to the suiciders' beliefs.

In my opinion the only reason the clothing Rebecca was wearing that day is missing is because it contains DNA from her murderer(s).

I think we both agree Maxie's manner of death and cause of death were ruled correctly. I personally don't believe the illustration of Maxie's accident presented during the press conference is possible. I think it was another piece of the investigation that was rushed. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Ausgirl]

No, it isn't standard procedure to report every patient accident to CPS. The sheer volume would over-whelm the system. Dr. Peterson asked for CPS/police because he wasn't satisfied with the explanation. This was covered extensively in the media.

In a follow-up investigation, Dr. Brad Peterson said after four days of medical testing, they could not determine the cause of a cardiac arrest suffered by Maxfield Shacknai.

The search warrant goes on to say "Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai. Dr. Peterson expressed concerns made based on the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai's fall. Maxfield later died."

Read more: http://www.kpho.com/story/15527429/...shacknai-suffocated-before-fall#ixzz3LFkcNkMf

Search warrants also asked for belts, ropes, clothing, bedding, plastic bags, electrical cords, as well as other items capable of being used for strangulation or suffocation as part of the investigation into Max's fall.

Read more: http://www.kpho.com/story/15527429/...shacknai-suffocated-before-fall#ixzz3LFpk4mZx

Ah, I see.. I have only seen the quote about "visible injuries" and assumed this was concern about the "healing abrasions" in the AP. I wasn't aware that the search warrants were solely regarding Max's immediate injury. Thank you for clearing this up for me. I'm not sure what visible injuries he meant, then -- no need to expound here, it's OT and I can go read the material for myself.

 

[MyBelle]

I believe the other posters are saying in a child's fatal accident that CPS investigation is routine. Your link indicates that Dr. Peterson's concerns that precipitated the search warrant was four days after Max's accident. Rebecca was already dead. Obviously Rebecca wasn't at that point dodging the CPS as some posters keep stating.

The California statute is pretty straight-forward. Only injuries believed to be non-accidental are mandated to be reported. Max and Rebecca were both still alive when Dr. Peterson asked for CPS. He told police he did so because the injuries did not fit with the explanation, i.e., he had concluded there was a possibility they were non-accidental. Once RZ died, there would be no reason to further investigate.