Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #5

[threecrazykids]

If Jahi is dead, how is she being abused? If Jahi is dead, how are they not allowing her to die a dignified death? She's already dead. The dying process is over. Here's what I stated previously about dignity for Jahi:

Jahi's soul is in heaven. She experiences none of this. We show dignity to bodies out of respect for the family. We know what her family wants.

And it's not as if Jahi's corpse is being drop kicked all over the place. Or otherwise desecrated. What's happening to her body is the physical manifestation of her family's pain and horror. But for them, it is enabling them to cope and go through the grief process. Jahi has all the dignity a child could ever have, in the enduring, passionate love of her traumatized family.

Her BODY is being abused, not her spirit. I am referring to the treatment and dignity of her corpse.
We, as a society, have thankfully passed laws as a whole about the mistreatment of corpses. We simply can't allow people to just do whatever they want until they come to grips with that corpses final resting place.

And I beg to differ with you that her body isn't being "drop kicked" all over the place. What they are doing with her body (in essence allowing it to rot from the inside out) is worse than drop kicking it. Her tissues are breaking down, fluids are leaking, and the body itself is literally decomposing on a hospital bed. You think that's ok as long as the parents are willing to sit around and watch it? That is not enduring, passionate love of a family. I'm sorry. It's mentally unstable to want to sit and watch your child decompose while you take your time accepting the reality of what lies before them.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

If Jahi is dead, how is she being abused? If Jahi is dead, how are they not allowing her to die a dignified death? She's already dead. The dying process is over. Here's what I stated previously about dignity for Jahi:

Jahi's soul is in heaven. She experiences none of this. We show dignity to bodies out of respect for the family. We know what her family wants.

And it's not as if Jahi's corpse is being drop kicked all over the place. Or otherwise desecrated. What's happening to her body is the physical manifestation of her family's pain and horror. But for them, it is enabling them to cope and go through the grief process. Jahi has all the dignity a child could ever have, in the enduring, passionate love of her traumatized family.

IMO, this is not enabling them to cope and go through the grief process. This is distracting them for coping, facing and accepting the process. The encouragement from other sources to continue on with false stories of recovered brain dead relatives is furthering the denial.

This is not healthy and as a society we should help those that are not healthy. We shouldn't encourage them to stay unhealthy by agreeing with them or telling them lies.

When and where does it stop? It has already been implemented in law that brain death is death. Does society entertain everyone that doesn't feel their relative is dead and we just throw everything out the window and say they can take deceased individuals home to do with as they please, or put them in facilities that are unlicensed and allow them to be experimented on by those that don't feel brain death is death?

Do we sit back and watch while the court systems are tied up with cases of those that don't want to allow the deceased go, despite laws and all medical criteria being established that they are indeed deceased?

IMO, Jahi is not being given respect and dignity by those directly involved with this mission and I have a right to stand up for this child if I wish. Even the deceased deserve dignity and respect and this precious child most certainly does.

 

[momrids6]

Motl Brody, 12, of Brooklyn, fell into a coma in June after an operation on a brain tumor at the Children's National Medical http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/1...pull-plug-on-brain-dead-boy-arguments-resume/

rsbm; case was never resolved as Motl died. This is also in NY, and family was Jewish. Jahi's family is Baptist, and in California. I do not remember this family inviting the world into their life.

Let us not forget Mariah Scoon

 

[CHERIE.T]

Nancy Grace ‏@NancyGraceHLN 18h

I guess this hospital never heard about Lazarus coming back from the dead #JahiMcMath

Unbelievable. Does Nancy have any idea how stupid she sounds when she says things like this?

:scared: EVIDENTLY NOT. lol :seeya:

 

[gitana1]

I understand that others believe/feel that the family should do what they need to do because it doesn't involved CHO anymore, etc.

What about Jahi's siblings though? You think they are gonna come out of this okay? You think it's fair for them to be brought through this because the mother, uncle and attorney thinks this is the right choice?

Serious question, and I doubt anyone here would have that answer.

Resoectfullt, I think its an intellectually dishonest argument. I think moving to "Jahi's siblings are bring tormented" is the logical next step in the rage against this family now that the poor hospital staff and other patients aren't being traumatized. That's my opinion.

Many children have to deal with the death of a sibling. Many are much more horrific than this. Like the little girl who died of cancer at home after a 7 month fight, recently and all the town sang carols outside her home as she died. Or countless vegetative or terminal children with things like MS or other disorders who slowly waste away as their family watches.

That's no abuse. It's life. It's death. And since they dont have to witness Jahi screaming in pain for days or panicking because she can't breathe, as many children dying of cancer do, this just gives them more time to adjust to the death of their sister.

 

[seattlechiquita]

Thank you, Zuri. Jahi is dead. She's in heaven. There is no need to advocate for her anymore. I'm sorry you feel the family is no longer worthy of empathy. I don't have that opinion.

I'm just super sensitive to people in the throes of grief. There's nothing worse.
My feelings on this issue and whether or not this family should be "forced" to accept would be different if Jahi was suffering. She is not. Her family is.

They brought their baby in for a routine operation. She was scared. Thy assured her. They were wrong and she suddenly died. That is an incredible trauma to bear. Yet now they are expected to accept what the medical establishment is telling them. And people are actually criticizing their shock by saying, "Well, complications are expected in every operation." as if they had no right to be shocked. Come on.

I believe this was not handled by the hospital as best as it could've been. I greatly admire health care professionals for the most part. But not all are heroes.

BBM this was by no means a routine procedure, and the media and the family have allowed misreporting to continue. Jahi underwent a tonsillectomy, a uvulopalatopharyngoplasty (whodat), and removal of nasal tissue. Not routine at all.

And nope, not everyone is a hero. But not every death at a hospital is the result of a vast conspiracy. This one, for what has been shown with facts so far, was the result of postoperative complications.

 

[Cubby]

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24857784/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-teens-body-may-be

Who do you think plays God more? The people who see that someone is dead and remove her from the ventilator that has now become useless? Or the people who try to keep her artificially in a near-living state in the hopes that by so doing they can force God into performing a miracle?

Who does Dolan think he is kidding. It's infuriating that he'd make such a comment. He along with NW and OS have been playing God since they began this circus. God, not OHC, made the decision about the timing of Jahi's death. In reality, NW is fighting God on this one.

God's will, not NK's will........

This families behavior is insulting to Christians, imo.

 

[Karmady]

Actually, many patients who are scheduled for ICU admit after surgery bypass the PACU (Recovery Room) and go directly from the OR to the ICU.

I don't doubt that. But here, it's been reported that she was transferred to recovery and then to PICU, no?

 

[otto]

But it doesn't seem to matter to the family.
Sadly they just do NOT understand that brain dead is irreversible. :....(

I have to wonder what quality of life they hope to see in someone that was declared dead a month ago.

 

[meanmaryjean]

BBM this was by no means a routine procedure, and the media and the family have allowed misreporting to continue. Jahi underwent a tonsillectomy, a uvulopalatopharyngoplasty (whodat), and removal of nasal tissue. Not routine at all.

And nope, not everyone is a hero. But not every death at a hospital is the result of a vast conspiracy. This one, for what has been shown with facts so far, was the result of postoperative complications.

Thank you!!! This is so true. ANY and EVERY surgical procedure carries a risk of complications, up to and including death. EVEN if everyone does EVERYTHING correctly. It falls under the term a surgeon friend once taught me - 'imponderables'. The human body is NOT a mathematical equation where 2+2 ALWAYS equals four. Far from it.

 

[john's mom]

You know I am starting to think there is alot we do not know. something stinks here. I still have not seen a time for recovery, before the transfer to PICU. I have seen that it was up to 45 minutes in PICU before the bleeding started. I know in the past you are in recovery till you are awake and in stable condition before being moved.

Yes, there is a lot we don't know because the hospital has not been allowed to say anything due to the fact that the family will not give them permission to do so. We can question all day long, but the questions can't be answered yet. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[gngr~snap]

Poor Jahi..

IMO she may have been hearing the warnings from the MD. about her situation. She knew how risky this surgery was. I'm not sure what other family members thought.
At least she woke up and laughed one more time. Her family saw that great big smile one last time!
Bless you girl!
So tragic.
Moo
Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

 

[CHERIE.T]

Don't quote me on this, as it's just an opinion based on following this case and reading some of the articles. My understanding is that after the surgery she was in recovery and then the family was asked to wait for 30-45 minutes while she was transferred to ICU. Everything seemed stable, but she was in intensive care, which means it's touch and go - things can go either way when a child is in ICU. In ICU, someone came up with the idea that the child should have a popsicle. More than one family member was in ICU with the patient and there was some bleeding from her nose. One of the family members was using the suction tube but the bleeding became worse. The grandmother came into ICU and used the suction tube. The bleeding increased until there was a crisis and a doctor was called. I would assume that the family then had to leave the ICU. This is probably when 4 liters of blood were given, but at some point, the patient had a heart attack. She must have been without oxygen for too long. There was most likely brain swelling and then on Dec 11, tests were done that confirmed that there was no brain activity. On Dec 12, she was pronounced dead. That just my understanding from reading all sorts of things.

:seeya: Thanks wasn't enough otto!

 

[otto]

Resoectfullt, I think its an intellectually dishonest argument. I think moving to "Jahi's siblings are bring tormented" is the logical next step in the rage against this family now that the poor hospital staff and other patients aren't being traumatized. That's my opinion.

Many children have to deal with the death of a sibling. Many are much more horrific than this. Like the little girl who died of cancer at home after a 7 month fight, recently and all the town sang carols outside her home as she died. Or countless vegetative or terminal children with things like MS or other disorders who slowly waste away as their family watches.

That's no abuse. It's life. It's death. And since they dont have to witness Jahi screaming in pain for days or panicking because she can't breathe, as many children dying of cancer do, this just gives them more time to adjust to the death of their sister.

What is a reasonable amount of time, after someone has been declared dead, for the body to be artificially sustained so the family can come to terms with the death?

 

[CHERIE.T]

We can only speculate about the reason. From what I've pieced together from the family's statements the Grandma was with Jahi in recovery and she was fine. She was later moved to PICU and had to be stabilised before family could see her. This took about half an hour. When they got there they saw that she was bleeding. This is where things get fuzzy because of conflicting stories. Shortly after this Jahi was talking and laughing and asked for a Popsicle. At some stage after this the bleeding got heavier. This continued for several hours. At one stage the bleeding became very heavy and the family has said that Jahi herself, the mother, the grandmother and step father all suctioned her. Soon after this she went into cardiac arrest. At some stage the mother blacked out and had to be admitted as a patient. Their timeline isn't clear about a few of these things.

We can only speculate based on what we've been told. Medically, heavy bleeding after this complex and major surgery is likely. I personally believe that the bleeding Jahi was experiencing when the family first saw her in ICU was 'normal' post op bleeding. IMO and pure speculation is that the family tragically and accidentally dislodged the clots from the tonsillar beds when they were suctioning her which led to heavier bleeding later. I don't believe that the nurses in ICU should have let the family suction her at all. I'm not blaming either the family or nurses, just clarifying that I think it was a horrible accident. All of this is moo.

We don't know many facts in this case at all so we can't know why she bled so severely IMO.

On my phone, please excuse typos and autocorrects.

Link to quote from grandma talking about her being fine in recovery then being moved to ICU:
http://wqad.com/2013/12/17/girl-predicts-devastating-outcome-of-her-own-tonsillectomy/

More timeline details here, including that Jahi bled profusely for several hours, according to her mum:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4485119

fruity....BIG HUGS and thank you.

 

[CHERIE.T]

If you could have any information about what really happened, what would be most important to you?For me: I would want to know at what point in time was the surgeon notified of the patient's excessive bleeding, what amount of blood was collected as a result of the bleeding and what was the surgeon's response?

B B M
Did Jahi over bleed at any time during surgery?

 

[Isabelle]

The stories I could tell (and the would not be the product of my imagination). Thought about writing a book, but I get pretty worked up when recalling certain events.

 

[Karmady]

Her BODY is being abused, not her spirit. I am referring to the treatment and dignity of her corpse.
We, as a society, have thankfully passed laws as a whole about the mistreatment of corpses. We simply can't allow people to just do whatever they want until they come to grips with that corpses final resting place.

And I beg to differ with you that her body isn't being "drop kicked" all over the place. What they are doing with her body (in essence allowing it to rot from the inside out) is worse than drop kicking it. Her tissues are breaking down, fluids are leaking, and the body itself is literally decomposing on a hospital bed. You think that's ok as long as the parents are willing to sit around and watch it? That is not enduring, passionate love of a family. I'm sorry. It's mentally unstable to want to sit and watch your child decompose while you take your time accepting the reality of what lies before them.

I totally agree. It's horrifying for me to think that someone actively chooses, vociferously advocates and litigates, in fact, to watch their child's dead body decay before their very eyes. It makes me literally gag to imagine this happening to my child in my presence. Am I unique in that regard? I hope not! jmo

 

[fruity]

Thank you, Zuri. Jahi is dead. She's in heaven. There is no need to advocate for her anymore. I'm sorry you feel the family is no longer worthy of empathy. I don't have that opinion.

I'm just super sensitive to people in the throes of grief. There's nothing worse.
My feelings on this issue and whether or not this family should be "forced" to accept would be different if Jahi was suffering. She is not. Her family is.

They brought their baby in for a routine operation. She was scared. Thy assured her. They were wrong and she suddenly died. That is an incredible trauma to bear. Yet now they are expected to accept what the medical establishment is telling them. And people are actually criticizing their shock by saying, "Well, complications are expected in every operation." as if they had no right to be shocked. Come on.

I believe this was not handled by the hospital as best as it could've been. I greatly admire health care professionals for the most part. But not all are heroes.

Rbbm

IMO this is a very slippery slope: that we shouldn't advocate for people if they're dead. I can think of many situations where it would have been gravely remiss of us not to fight to advocate for the rights of someone who died. Isn't that what we do here much of the time? People here advocate for JonBenet, for the Routier boys and for Baby P. And rightfully so, moo.

 

[Isabelle]

What is a reasonable amount of time, after someone has been declared dead, for the body to be artificially sustained so the family can come to terms with the death?

Unfortunately none of us arrived on this earth with a user's guide.