FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[Lovejac]

Oh dear....my grandson is white, he's 6'6" and has no hips so for the most part his pants often slip down further than I care to mention. While he does not wear them like that usually it does happen and he's not always diligent about hiking them back up but I would hate to think someone judged him by his clothes just because it resembles a gang's attire. They are kids and do kidlike things. Some kids wear all black, girls with black nail polish and look ghoulish but that does not mean they go out and kill people. It's a phase and kids do things like that.

I think LE described what TM was wearing and it's sounds like something any typical kid would wear to run to the store on a rainy night. If TM had a suit on do we think it would have saved his life?????? jmo

IMO No. GZ would have likely ASSumed he stole it from one of the neighbors.

 

[mikeysmommom]

Gov. Scott appoints special prosecutor in Trayvon Martin case
by Dara Kam | March 22nd, 2012

Gov. Rick Scott and Attorney General Pam Bondi have appointed a special prosecutor to take over the investigation of the shooting of Trayvon Martin, responding to increased pressure from national civil rights leaders outraged over the killing of the unarmed black 17-year-old by a neighborhood watch volunteer whom local authorities have not charged with any crime..................................................


http://www.postonpolitics.com/2012/03/gov-scott-appoints-special-prosecutor-in-trayvon-martin-case/



They have taken this case out of the hands of two important people now, the chief of police and the SA.

In my opinion there is something very shocking in this case we have not heard yet and I think this child was shot in the back.

I would almost bet my drool cup on it!

You might be right or they fear lose of revenue because if riots break out and anyone is hurt who would go to FL.

I am very glad this is happening because I want the truth to come out,hopefully that will happen. I also hope the citizen go up against this law IMO it is not in anyone who lives in Florida's best interestI also would question why it seems all to easy to be able to carry a concealed weapon.

 

[LambChop]

IMO, if you feel the need to use a hand gun, you feel the need to use deadly force. Not using deadly force, especially if you are in fear for your life, could possibly lead to your death. I can not imagine when in fear for their life, anyone shooting someone merely to wound. You don't see LE officers, who are very well trained to shoot, not using deadly force when their life is threatened. Why woulkd you expect Zimmerman to do so?

The big difference is LE often do not have a choice. GZ did. He could have chosen to listen to what he had been told by LE and stand down, he ignored them and this is where he is today. He has a majority of the population against him and they want him brought up on charges. If he can prove he is innocent he'll walk. What is he afraid of if he is innocent?

Being married to a police officer the last thing he ever wanted to do was to shoot someone. He said the day I have to shoot someone is the day I retire my badge. You cannot even compare a police officer having to fire his gun to what GZ did. An officer would have had better sense. jmo

 

[rotterdam]

I don't either. But something did happen and GZ is not being 100% honest about what happened. It's possible when GZ asked TM what he was doing there, TM started to walk away and GZ grabbed his arm and that started it. If that were the case GZ never had the authority to touch TM, ever. I find it hard to believe when police having found ice tea and the candy after he was shot in his hoody pocket, that TM would have been in any type of wrestling match where GZ felt his life was in danger. Could TM still have those items in a pocket that is open on both ends if there was an actual wrestling match. The candy at least would have come out, yet they were still in the pocket of TM's shirt. It sounds more like TM struggled to get away and tried to hit at GZ to release him and GZ shot him. TM knew he had no weapon himself, GZ knew he did and TM ends up dead. So what deadly force did TM use that GZ felt his life was in danger? It wasn't the ice tea, or the skittles and all that is left is the cell phone. None of those things are deadly weapons. jmo

I'll say GZ just executed him after carefully aiming at his heart because Tray popped him one on the nose since Tray was scared to death of that crazy nut.

 

[Krisy]

In my opinion this is not an accurate description of the issue. The issue is not that Trayvon could never be aggressive - the issue is that someone followed Trayvon, scared him, confronted him and then shot him.

According to Florida's Stand Your Ground Statute - Trayvon had very right to stand his ground for being where he was lawfully allowed to be, without interference from a neighborhood watch person, that was told to stop following Trayvon and that UNITS were on the way. GZ had NO authority to confront Trayvon in ANY manner. That is the issue. If GZ would have stayed in his truck and waited for the POLICE that were ON THEIR WAY - this would not have happened. That is the bottom line. When GZ stepped out of his truck, HE esculated this situation.

All my opinion,

Salem

:rocker::woohoo:
Exactly! Thank you, very well written!

 

[Nat]

What in the world is going on here? Websleuths is a victim friendly forum and does not tolerate bashing of the victim. Trayvon Martin is the victim whether anyone likes it or not and as such, according to the TOS on this board, he is not to be bashed or blamed. Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old child, is dead because of George Zimmerman, that is an undisputed fact.

I don't even know. This young man --armed with only Skittles and iced tea-- was chased and then gunned down by an unmarked stranger who started the altercation. He should not have been punished with a death sentence for wearing a hoodie and ducking under a porch to take cover from the rain.

 

[ScubaTwinn]

"The FBI this week began its own investigation of the case. The Washington Post reported that the inquiry is a top priority for the agency, and one focus is whether Zimmerman muttered a racial slur seconds before shooting Trayvon as some have alleged."

Based on this, I believe that voice analysis will be done.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...22_1_special-prosecutor-task-force-grand-jury

 

[LambChop]

You might be right or they fear lose of revenue because if riots break out and anyone is hurt who would go to FL.

I am very glad this is happening because I want the truth to come out,hopefully that will happen. I also hope the citizen go up against this law IMO it is not in anyone who lives in Florida's best interestI also would question why it seems all to easy to be able to carry a concealed weapon.

I hope so, too. It scares me to think that if I were visiting in Florida that someone could come up and grab me and if I resisted they could shoot me and say it was self defense. I have visions of Ruth Buzzy and her handbag. jmo

 

[Salem]

Good Evening Everybody,

It may be time for some members to take a break and go eat some dinner or something. Things are getting pretty hot in here.

Here are some of the BASIC rules:

Treat each other respectfully

Don't accuse each other of being racist

DO NOT BLAME THE VICTIM

Do not state things as fact without a link

Do not talk about pictures without a link

If you are becoming too emotional, step away from the computer

If you disagree with someone and can't do it respectfully, scroll past their post - DON'T respond. You will be held accountable for your responses.

If a post offends you, use the little red triangle in the upper right corner and alert it - then move past it. Do NOT alert and respond to the poster.


If you have questions or concerns, PM a mod. Every mod here has some knowledge of this case and anyone of them will be able to help you out.

You can find the rest of the rules and tips for dealing with your fellow posters right here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159"]The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Thanks,

Salem

 

[HiHater]

The phone lock:


On iPhone, you do not have to enter your passcode to answer calls or make emergency calls. You must enter your passcode to make normal calls.

http://helpdesk.illinoisstate.edu/kb/1424/Setting_a_passcode_lock_on_iPhone_iPod_touch_and_iPad/

 

[T4Tide]

What in the world is going on here? Websleuths is a victim friendly forum and does not tolerate bashing of the victim. Trayvon Martin is the victim whether anyone likes it or not and as such, according to the TOS on this board, he is not to be bashed or blamed. Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old child, is dead because of George Zimmerman, that is an undisputed fact.

I also thought that we didn't convict people who LE have not charged or publicly declared as a POI.

There are many people on this thread who seem to think they know all the answers. There are many scenarios and things that could have happened. I do not think Trayvon did anything wrong. However, I was not there, nor do I know all the facts. Without the same facts, I cannot be SURE that GZ's intent was murder, although I do think he should have minded his own business.

Say there was a grumpy old man who lived in a neighborhood, and he was constantly calling LE and complaining about children on his lawn. He yelled at kids to stay off his lawn and threatened to "get them" if they came on his lawn again. It was widely known that this grumpy old man hated children. But if a child ends up hurt on this man's property, we cannot just peg it on the old man because he hates kids. Hating someone is not a crime. It ain't nice, but it's legal. Even if GZ did hate black people, that is his right. It does not automatically convict him of murder. Do I think he should have minded his own business? Well, yes. Do I think he should have let LE do their job? Yep. Do I think GZ singled Trayvon because he was black? I do not know, because if he had have been white and been killed, this story would have never made it past local news. There would be no million "white people clothes" march. (I know white people wear hoodies... I am just saying) Some of you will say that if he had been white, he would be alive... but we cannot prove that anymore than we can prove he is dead because he is black. Is it possible that GZ hated blacks and he in cold blood killed Trayvon simply because he was black? Yes. It is very possible. Can it be PROVEN with the facts we have been presented so far? Nope.


What bothers me about this story is that Trayvon's death is only sensationalized because he is black and GZ is.... well, whatever nationality he is. If both had been white, we would not have heard. If both had been black, same thing. If GZ had been black, and Trayvon white, it would have been small town news as well. If they both had been Hispanic, we would have wanted to know if they were "legal" when they died/shot someone.

Understand, I am not defending GZ. I do feel like his actions led to unfortunate events, and I would have acted much differently. I do not know what the law is that he should be charge with. All I am sure of is that there is no one who can definitely say that GZ murdered Trayvon intentionally because he was black unless he confesses to it. The rest is circumstantial.

The color of someone's skin will always matter negatively if we continue make it matter positively. A nation cannot be color blind on occasion and see in black and white for others. We are continuing this vicious cycle ourselves.

 

[HiHater]

Per Benjamin Crump on MSNBC: on the original police report, Trayvon Martin was listed as the subject and not the victim...

:waitasec:

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I KNOW he was not humble and friendly because his girlfriend has said he was the first to engage in a verbal discussion, and it wasn't friendly.

I believe her, with what she said happened. He shouted why are you following me, and GZ answered what are you doing here.

These threads are moving quickly so I apologize if this has been asked, or if I missed something, but how friendly do you think a person should be to some unknown, much bigger person following him or her for no apparent reason?

I have been in a similar situation and I turned around and shouted "What?!" in an attempt to show the follower that I would not submit easily to whatever he might have in mind in accosting me.

Even theorizing what might have happened had TM been humble and friendly in a situation in which no reasonable person would have been humble and friendly constitutes blaming the victim, IMO, MOO and so on.

 

[T4Tide]

Sorry, Salem... I was posting at the same time and not in total disregard to your warning.

 

[gitana1]

I'm aware of those tests, I don't think they reflect society as a whole.

No, but they indicate that the negative way blacks are perceived in this country is pervasive. It's not everyone but it's a majority.

IMO there are just as many people using reverse racism to assume because Trayvon was black, he couldn't have been agressive, and did absolutely nothing to instigate/escalate the encounter.

Wrong. We are assuming Trayvon could not have been the aggressor or aggressive because of the following:

1. Trayvon has no history of criminal activity.
2. Trayvon has no history of aggressive behavior according to any who know him.
3. Trayvon is reported to have been a gentle, soft spoken kid.
4. Trayvon reported he was scared because a strange man was following him.
5. A strange man was following Trayvon, in a car, and then on foot, at night.
6. Trayvon was trying to get away according to both Zimmerman and Tray's girlfriend.
7. Trayvon's killer outweighed him by almost double.
8. Trayvon's killer continued following him even after being told to not do that, and after muttering, "The a$$h*les always get away".
9. Trayvon's killer has a criminal record involving violence. He was charged with assault on an officer and only had the charges dismissed once he underwent a diversion program.
10. Trayvon's killer's ex girlfriend tried to get a restraining order against him citing numerous acts of violence against her on multiple occasions.
11. Some of Zimmerman's neighbors complained about Zimmerman's aggressive tactics:

A volunteer community watch captain who shot an unarmed Florida teenager to death last month had been the subject of complaints by neighbors in his gated community for aggressive tactics, a homeowner said.
Zimmerman, who patrolled the Retreat at Twin Lakes development in his own car, had been called aggressive in earlier complaints to the local police and the homeowner's association, according to a homeowner who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/12/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin_n_1340358.html
10. Trayvon's girlfriend heard Zimmerman confront him, heard Trayvon ask why he was following him and then heard the sound of the earbud clatter and then go silent, indicating something jarred that earbud from Trayvon's head.
11. Trayvon's mother identified her own son's voice on the 911 calls crying for help.
12. Zimmerman's friend, in an effort to defend him, stated that Zimmerman was fed up.

Logic indicates that, when taking all of the above into consideration, it was not Trayvon who was the aggressor here. Skin color has nothing to do with it. Black people are no more likely to be aggressive or peaceful than anyone else.

 

[Talina]

I see quite a few posts with people saying following someone is not aggession, is legal, is not threatening, etc. and variations amounting to the same type of statement or comment.

I don't know about the others here but I will say for myself that if someone were following me, I would definitely be spooked, scared and nervous. If they approached me and asked me what I was doing around there and I knew that I had done absolutely nothing wrong or illegal, I'd still be nervous and scared.

I would also want to call the police and make a police report about someone following me and scaring me, making me feel threatened.

What Zimmerman did was wrong on so many levels and that I can not at all see or understand why anyone would think that what he did was okay in following and approaching Tray. He is who caused this entire situation.

If following someone is legal and nothing wrong with it, then let's say that Tray would have had the frame of mind to call 911 and report a strange man following him and that it was making him scared. I venture to say that 911 would have dispatched a LE to respond to that suspicious person following Tray. If it was perfectly legal and nothing wrong with it, LE would not be dispatched if anyone called and said they had someone that did not know following them around.

IMO

 

[Talina]

So per JVM his father is a magistrates Supreme Court Judge in VA. And his mother a clerk of court for 20 years seems connected to me.

I've seen that said and reported a few times now but I've also seen reports that Zimmerman moved to Florida with his parents about 10 years ago. I don't see how his parents could move to Florida and his dad be a magistrate of the Supreme court in VA.

 

[Inabsentia]

I've seen that said and reported a few times now but I've also seen reports that Zimmerman moved to Florida with his parents about 10 years ago. I don't see how his parents could move to Florida and his dad be a magistrate of the Supreme court in VA.

His father is a retired judge.

 

[Sensei]

I am in awe of Trayvon's mother. She hit the nail on the head, she really did.

"This is not a black and white thing, it's a right and wrong thing"

and that is the reason that so many are passionate about this story. While it is true that many African Americans feel routinely singled out for suspicion, the truth is that people are routinely singled out for suspicion for a variety of other reasons as well. I have a friend who has parkinsons disease, which causes him to have jerky and uncontrollable movements, and occasionally facial ticks. Even with medication some days are better than others. We have been follwed in stores, as if the employees think that we are going to shoplift or are on drugs or something (well he is but not the kind that they think)

I have another friend who loves body art and has some beautiful but bizarre tattoos, same result in various places, and at one point we were asked to leave a restaurant because patrons were offended.

This is a right and wrong thing, how far can a private citizen go in attempting to keep his neighborhood safe? What constitues suspicious? How much proof is needed to claim self defense if you have just killed an unarmed person with a firearm? There are a lot of issues that do not touch on black and white, while admittedly some do...in my mind it's still a right and wrong thing for everyone.

 

[Salem]

~Respectfully Snipped~

What bothers me about this story is that Trayvon's death is only sensationalized because he is black and GZ is.... well, whatever nationality he is. If both had been white, we would not have heard. If both had been black, same thing. If GZ had been black, and Trayvon white, it would have been small town news as well. If they both had been Hispanic, we would have wanted to know if they were "legal" when they died/shot someone.

I just want to go on the record here that for me, this is not about race. For me, this about being able to stalk someone, chase them down, against LE advise, and shoot them and then claim self-defense. AND have LE sign you off on that claim of self-defense, when LE is holding the 911 tape that clearly shows who the aggressor was in the whole situation.

I would hope that if this was about people of other colors - the same outrage would be apparent.

Salem