Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors: Ann Rule's Crime Files

[MyBelle]

When detectives have to resort to triangulating your cell phone's location during the time of what is being investigated as a vicious murder, because they have no eyewitnesses as to your location and alibi, and no footage of you on hospital security tapes, you are a suspect. Max didn't have to be dead for revenge to be a motive for hurting Rebecca. He was mortally wounded, and not expected to live at that point. (Ann Rule makes this clear, as well.)

LE didn't triangulate the cell phone of the dog kennel owner, nor investigate his whereabouts during the time of Rebecca's death. He was never a suspect.

BBM. With all due respect, Ann Rule's book says that there were witnesses to Dina's location.

The cell phone records were done weeks after RZ's death. To me, it seems detectives only resorted to the cell phone triangulation to appease those who accused Dina of being involved. And, despite the eyewitnesses to Dina being at the hospital AND the Sheriff announcing the cell phone triangulation confirmed Dina was at the hospital, some of you continue to accuse her of murder.

At the time of RZ's death, the hospital had requested a CPS investigation because of discrepancies in descriptions of the "accident" vs Max's visible injuries...descriptions that came from RZ.

Being the subject of a child abuse investigation is far more a motive for suicide than it is a motive of murder by the mother of a child she believed was injured in an accident. Cops hadn't told Dina of the child abuse investigation at that point.

JMO

 

[K_Z]

BBM. With all due respect, Ann Rule's book says that there were witnesses to Dina's location.

Snipped for relevance.

Yes, I agree that is in conflict with what the Sheriff's department has said publicly-- that there were no witnesses to Dina's presence.

So that would be one of my first questions for AR, if we are allowed to have a thread for questions for her. How did she come to know there were witnesses to Dina's presence at Rady?

 

[MyBelle]

Snipped for relevance.

Yes, I agree that is in conflict with what the Sheriff's department has said publicly-- that there were no witnesses to Dina's presence.

So that would be one of my first questions for AR, if we are allowed to have a thread for questions for her. How did she come to know there were witnesses to Dina's presence at Rady?

Please provide a link to where the Sheriff's dept. has said publicly there were no witnesses to Dina's presence at the hospital.

<mod snip>
JMO

 

[K_Z]

The cell phone records were done weeks after RZ's death.
JMO

Snipped for relevance.

Exactly. Even weeks later, LE was highly interested in establishing, in any way they could, Dina's location during Rebecca's death.

LE doesn't do investigations purely at the request of family and friends of the victim. That would be a poor way to conduct investigations, and not justifiable, fiscally (among many other reasons).

Weeks later. So I think they considered her a suspect for more than a fleeting few hours.

 

[MyBelle]

Snipped for relevance.

Exactly. Even weeks later, LE was highly interested in establishing, in any way they could, Dina's location during Rebecca's death.

LE doesn't do investigations purely at the request of family and friends of the victim. That would be a poor way to conduct investigations, and not justifiable, fiscally (among many other reasons).

Weeks later. So I think they considered her a suspect for more than a fleeting few hours.

According to Ann Rule, LE had eyewitnesses to establish Dina's presence at the hospital.

LE does investigate anyone that a family insists is a suspect.

Still waiting for that link to support your claim that the Sheriff's office publicly said there were no witnesses to Dina's presence at the hospital. Thanks.

JMO

 

[*Lash*]

BBM. With all due respect, Ann Rule's book says that there were witnesses to Dina's location.

The cell phone records were done weeks after RZ's death. To me, it seems detectives only resorted to the cell phone triangulation to appease those who accused Dina of being involved. And, despite the eyewitnesses to Dina being at the hospital AND the Sheriff announcing the cell phone triangulation confirmed Dina was at the hospital, some of you continue to accuse her of murder.

At the time of RZ's death, the hospital had requested a CPS investigation because of discrepancies in descriptions of the "accident" vs Max's visible injuries...descriptions that came from RZ.

Being the subject of a child abuse investigation is far more a motive for suicide than it is a motive of murder by the mother of a child she believed was injured in an accident. Cops hadn't told Dina of the child abuse investigation at that point.

JMO

With all due respect, there are also 2 witnesses who claim to have seen Dina at the mansion. Which witnesses are we to believe. Why didn't LE follow up on Nina's polygraph or give Jonah and Dina a polygraph? This surely would have helped SDSO prove their theory. So much was not investigated and only created doubts. In my opinion, there is no difference when it is stated XZ should take a polygraph. LE should have closed all the holes, not just a select few.

I haven't accused anyone of murder. I believe this was not a thorough investigation and LE should re-open the case.

 

[MyBelle]

With all due respect, there are also 2 witnesses who claim to have seen Dina at the mansion. Which witnesses are we to believe. Why didn't LE follow up on Nina's polygraph or give Jonah and Dina a polygraph? This surely would have helped SDSO prove their theory. So much was not investigated and only created doubts. In my opinion, there is no difference when it is stated XZ should take a polygraph. LE should have closed all the holes, not just a select few.

I haven't accused anyone of murder. I believe this was not a thorough investigation and LE should re-open the case.

I haven't suggested XZ take a polygraph.

As to your question as to why others didn't take polys, why would LE give polygraphs to people when there was admissable evidence that clears them? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

The witnesses who claimed to have seen Dina or heard screams were not viewed as credible by LE or they were not certain enough to be considered credible. I have seen no reason not to trust the judgment of multiple agencies of LE, who are trained, professional investigators.

LE conducted an extensive homicide investigation and the ME concluded RZ's death was a suicide and I agree with their conclusion.

Max is the one who never received a thorough homicide investigation, not RZ.

JMO

 

[Mr Spock]

Dina is convinced, or at least wants to convince us that if she can prove Max was murdered or assaulted by Becky or Xena that it will prove Rebecca killed herself out of guilt. Dina is well aware that people think she and Nina had something to do with Becky's death and its driving her crazy. Her problem lies within the fact that most people think Becky's death looks suspicious like a murder and not like a suicide.

This is out of the box:
1. Considering Dina has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on experts already, it should cost practically nothing for her to get one of the nurses that night to publicly state "I saw Dina by Max's bedside from 12am to 7am" because she is no where on the surveillance tapes. The tapes were likely all over the hospital so why not have someone say "Dina was here at the bed, I saw her". Any children's hospital nurse would be happy to help out a grieving mother who lost her child. She (the nurse) could even just keep her last name anonymous, sign a statement, and have it done with just an attorney present. Why not do that?

2. People can pay about 1000 to 2000 bucks and have a FBI experienced and approved polygraph expert give them a polygraph. Include in it with pre approved agreed upon questions by Anne Bemner's team and Dina's team. I say to Dina, "get it done, for yourself and Nina." That would be a very good start to showing people your serious about proving you had nothing to do with this "murder" of Becky.

For the rest of their lives most people will think of Dina and Nina as one of the two people that were either seen or claimed to be seen busting in the side yard right before a girl they blamed for Max's death was found hanging from an apparent violent death.

They have the ability to do the things I mentioned. I don't think thy will because I think they did have something to do with Becky's death first hand or know what did happen.

 

[Mr Spock]

The eyewitness who saw Dina at the hospital was Jonah who left for 7 hours and Nina who said Dina was there when she left as well. There are your eyewitnesses. Thats why they looked on the tapes and were surprised to see she wasn't there. That was why they did the GPS triangulation.

 

[inthedark14]

According to Ann Rule, LE had eyewitnesses to establish Dina's presence at the hospital.

LE does investigate anyone that a family insists is a suspect.

Still waiting for that link to support your claim that the Sheriff's office publicly said there were no witnesses to Dina's presence at the hospital. Thanks.

JMO

Hi My Belle,

Here you go...

<snipped>
"We knew where Jonah (Shacknai) was," said Sheriff Gore. "If we had come up with unknown DNA during the course of our investigation we could have taken DNA samples from Jonah."

Attorney Bremner said Jonah Shacknai is seen on hospital surveillance video on the night of Zahau's death, but Dina Shacknai is not.

Sheriff Gore confirmed as much during his news conference.

"We don't have her (Dina Shacknai) on surveillance tape," Gore confirmed. "Her position was determined thorough GPS triangulation on her cell phone, which put her in the vicinity of Rady Children's Hospital."

Read more here:
http://www.760kfmb.com/story/160680...ne-some-evidence-not-tested?clienttype=mobile

 

[MyBelle]

Hi My Belle,

Here you go...

<snipped>
"We knew where Jonah (Shacknai) was," said Sheriff Gore. "If we had come up with unknown DNA during the course of our investigation we could have taken DNA samples from Jonah."

Attorney Bremner said Jonah Shacknai is seen on hospital surveillance video on the night of Zahau's death, but Dina Shacknai is not.

Sheriff Gore confirmed as much during his news conference.

"We don't have her (Dina Shacknai) on surveillance tape," Gore confirmed. "Her position was determined thorough GPS triangulation on her cell phone, which put her in the vicinity of Rady Children's Hospital."

Read more here:
http://www.760kfmb.com/story/160680...ne-some-evidence-not-tested?clienttype=mobile

Thanks but that isn't what I requested. I asked for a link---and am still waiting for it--that proves the claim made by K_Z that the Sheriff's dept has publicly stated there were no witnesses to Dina's presence.

Originally Posted by K_Z
Snipped for relevance.

Yes, I agree that is in conflict with what the Sheriff's department has said publicly-- that there were no witnesses to Dina's presence.

 

[time]

Anne Bremner stated on her FB page BBM:

Someone accessed Rebecca Zahau's computer from SW Airlines before she died. Someone also accessed her computer after she died.

Someone accessed her account from a SW Airlines account before she died and generally after. He [Gore] is trying to blame her for what is on her computer. He hasn't accepted that it wasn't Rebecca and points in the direction of a potential suspect.

I'm still scratching my head at why anyone would think Rebecca would somehow access her own computer via a SW Airlines account? And, am also not clear on what accessing it with a SW Airlines account means.

I wonder if Ann Rule could add anything more specific to this. I'm sure Ann Bremner knows more but is holding the specifics back for some reason and could have requested Rule do the same? Bremner vaguely says before and after Rebecca's death.

It almost seems too obvious it could have been Adam - maybe that's why I don't think it was. I also can't see Adam having any SW Airlines card (not a convenient airline from Memphis) and it appears he didn't fly in on SW (although he could have caught a second flight in Phoenix or something). I'm just basing this on doing a cursory search of SW Airlines for flights from Memphis.

I think the possibility is still open that the computer was accessed at one of these two time periods. From 4-8 pm when Rebecca was out picking up Adam and having dinner or from 10pm-midnight.

Just using logic, I just can't see Rebecca doing this on the 12th when she was so busy all day. It doesn't make sense. Also, I'm wondering if her laptop would really typically be in that room? Not sure that makes sense either, was it left there to find easily and hence find the *advertiser censored*? It may make sense that Jonah keeps a computer there for common use?

I'd like to know how advanced the computer forensics were and if the time on the computer could have been changed.

Also, if you were in close proximity to the house, could this easily have been done through remote/Wifi access by Dina or Nina. Could it have been done by the Dr. while he was on a plane? All this depends on what accessing through a SW Airlines account means.

 

[time]

Thanks but that isn't what I requested. I asked for a link---and am still waiting for it--that proves the claim made by K_Z that the Sheriff's dept has publicly stated there were no witnesses to Dina's presence.

Originally Posted by K_Z
Snipped for relevance.

Yes, I agree that is in conflict with what the Sheriff's department has said publicly-- that there were no witnesses to Dina's presence.

If they had witnesses that cleared Dina, they surely would have told the public given how skeptical everyone was that they proclaimed this was a suicide. They never said they had any. Can you provide any link where they did? You are nitpicking when you have said a lot of things that you never provided a link for.

Since Ann Rule says there were supposed witnesses, that still leads one to believe there was some problem with those witnesses actually giving Dina a alibi for the time period surrounding Rebecca's death.

 

[*Lash*]

Snipped for relevance -

I haven't suggested XZ take a polygraph.

I'm sorry MyBelle it was not my intent to suggest you had made such a comment.

 

[MyBelle]

If they had witnesses that cleared Dina, they surely would have told the public given how skeptical everyone was that they proclaimed this was a suicide. They never said they had any. Can you provide any link where they did? You are nitpicking when you have said a lot of things that you never provided a link for.

Since Ann Rule says there were supposed witnesses, that still leads one to believe there was some problem with those witnesses actually giving Dina a alibi for the time period surrounding Rebecca's death.

BBM. The TOS requires links if something is stated as fact. I asked for a link where the Sheriff's office has publicly said there were no witnesses. All I've seen referenced publicly by the Sheriff's office is cell phone triangulation which is evidence.

Ann Rule says there were witnesses.

Dina doesn't need an alibi as she has never been named a suspect.

JMO

 

[time]

BBM. The TOS requires links if something is stated as fact. I asked for a link where the Sheriff's office has publicly said there were no witnesses. All I've seen referenced publicly by the Sheriff's office is cell phone triangulation which is evidence.

Ann Rule says there were witnesses.

Dina doesn't need an alibi as she has never been named a suspect.

JMO

BBM - do you have a link for that? How do you know who all the suspects were if you don't mind telling us? You are stating something as fact with nothing to back it up as far as I can see. I don't think we know who the 6 suspects were except for Adam and Nina. You claim even Nina was not a suspect even though they wanted her to take a polygraph and she was at the house just before the murder.

Where is there a link that the Sheriff's office ever said there were witnesses that alibi Dina? Does Ann Rule say that because there were witnesses, that fully alibi's Dina?

 

[MyBelle]

BBM - do you have a link for that? How do you know who all the suspects were if you don't mind telling us? You are stating something as fact with nothing to back it up as far as I can see. I don't think we know who the 6 suspects were except for Adam and Nina. You claim even Nina was not a suspect even though they wanted her to take a polygraph and she was at the house just before the murder.

Where is there a link that the Sheriff's office ever said there were witnesses that alibi Dina? Does Ann Rule say that because there were witnesses, that fully alibi's Dina?

<modsnip> It IS a fact Dina has never been named a suspect. I'm pretty sure you already know it is impossible to supply a link to something that has never happened.

JMO

 

[Mr Spock]

She has stated that Dina was not on tapes for the late hours that Becky was killed. She has stated this repeatedly. She has stated that the people on record seeing Dina were Jonah and Nina. They were no with Dina from 12 until 7. No medical professional saw Dina there and she wasn't on the tapes.

I believe that Anne is looking more at Nina and her adult son. Nina lied about being a "child" and suggesting he could not be interviewed by police. He was functioning at a high enough level he has a job ,a driver's license, and is an adult. Why is Nina deliberately misleading the police to think he needed a babysitter While Nina goes in for processing? I am surprised she didnt hide him. Why sneak out of the polygraph? I am sure one of the witnesses Anne Rule thinks needs to be grilled is Nina's son and her best friend that was there.

 

[time]

She has stated that Dina was not on tapes for the late hours that Becky was killed. She has stated this repeatedly. She has stated that the people on record seeing Dina were Jonah and Nina. They were no with Dina from 12 until 7. No medical professional saw Dina there and she wasn't on the tapes.

I believe that Anne is looking more at Nina and her adult son. Nina lied about being a "child" and suggesting he could not be interviewed by police. He was functioning at a high enough level he has a job ,a driver's license, and is an adult. Why is Nina deliberately misleading the police to think he needed a babysitter While Nina goes in for processing? I am surprised she didnt hide him. Why sneak out of the polygraph? I am sure one of the witnesses Anne Rule thinks needs to be grilled is Nina's son and her best friend that was there.

Good questions and thanks for the additional info.

 

[Inparadise]

Good questions and thanks for the additional info.

Nina's son graduated from high school in 2010 (with honors), so he would have been 19 or 20 in the summer of 2011, which the last time I checked, is an adult. Why did she make misleading statements about him not being able to be left alone in her interview with David Gotfredson?