Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery #7

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From school's website. http://ecreemsacademy.org/about.cfm :
E.C. Reems Academy is a public K – 8, extended elementary charter school, located in East Oakland, California. .... We are a hybrid school, which is part of the public school system, and we operate as a private school. BBM UBM SBM

from linked nbcbayarea.com news article:
“Most kids are Christian here,” Blair said, “and they believe that if you continue praying, there’s always a possibility. The students understand the debate. They’re just choosing spirituality over science.” BBM

In the 1950's -1960's many public school students could opt out of participating in religious rituals at those schools, but the US SCOTUS ruled the 'option' violated Separation of Church & State clause of the US Const.

Can someone (in education or law?) explain this 'hybrid school' status?
And if separation clause applies to this school's cirriculum and activities?

Thx in adv.

ETA: Others beat me to the question about school status & religion, but I don't yet have a answer.


In the 60's and 70's a child could opt out of daily prayer or pledging alliegence to the flag of the United States of America. Lol, I remember pledging daily to the flag, and that didn't change until the very late '70's early '80's in my town.

Religions became a big reason to get out of class, to not do certain activities a child did not wish too, and families pushed it. In some cases rightfully so, in my case, I was smart enough to say I could not participate in gym class, change my clothes, or shower. I was not even a teen, I was a tween. I caught on. I hated gym, I worked it. My family was of no particular faith, and I used it anyway. I sucked, but I hated gym class.

However, prayers and pledging to the flag are now no longer allowed in schools today at all. Children just get some sort of mixed message, and this case exposes, again, an area that creates the new adults. More confused, more dogma, or lack of it.
 
Gosh darn it! I got blocked from the Jahi facebook and didn't even say anything bad. I simply responded and said how she needs to be able to rest. The really don't want anyone not drinking their koolaid to respond.
 
Gosh darn it! I got blocked from the Jahi facebook and didn't even say anything bad. I simply responded and said how she needs to be able to rest. The really don't want anyone not drinking their koolaid to respond.

Use a free proxy server to view, if you want to view. Just google free proxy server.
 
Just saw this article and it has probably been posted but I wanted to ask about the bolded part

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...nswers-20140106,0,6567373.story#axzz2q2tVpwKb

To meet the legal requirements to take possession of the body, a family must have a death certificate and a “disposition permit.” In this case, the latter was issued by Alameda County Vital Records. Disposition permits are issued after the family satisfactorily explains what they plan to do with the body.

Curious if this is public record as the death certificate is??
 
Gosh darn it! I got blocked from the Jahi facebook and didn't even say anything bad. I simply responded and said how she needs to be able to rest. The really don't want anyone not drinking their koolaid to respond.

I only read but not comment. <modsnip>
 
I figure if some Orthodox Jews believed in this enough to get their state to make special legal exemption for brain death and death, then I'm leaving it up to parents' religious beliefs to tell their children how they should pray. I'm glad we have that freedom.

JMO but I don't think that the Orthodox Jews believe in this (that one can recover from brain death), they just believe that one is not quite dead enough yet if the heart still beats.

Praying for God to reverse death is a part of religious freedom but... He doesn't grant all prayers and this is one that He very seldom does. So telling the kids to pray harder so Jahi returns from the death is just setting them up to think that either they failed God or that God failed them.

No one seems to pray that God reverses gravity.
 
Just a general question - What physical characteristics would the principal (or anyone who chooses to believe she's "not dead" for that matter) be seeing that would make them think she's not dead?

I'm just curious what is making this so unbelievable to everyone that she's gone?

When a person is brain dead would her body possibly still make random movements?

I truly don't know. Would her eyelids flicker involuntarily? Would her feet move if someone were to run something along the bottoms of them? Would her heart rate increase randomly, etc?

The principal claims she/he "saw something". We obviously don't know WHAT that is, but I truly want to believe that we haven't added yet another irrational person into the mix. This person clearly has NO idea the ramifications of what is going to happen by putting themselves out there like this - there have GOT to be intelligent, yet God fearing parents in that school who are NOT ok with the fact that they are perpetuating this nonsense.

I'm honestly trying to figure out what is giving these people the false sense of some sort of life in that body other than the machine beep, beep, beeping showing a heartbeat.

I've admitted I know zero about medicine in this capacity so if someone could give some examples of what COULD be misconstrued as "she HAS to have brain activity for THIS to happen" (followed by a demonstration of some sort of movement by Jahi).

:(
 
According to their ******** site, they've gotten close to $60k in donations. They say they need $20k to airlift her. I assume that info is outdated and they're not airlifting her anywhere, but they've still raised almost three times that amount.
 
I know, right? What debate? Whether she's going to rise from the dead? Whether a brain that hasn't had oxygen since at least December 12 is going to spontaneously regenerate because some [expletive deleted] of an enabling doctor gave her a feeding tube and is giving her 'nutrients' as a placebo for her mother's inability to accept reality?

A dead brain can't grow back! There is no such thing as a brain transplant! The thing that housed Jahi's personality, that gave her the ability to laugh, talk, sing, tell jokes, take care of her little brother, breathe, regulate her own body temperature and her digestive system, it is gone, it can't be regrown! It can't be 'sparked awake' because it is like (to reuse my example) a finger that has had a rubber band around it for the past month. Nothing is going to make that a living finger again, and nothing is going to make that a living brain again.
---------
Minette, I agree. I must say this is why I feel so sorry for her mother. I dont know-is she so engrossed in what she thinks is right, or is she just so uninformed on stages of life? Others may be in this for a "personal" reason but I believe she doesn't understand and never will. This is so sad. to me, removing ventilator, heart stops. Death. I hope I am right. That is what I did with my husband after passage of a few days. This poor woman will never be the same. Clergy should try telling her Jahi is now in Gods arms and at peace. My living will is present. So was his. I would not do that to my grandchild..:loveyou:
 
Taken from the awesome Donjeta's chock full o'links post a couple of pages back:



http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Jahi-McMath-Brain-Death-Tonsillectomy-EC-Reems-Academy-Friends-Believe-Alive-239629891.html

Really? SERIOUSLY? The school has joined in with this mother's denial & delusions to falsely give hope to all of Jahi's little school friends? And planning an in-school event for them to wear Team Jahi t-shirts? Oh, sure, parents were allowed to have their child opt out, but then you get to be that ONE kid in a sea of purple t-shirts who wants sweet Jahi to be dead. These kids aren't getting grief counseling, they are getting enabling counseling.

What happens when she doesn't come back to school and even her mother has to admit that brain dead is dead? Do the kids get to feel guilty for 'failing' Jahi, just like CHO, the courts and everyone else?? Do they get taught that doctors and hospitals aren't to be trusted and everyone is out to get them??

Maybe it's just me, but leading these children to think Jahi is ever going to be coming back to school if they just pray hard enough isn't an act of courage, it's an act of cowardice and it's cruel to them.

/rant off

Oh dear. This bothers me on more than one level. Mostly b/c, if God doesn't desire to do the miracle everyone is rooting for, it's going to seem (to these kids at least) that either their God wasn't enough, or their faith and efforts weren't enough. Not only bad theology (IMO), but devastating to young faith. :(

Let go and let God be God. JMO...
 
Lazarus sign. Lazarus sign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am going to link A VIDEO THAT COULD BE EXTREMELY UPSETTING showing Lazarus sign in a young man aged 19 who suffered a penetrating brain injury and was declared brain dead.

[video=youtube;Nty6bICZlyA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nty6bICZlyA[/video]

These are spinal cord reflexes but they sure make it seem as if this young man is still alive, don't they? So I don't have a problem thinking the mother can provoke movements from Jahi's body by touching or moving her limbs. But it DOES NOT mean Jahi is still alive.
 
I am wondering if maybe a place like this is where they've taken her - **please note, there is NO indication that this is where she really is**

http://www.georgemark.org/index.php

It does reference end of life care under the services listed.

I am not sure how many types of places like are in the area, but this one came up for me when searching.

The only thing is, I just can't imagine any facility where if there were ANY other patients wouldn't have already become public.
 
Just a general question - What physical characteristics would the principal (or anyone who chooses to believe she's "not dead" for that matter) be seeing that would make them think she's not dead?

I'm just curious what is making this so unbelievable to everyone that she's gone?

When a person is brain dead would her body possibly still make random movements?

I truly don't know. Would her eyelids flicker involuntarily? Would her feet move if someone were to run something along the bottoms of them? Would her heart rate increase randomly, etc?

The principal claims she/he "saw something". We obviously don't know WHAT that is, but I truly want to believe that we haven't added yet another irrational person into the mix. This person clearly has NO idea the ramifications of what is going to happen by putting themselves out there like this - there have GOT to be intelligent, yet God fearing parents in that school who are NOT ok with the fact that they are perpetuating this nonsense.

I'm honestly trying to figure out what is giving these people the false sense of some sort of life in that body other than the machine beep, beep, beeping showing a heartbeat.

I've admitted I know zero about medicine in this capacity so if someone could give some examples of what COULD be misconstrued as "she HAS to have brain activity for THIS to happen" (followed by a demonstration of some sort of movement by Jahi).

:(

--------

Hi Three, I worked with a prominent Funeral Director. We talked of things during C.A. case. Yes dead bodies can have movement (dont know about with stimulation) but from gases that form in the body.First time it happened scared the ch&t out of him. I think he said
some reflex motion. The word reflex drove me nuts with my son. That could be gone by now yet with the food going in she may form more gases. There are things they do to counter act this at the funeral home. Of course normal dead are not being fed. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. I'm not wise with words. lol...............P.S. I am not medical. I still cannot see how her heart rate could vary on a ventilator. Someone : wouldnt that be regulated by the ventilator? tia...IMO..
 
<snipped for space>
When a person is brain dead would her body possibly still make random movements?

I truly don't know. Would her eyelids flicker involuntarily? Would her feet move if someone were to run something along the bottoms of them? Would her heart rate increase randomly, etc?

I specifically remember reading either on a medical site or something written by a verified medical professional in here that the feet can respond to touch along the bottom like that due to spinal reflexes. (Those same spinal reflexes are responsible for the Lazarus Sign--movement of the arms after death.) That, at least, is not a sign of life.
 
I am wondering if maybe a place like this is where they've taken her - **please note, there is NO indication that this is where she really is**

http://www.georgemark.org/index.php

It does reference end of life care under the services listed.

I am not sure how many types of places like are in the area, but this one came up for me when searching.

The only thing is, I just can't imagine any facility where if there were ANY other patients wouldn't have already become public.

It's hard for me to imagine any professional facility taking her in when one of the family's defacto spokespersons is (correct me if I'm wrong) a personal injury attorney.
 
I am wondering if maybe a place like this is where they've taken her - **please note, there is NO indication that this is where she really is**

http://www.georgemark.org/index.php

It does reference end of life care under the services listed.

I am not sure how many types of places like are in the area, but this one came up for me when searching.

The only thing is, I just can't imagine any facility where if there were ANY other patients wouldn't have already become public.
That looks like an in-patient hospice of some sort. I can't imagine jahi would be taken there....I'm not sure hospice would allow feeding tubes, etc...I don't think they do unless they are in place before being admitted. But in this case, WHO knows!
 
Just a general question - What physical characteristics would the principal (or anyone who chooses to believe she's "not dead" for that matter) be seeing that would make them think she's not dead?

I'm just curious what is making this so unbelievable to everyone that she's gone?

When a person is brain dead would her body possibly still make random movements?

I truly don't know. Would her eyelids flicker involuntarily? Would her feet move if someone were to run something along the bottoms of them? Would her heart rate increase randomly, etc?

The principal claims she/he "saw something". We obviously don't know WHAT that is, but I truly want to believe that we haven't added yet another irrational person into the mix. This person clearly has NO idea the ramifications of what is going to happen by putting themselves out there like this - there have GOT to be intelligent, yet God fearing parents in that school who are NOT ok with the fact that they are perpetuating this nonsense.

I'm honestly trying to figure out what is giving these people the false sense of some sort of life in that body other than the machine beep, beep, beeping showing a heartbeat.

I've admitted I know zero about medicine in this capacity so if someone could give some examples of what COULD be misconstrued as "she HAS to have brain activity for THIS to happen" (followed by a demonstration of some sort of movement by Jahi).

:(
-----------
Movement caused by reflex /gases..could be maybe. Maybe not reflex. I read the report from Heidi again. (forgot last name). She said in report there is malodorous coming with secretions.my words not hers, this means odors I would think from inside.
 
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