Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #6

[Herat]

I think we also have to be cognizant that the family is very much being shielded from the financial reality of this situation. I know they talk about the donation site, but that is just small potatoes and totally unaccountable. It could have paid for the ambulance transport or maybe it's paying for Jahi's nail polish. Who knows?

However, anyone with a chronically ill family member knows how awful it is to receive those statements in the mail. One after another after another. Unpredictably. Sometimes terrifying to open. The medical necessesity letters. The letters stating how many days of paid care are left. Or those long complicated letters that finally tell you what the insurance company isn't going to pay for.

The family is shielded from that. Such an improbable situation. I suppose Dolan will be happy to tell us how much it all comes to in the lawsuits he files (please pay all attorney fees, too!). Just so unrealistic to think that this can ever be the norm for other distressed families.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

The ramifications are scary and why I have concerns about the ethics involved.

After doing so much reading...I've grown increasingly concerned with the entire organ donor process as well. I've said it before here and I'll say it again....when BIG money is involved, we should all be concerned.

Signing that organ donor card... More than a little scary to think what could happen the way things are NOW.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/563803_2


http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204603004577269910906351598?mobile=y

I urge every organ donor or potential donor to read the above links.

In the hard sell and push to increase transplantations .....
"They" certainly failed to explain in detail, didn't they????

Like the basis for DEATH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nooooo! Please don't go there! Organ donation is the easiest thing to do to save a life. And it needs be encouraged. It's a win win. It's case closed. Donate your organs. The end.

i.m.o

 

[Herat]

Many of those things happen to non-brain dead but otherwise unconscious too.

I do not believe an honest assessment of her appearance to the lay person has been put forth.

My point was.... both sides of this have painted the situation to deliberately mislead. From Dolans "doing well" to posters here implying she's a visually rotting corpse.

I don't disagree with you.

I think Dr. Fiori's report is the most accurate report of her condition, as of nearly a week ago.

 

[Elley Mae]

I doubt she's anywhere near that clinic in NY. They are nowhere near equipped to take care of a brain dead patient or perform surgery on her.

I agree. It's my opinion that where ever mom is that is where Jahi is.

o/t I would like to take this time to Thank you for your post. I find them to be the news on this thread that I have tried to keep up with. :scared: I just come on and read your post and it's like reading the news on this subject. No link required from Donjeta. jmo So glad it's not my job. :blushing: And to all the Medical Professionals, Thank you for all your professional and personal information on this very sad story.

 

[CHERIE.T]

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2162277,00.html

Two page article about faith, miracles and the limits of medicine. Well worth a read, whether you're religious or not. (IMO)





http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tion-needs-declared-brain-dead-month-ago.html



IDK...Her BP and other stats may have been stabilized by a massive dose of meds but I think that if those doctors really are "optimistic" concerning a brain dead person's "healing", their professional competence may need to be re-examined.

I have a feeling that the kissing part may be rather important here. She looks more like herself without the medical equipment in her face so it's easier to think she's just sleeping. (I hope the coroner authorized them to remove the tubes that were in place at the time of her brain death)

Dolan pulls the racism card:



Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember Sam Singer saying anything about the race of any of the participants.

More misinformation (I know we all needed and wanted some more misinformation...):
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...y-brain-dead-teen-improving-article-1.1570343

OMG Dolan sounds like a moron.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Christopher Dolan's continual digs at Children's Hospital make me :sick:

Doing much better than she was at CHO.

Hasn't been fed since 12/8/13 and finally getting nutrition.

Surgeries for trach and g-tube went well.

Jahi is doing good.

Enough already :furious:

 

[swilla2]

I have no doubt that from across the room she looks "ok", and her skin feels "warm".

However, once the sacrococcygeal skin starts to break down and get infected, or some oozing of secretions happens, it will become more apparent in an olfactory way that things are not right. I just depends on the particular bacterial or fungal infections going on.

I think most healthcare providers here could agree you can tell from across the room who the person with the gangrenous leg is. I'm not at all saying her skin is like that, but we have multiple senses and you can maybe fool yourself visually, but then touch (body tone and turgor), temperature perception, and smell start to tell you something different....

.

THIS is exactly what I keep imagining!! *shudders*. This has GOT to be some kind of EPA violation, to knowingly keep a decomposing body in the home. I just can't believe that any mom would want to see this.

 

[meme4]

Seems to me if she had improvedbanghead since the move, feeding tube and trach were placed, they would video as proof to all naysayers......But then again she was moving, smiling and glowing and they didnt video that....hence the concern for privacy.......I never saw my father smile and he certainly wasnt glowing....

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

It's 5:00 somewhere! :cheers:

Well, so it is! *clink*

:floorlaugh: Stop yourself now, while your still sane!!

Hah, it's probably too late for that... :crazy:

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

THIS is exactly what I keep imagining!! *shudders*. This has GOT to be some kind of EPA violation, to knowingly keep a decomposing body in the home. I just can't believe that any mom would want to see this.

I hope that any medical personnel who attend to Jahi are wearing surgical masks and gloves. I got an eerie feeling when I saw the photo of Jahi's hand being held by her mother :scared: I also cringed when I read a comment by a family member (?) who said that (she) kissed Jahi on the lips now that the tube was gone I hope that anyone who comes in direct contact with Jahi is required to wear a mask and gloves and that touching, kissing, etc. the girl is not encouraged :moo:

 

[ferretnurse]

Warning: Don't do Google search for images of "sacrococcygeal" while eating! JMHO

This made me giggle. After being a nurse for a while, I can dress a rectal tumor, clean out a colostomy, then eat easily. But my friend, who is a hair dresser, can't handle graphic discussions with food. She can, however, eat food that she found hair in, which completely creeps me out. #shudders

 

[Isabelle]

I have no doubt that from across the room she looks "ok", and her skin feels "warm".

However, once the sacrococcygeal skin starts to break down and get infected, or some oozing of secretions happens, it will become more apparent in an olfactory way that things are not right. I just depends on the particular bacterial or fungal infections going on.

I think most healthcare providers here could agree you can tell from across the room who the person with the gangrenous leg is. I'm not at all saying her skin is like that, but we have multiple senses and you can maybe fool yourself visually, but then touch (body tone and turgor), temperature perception, and smell start to tell you something different....

At some point the family has to accept that they don't get to keep her like Madame Tussaud wax figure or the embalmed and very carefully maintained bodies of Lenin, Stalin, Ho Chi Minh in a mausoleum, either.

I can smell by just thinking about it. I try to forget.

 

[Isabelle]

Description of decomposition in animals/humans via Wikipedia (I know this is not the definitive source and should have looked up the body farm) states the "Fresh Stage" (and I am sure this the initial stage) occurs when circulation stops. In Jahi's case she would no be decomposing. My guess is any organs decomposing are doing so as a result her cardiac arrest and prolonged lack of blood flow. Your thoughts.

 

[CHERIE.T]

>>>>>>

The mother is in extreme denial that Jahi is deceased. Her denial has been increased by those such and doctor Byrne who say that she is not deceased. Her denial has been fueled and enabled by those at the NB facility, the TS foundation and all the others that have sent these miraculous stories (lies) of people recovering, from death.

She has chosen to listen to these people over medical science and all the doctors, because they have told her that people recover from death.

Respectfully snipped
B B M

I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I'm afraid the mother's denial is at an unhealthy mental place.


Anyone know if there is a St.Judes Children's Hospital in that area?

 

[Softail]

This made me giggle. After being a nurse for a while, I can dress a rectal tumor, clean out a colostomy, then eat easily. But my friend, who is a hair dresser, can't handle graphic discussions with food. She can, however, eat food that she found hair in, which completely creeps me out. #shudders

This is why I can never ever ever eat at certain restaurants ever again! uke:

 

[K_Z]

We also don't have anything confirmed about the "feedings". As others have pointed out, she could simply have a "banana bag" of fluid with vitamins hooked up to an IV, she could be on Total Parenteral Nutrition, she could be getting "some" fluids through an NG or feeding tube. As K_Z so adeptly pointed out, enteral feedings really seem like the wrong thing to do in a patient whose gastrointestinal integrity and function is very questionable.

However, maybe she's gettin 1 oz q 12 hours and it has three drops of enteral formula in it with saline? Someone could call that feeding or nutrition but it certainly wouldn't meet with appropriate clincial dietetic guidelines.

I wonder if there is a clinical dietician consulting on this?

BBM.

Post Mortem Enteral Nutrition Specialist? :facepalm:

 

[Karmady]

I was thinking back to when my mom had her final stroke. It happened in the nursing home sometime through the night Fri into Sat. She was rushed to the hospital Sat and stayed until Wed when the second set of results came back and said that she had a massive stroke. Her brain was damaged and only her brain stem was functioning. She had a living will so we didn't have the whole ventilator issue. We moved her a different room in the hospital and we were waiting for hospice the next morning. But then I looked at the bag sorry for my incorrect name but the urine bad. It was empty. I asked the nurse when the last time she emptied it was and she said it hadn't been emptied all day. So I said ok so her kidneys are clearly failing. She agreed and we stopped fluids and upped the morphine. Her breathing was so incredibly slow. We had the priest brought in and within a couple hours she passed. So I don't know if that is the norm or if she went fast. But her organs shut down fairly quickly.

So now I have to wonder if the iv they gave Jahi and now the feeding tube where is this all going. Will it just stay inside of her?

I'm not a medical professional, but I had a family member who recently had a condition called ileus, iirc, where the digestive system shuts down. And that's exactly what happened. Everything just sat there. He was in ICU for MONTHS and in rehab for even more months. And his brain was perfectly alive. So I can only imagine that this situation would be far worse in that regard. jmo

 

[Quester]

California teen declared brain dead gets feeding, breathing tubes

... Sealey told reporters Monday that Jahi traveled by ground from Children's Hospital to the unnamed facility and there were no complications in the transfer, suggesting she may still be in California.

... "If her heart stops beating while she is on the respirator, we can accept that because it means she is done fighting," he said. "We couldn't accept them pulling the plug on her early."

http://www.fox8live.com/story/24405...lared-brain-dead-gets-feeding-breathing-tubes

 

[Karmady]

Description of decomposition in animals/humans via Wikipedia (I know this is not the definitive source and should have looked up the body farm) states the "Fresh Stage" (and I am sure this the initial stage) occurs when circulation stops. In Jahi's case she would no be decomposing. My guess is any organs decomposing are doing so as a result her cardiac arrest and prolonged lack of blood flow. Your thoughts.

If I'm understanding what the medical posters are saying, and Dr. Flori's report, etc. circulation to her brain has stopped completely and circulation to the rest of her body is likely compromised on an ongoing basis in spite of the interventions. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. jmo

 

[newmrsc]

This is nothing really new, but I just keep thinking how terrible it's going to be for this family when her heart does stop. I guess it's possible they'll have peace that they did everything they could, but IMO the more likely scenario is that all the grief they haven't been letting themselves feel while fighting this and holding out false hope is going to come crashing down. Bad enough to lose your child, worse to keep hoping and hoping and taking extreme steps and then to have nothing at the end of it. They've replaced the grieving process with fighting to "save" her. I know that their lives will never be the same after this, but in all my experiences with loss, it's only the getting on with life that eventually allows things to get better. They haven't done that, and instead have put their whole focus on her and an impossible hope of her recovery. IMO, that's going to make the inevitable even harder to bear, and it's already such an unbelievable loss.

That's JMO, and I certainly hope it's not true and that they will just have peace when it happens. But I think it's part of why it makes me so angry that there are people continuing to fill them with hope about this instead of assisting in the grieving process.

MOO.