Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #3

[Herat]

If the hospital wants to stop this nonsense, they should offer something more than the $250k cap for noneconomic damages. Don't know if the family would accept, but this would be their one chance. There won't be any more chances once if her heart stops on its own or the ventilator is disconnected. Then it's the $250k cap.

No.

The proximate cause of death (bleeding) has not been determined because she has not had an autopsy.

There is nothing to settle or offer at this point.

There have been no findings of fact nor will any lawsuits be filed for many months.

 

[jjenny]

...
I would not want to be the judge who has to deal with the three ring circus that is going to be presented tomorrow.

The judge could just follow CA law. She is legally dead under CA law. Hospital isn't required to maintain her on ventillators or get permission from her family to turn this ventillator off. I am very confused as to why judge just couldn't follow the law and allow hospital to turn off the ventillator.

 

[Minette]

I think the Mom is in such a state that she is just not processing/hearing any of it. I mean she is talking about how good she looks and that she is losing weight. The Uncle has stated that he understands she is dead. I think this is one of the reasons Mom was appointed GAL because she is not going to hear what anyone is saying in regards to Jahi being dead. jmo

I think appointing Mom GAL was a pretty slick move on the part of the attorney. In one move, it prevents anyone else from being appointed to the position who might consider NOT making Jahi the focus of a media circus to be in her best interests AND it establishes the precedent of having a GAL appointed for someone who is legally dead. If you are pursuing an agenda of having brain dead patients considered 'disabled' then this is one more brick in the legal wall--"If Jahi is considered legally dead, then why does she have a GAL??" Think about it.

All MOO, etc.

 

[MEN3C]

Veatch Says Let Jahi Mcmath's Parents Choose their Own Definition of Death

http://medicalfutility.blogspot.com/

This is the law he references: http://www.braindeath.org/law/newjersey.htm.

So in NJ, if the parents don't want to use the neurological criteria for death, they are allowed to the the cardio-respiratory criteria.

From that link:

No health care practitioner or other health care provider, and no health service plan, insurer, or governmental authority, shall deny coverage or exclude from the benefits of service any individual solely because of that individual's personal religious beliefs regarding the application of neurological criteria for declaring death. L.1991,c.90,s.7

I am wondering if in NJ, such a thing happens often, and in that case, are physicians required to perform surgeries and other procedures on patients who meet the neurological criteria of death? If so, how many actually do it, or do they refuse due to their moral obligations?

Note that none of this applies in this case as neither CHO nor the alleged receiving facility are located in NJ.

 

[Leilei]

No.

The proximate cause of death (bleeding) has not been determined because she has not had an autopsy.

There is nothing to settle or offer at this point.

There have been no findings of fact nor will any lawsuits be filed for many months.

From what our professional folks have said, the autopsy probably wouldn't be able to prove anything either way now. Is that correct?

 

[newmrsc]

The judge could just follow CA law. She is legally dead under CA law. Hospital isn't required to maintain her on ventillators or get permission from her family to turn this ventillator off. I am very confused as to why judge just couldn't follow the law and allow hospital to turn off the ventillator.

Judges do weird things sometimes. My guess is that the court just wanted to give the family more time to come to grips. But I can't imagine it's going to carry on much longer. The restraining order was extended, but I think we'll see that be the end of it. Maybe wishful thinking on my part! There's no way the facility will be ready to take her by Tuesday, and I think all efforts have been exhausted.

 

[newmrsc]

I think appointing Mom GAL was a pretty slick move on the part of the attorney. In one move, it prevents anyone else from being appointed to the position who might consider NOT making Jahi the focus of a media circus to be in her best interests AND it establishes the precedent of having a GAL appointed for someone who is legally dead. If you are pursuing an agenda of having brain dead patients considered 'disabled' then this is one more brick in the legal wall--"If Jahi is considered legally dead, then why does she have a GAL??" Think about it.

All MOO, etc.

I don't understand the GAL thing, disabled person, etc. In every state brain death is death, and NJ just has a religious exception. I can't imagine how far Dolan thinks those arguments are going to go when they would be dismissed in just about every jurisdiction in the U.S. He's throwing everything against the wall and hoping something will stick, IMO.

 

[vlpate]

I was a bit surprised when I read that quote. Here, thick isn't used to mean fat, it's usually used to mean dumb/slow/dim witted. I was thinking huh? she's dead, she's not going to be the quickest person around.

Thick around the middle = chubby. I prefer festively plump though.

I haven't read the quote or context, but "thick" is considered sexy in some circles.

"Festively plump" :floorlaugh:

 

[sherbetjello]

Just for the newcomers; An excellent article that goes over the entire events that have transpired and are to take place within the next coming days. A few experts here in the article as well:

Jahi McMath: Case heads to federal court Friday

http://www.contracostatimes.com/news/ci_24836094/jahi-mcmath-case-heads-federal-court-friday

 

[Leilei]

Judges do weird things sometimes. My guess is that the court just wanted to give the family more time to come to grips. But I can't imagine it's going to carry on much longer. The restraining order was extended, but I think we'll see that be the end of it. Maybe wishful thinking on my part! There's no way the facility will be ready to take her by Tuesday, and I think all efforts have been exhausted.

Wishful thinking and logical thinking. They have until 4pm tomorrow to show the court their plan, along with doctors and a facility who will take her. And a hearing at 11am, is that a status hearing type of thing?

When it comes right down to the laws I've seen linked here, they don't have anything right now. No place to put her, nobody to do the surgery they wanted in order to transfer her, no specialist to receive and take care of her (I don't even know what kind of real care you would provide to her at this point, she was deemed deceased on the 12th, legally and medically).

Praying that this resolves peacefully between now and the 7th... but I have a bad feeling. IMO>

 

[scubadvr99]

NOT a medical professional!!! My initial understanding was that no facility would take her without having those procedures done. The new one might be willing to. But would they then just move her with CHO's ventilator still in place? I'm totally clueless about these things.

That was my understanding too.

Yes she can be transferred without a permanent trach and have procedure performed at new facility. People are transported on ambulances and helicopters all the time with ET tube and portable ventilators.

 

[mck16]

Does anyone know anything about Jahi's father? I thought that was why her mother was GAL because she has custody of Jahi. Maybe no??? ja

 

[Nana46]

My question may have been asked and answered and I missed it....given that an autopsy would almost have to be performed at some time down the road, how accurate can it even be at this point? It would seem to me that the longer this goes on things in her little body change big time.

 

[momrids6]

Judges do weird things sometimes. My guess is that the court just wanted to give the family more time to come to grips. But I can't imagine it's going to carry on much longer. The restraining order was extended, but I think we'll see that be the end of it. Maybe wishful thinking on my part! There's no way the facility will be ready to take her by Tuesday, and I think all efforts have been exhausted.

Not saying he meant to, but imo, he just enabled the further exploitation of this tragedy

 

[katydid23]

My question may have been asked and answered and I missed it....given that an autopsy would almost have to be performed at some time down the road, how accurate can it even be at this point? It would seem to me that the longer this goes on things in her little body change big time.

That is exactly what my Personal Injury Atty brother said. The autopsy will be useless in terms of what happened immediately after the surgery. Most of her organs have continued to atrophy and change so there will be no pertinent evidence left.

 

[Nana46]

That is exactly what my Personal Injury Atty brother said. The autopsy will be useless in terms of what happened immediately after the surgery. Most of her organs have continued to atrophy and change so there will be no pertinent evidence left.

Those were my thoughts as well.

 

[SophieRose]

There are all kinds of medications that can be given to those that are brain dead to keep their organs functioning. Right now, I know Jahi is at least being given BP medications that are assisting to keep her BP under control and her heart beating. Whatever treatment CHO was giving Jahi, is still being provided as ordered by the court. CHO has been ordered to continue the already established treatment but not ordered to do any more than that.

Other bodies that have been maintained on ventilators for long time periods have received medications to make up for what the brain doesn't produce, to keep the body functioning. Other medications I have read about that have been used in other cases are hormones, meds to control diabetes, thyroid, antibiotics for infection among many others.

The family was asking for BP medications so I don't think she is being given those. Or maybe she is given some but not all that her body might need.

 

[popsicle]

Not saying he meant to, but imo, he just enabled the further exploitation of this tragedy

Yes, I agree. While it is not unusual for TRO's to be granted for second opinions on brain death, the problem with this case is CHO had already given the family a week. jmo

 

[Isabelle]

Would be curious to know what it was that led docs/nurses to suspect something was gravely wrong. My guess is lack of responsiveness, pupil size and lack of cough/gag reflex with suctioning of the endotracheal tube and possibly posturing indicating seizure activity.

 

[SophieRose]

Does anyone know anything about Jahi's father? I thought that was why her mother was GAL because she has custody of Jahi. Maybe no??? ja

One of the court documents mentioned that the biological father was in on one of the meetings between hospital and family. His name was not mentioned in the document but someone posted it on the previous thread.