Evidence revealed during the course of the Wrongful Death action

[Ausgirl]

^ But if she died *before* the report was made, how does that figure with "once RZ died..." etc. Didn't she die just two days after he was admitted? But the report was made four days later? /confused

I must have been off-planet when all this was discussed on the Max forum. Sorry, all.

 

[justice be served]

H

^ But if she died *before* the report was made, how does that figure with "once RZ died..." etc. Didn't she die just two days after he was admitted? But the report was made four days later? /confused

I must have been off-planet when all this was discussed on the Max forum. Sorry, all.

My point exactly. Thank you.

 

[Ausgirl]

Well, the only reason I'm still discussing this at all here (I do try to not go OT by entering discussion of Max's case too much - though clearly I should do a bit more reading!..) is that IF the doctor made the report *prior* to Rebecca's death -- and that gave Dina *genuine* and documented cause to believe that Max was a victim of homicide -- wouldn't that add a ton of weight to potential motive in this present case?

 

[Ausgirl]

Aha! Quick refresher reading shows that the CPS report was "pending" from a (CPS??? Hospital???) social worker (not the doctor at that point) BUT the doctor did not file it with police until *after* Rebecca had died.. (isn't that the social worker's job, though???) ... so 4 days after Max was admitted, two days after Rebecca died, the police are contacted by the doctor, not the social worker? ... and they then apply for a warrant to search the house for materials potentially relevant to the doctor's concern re "suffocation". In order to investigate and possibly charge -- a dead woman? :waitasec:

The police request the search warrant be sealed --- and I don't understand this at all --- "for fear the perpetrators can destroy evidence".

But Rebecca was dead and XZ was out of the country (this is mentioned in the same document, even) -- WHAT "perpetrators"??

Does all this seem a bit off to anyone else? The 4-day delay in reporting suspicions to police? About a dead woman? Who they feared would destroy evidence? It's a total rabbit hole to me, presently.

Can the social worker (and/or doctor) be called to testify, as to what if any conversations pertaining to these concerns he/she might have had with Dina prior to Rebecca's death? They MUST have been aware that ONLY RZ and XZ were present when Max was injured..

 

[Betty P]

Aha! Quick refresher reading shows that the CPS report was "pending" from a (CPS??? Hospital???) social worker (not the doctor at that point) BUT the doctor did not file it with police until *after* Rebecca had died.. (isn't that the social worker's job, though???) ... so 4 days after Max was admitted, two days after Rebecca died, the police are contacted by the doctor, not the social worker? ... and they then apply for a warrant to search the house for materials potentially relevant to the doctor's concern re "suffocation". In order to investigate and possibly charge -- a dead woman? :waitasec:

The police request the search warrant be sealed --- and I don't understand this at all --- "for fear the perpetrators can destroy evidence".

But Rebecca was dead and XZ was out of the country (this is mentioned in the same document, even) -- WHAT "perpetrators"??

Does all this seem a bit off to anyone else? The 4-day delay in reporting suspicions to police? About a dead woman? Who they feared would destroy evidence? It's a total rabbit hole to me, presently.

Can the social worker (and/or doctor) be called to testify, as to what if any conversations pertaining to these concerns he/she might have had with Dina prior to Rebecca's death? They MUST have been aware that ONLY RZ and XZ were present when Max was injured..

Yes, I recall the extensive discussion of that timeline. IIRC, one of the doctors decided an investigation wasn't necessary after learning the full details of Max's COD at the autopsy. The dog and pony show at the mansion after the deaths of both RZ and MS seems to have been staged as an intimidation tactic, or in the hopes of someone planting incriminating evidence, MOO. Regardless of the reason, it makes no sense when the accused and the victim are both deceased.

 

[Ausgirl]

I'm not sure I have -ever- heard of such a thing happening. Perhaps it can all be added to the list of "unusual" and "inexplicable" things surrounding this case.

 

[MissUnderstood]

If Max's mum believes his death was murder have they bought forth a wrongful death suit also?

What a confusing and bizarre situation!

So it could be:
1 - max is injured by accidental fall and RZ commits suicide

2 - max is injured by accidental fall and RZ is murdered

3 - Max's injuries where intentional and RZ commits suicide

4 - Max's injuries where intentional and RZ is murdered.

Max's injuries occurred before Rebecca's death, but it is unknown if she knew he would not recover?




MOO!!

 

[K_Z]

If Max's mum believes his death was murder have they bought forth a wrongful death suit also?

Snipped for focus.

Neither of Max's parents chose to file a wrongful death lawsuit. The statute of limitations has now passed, so it appears to be too late for that.

Dina did appear to be building up to filing a WDS-- at one point, she sued the county to obtain Max's autopsy photos, and she hired 2 experts to review her son's case and write reports. Following that, she tried several other avenues to have Max's case re-opened, which were unsuccessful. She made many media appearances discussing her theories. She hasn't done any media appearances for quite some time now-- she abruptly stopped after an interview many months ago where she was quite specific about who she accused of hurting Max.

Jonah has never signaled that he was planning any kind of legal action, and he has not made any public statements about Max other than the death announcement, and a few appearances related to his memorial foundation, "Max in Motion" (which is quite active and successful, by the way). Jonah has never said he believes Max's death was not a tragic accident. (He has never commented at all about the circumstances of Max's death.) He and Dina have not collaborated publicly on anything related to Max, other than releasing the death and mourning statement.

There is an old thread in this forum that discusses possibilities why Max's parents didn't file a WDS-- it's locked, but you can still read there:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-parents-file-a-civil-wrongful-death-lawsuit

 

[bourne]

If Max's mum believes his death was murder have they bought forth a wrongful death suit also?

Point being they should have, but Max's mother Dina didn't. Why? Because IMO she knows the truth: Max's injury was a freak accident.

 

[bourne]

The police request the search warrant be sealed --- and I don't understand this at all --- "for fear the perpetrators can destroy evidence".

But Rebecca was dead and XZ was out of the country (this is mentioned in the same document, even) -- WHAT "perpetrators"??

...Unless the said perpetrators the police are investigating were NOT Rebecca or her younger teen sis but rather some other person(s) at the mansion. There was discussion that Jonah's older kids were at the mansion, and also I recall someone saying that Dina was supposed to be there to pick up Max that morning, so perhaps the police were considering Dina as a possible candidate for investigation in Max's accident? Who knows? Could very well be Dina the police wanted to check out. We don't know. We don't have all the info from the police. Hopefully the WDS depos will open this can of worm up and clear it up for us.

 

[bourne]

In my opinion the only reason the clothing Rebecca was wearing that day is missing is because it contains DNA from her murderer(s).

I think we both agree Maxie's manner of death and cause of death were ruled correctly. I personally don't believe the illustration of Maxie's accident presented during the press conference is possible. I think it was another piece of the investigation that was rushed. Hope that makes sense.

I agree with everything said here.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

DNA has a 521-year half-life

http://www.nature.com/news/dna-has-a-521-year-half-life-1.11555

Gee, that'd explain all those 50-100 year old cold cases that get solved with DNA *all the time*.

But who knows....... maybe those gloves were lying around on that table for half a century... :no:

This article is dealing with bone DNA in dinosaurs, which is very rare to find, and not DNA that is found on ojects.

Where is Adam, Nina, or Dina's DNA???? NO where, because they weren't in the room Rebecca hung herself from.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Because it is not true and I respectfully disagree NO ONE has discussed the allegations in the SAC. The details laid out in the SAC were discussed beginning back on 7/11/2014 when the complaint was amended. Before the evidence thread was created. The discussion starts at the link posted below. Including the detail regarding Rebecca's missing clothing.

SAC page 6 -

Based on the facts that DECEDENT was found naked and the clothing she was wearing on that date was not found at the scene of the murder, Plaintiffs allege that once inside the residence, the Defendants stripped off her clothing. Based on the tape residue found on DECEDENT’s legs, and the fact that no tape with similar adhesive was found at the scene, Plaintiffs allege that the Defendants first restrained DECEDENT with tape, and gagged her, while they were devising and planning the rest of the scheme, and later removed the tape from the scene.

Link where discussion begins -
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...th-Suit-filed-Nov-13-2013-in-California/page2

Yes you've discussed the "missing clothes", which weren't missing, but folded up neatly on the bed in the master bedroom.

How did the twins get in the mansion? Did Rebecca answer the door and invite them in? Did she offer them a beverage? What rooms were they in? They would not have had gloves on at this time, so where are fingerprints and DNA? Did they not shed one hair? Did they break in?

And how do the Zahaus know they sat on the bed, or that Adam put paint on Rebecca's nipple (and I suppose on all the other places she got paint while she was painting her suicide door note like her hands)?

Did the Zahaus have a video tape from that night? Without any physical evidence, their story is going to be very hard to prove....because iMO, it is not true.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

Yes you've discussed the "missing clothes", which weren't missing, but folded up neatly on the bed in the master bedroom.

How did the twins get in the mansion? Did Rebecca answer the door and invite them in? Did she offer them a beverage? What rooms were they in? They would not have had gloves on at this time, so where are fingerprints and DNA? Did they not shed one hair? Did they break in?

And how do the Zahaus know they sat on the bed, or that Adam put paint on Rebecca's nipple (and I suppose on all the other places she got paint while she was painting her suicide door note like her hands)?

Did the Zahaus have a video tape from that night? Without any physical evidence, their story is going to be very hard to prove....because iMO, it is not true.

That thing about the nipples is . . . I don't know. Do they have some information on Adam having a thing for painting nipples? Where did they ever get that idea?

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Point being they should have, but Max's mother Dina didn't. Why? Because IMO she knows the truth: Max's injury was a freak accident.

IMO, she didn't file because the person responsible committed suicide less than 40 hours after Max's "accident".

 

[LuckyLucy2]

That thing about the nipples is . . . I don't know. Do they have some information on Adam having a thing for painting nipples? Where did they ever get that idea?

They needed to explain why paint was on her nipples, so they are painting Adam as a sex-crazed man-child.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

And let me interject before someone replies with him admitting to watching *advertiser censored*. Something Bremner cooked up and deleted on her Facebook page. Maybe he does like *advertiser censored* - lots of men do- doesn't make him a creepy nipple painting murderer

 

[LuckyLucy2]

And Adam was in a stressful situation. He would not be the first man on earth to wake up with an erection and decide to "get rid of some stress".

 

[Ausgirl]

.. while his 7 yo nephew is lying in a hospital in critical condition.. his brother distraught... this is his first thought of the day: "ooh *advertiser censored*!!!"

 

[Ausgirl]

Yes you've discussed the "missing clothes", which weren't missing, but folded up neatly on the bed in the master bedroom..

How do you know? Really, *how*???

How does ANYone know Rebecca was in the habit of folding her dirty, worn-all-day clothing neatly on the bed before taking a shower, while failing to lay out clean clothes of any kind -- and .. hiding her underpants? Please.

The clothes weren't even examined to determine whether she'd worn them that day. Proof, schmoof.