FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[rotterdam]

And it is too bad that the USA still has this affectation. My mother was from Cuba and in that country there is no difference of races; they are all considered people, not black, or white. Am 62 and I never knew there were 'classes' of people, i.e., black/white until I was in my very late teens. I wasn't raised that way, Thank God and my parents for that. BTW, I would be safe to say that I am most likely not 'white', but more of a mix because I am of Cuban origin.

Off topic. I grew up in Western Europe and when I went for my first job in the USA.I had to mark my race. This was many years ago. Even though I had a pretty decent education I never ever heard the word Caucasian as a race. And nothing else applied to me so I wrote in human. Thought that Causasian was somebody from the Caucasus in the then Sovjet Union. Most folks are mixed anyway.
And logically if somebody is fifty/fifty like our President, he can call himself white or black. Some folks who call themselves black are like ,wow I would have never guessed. Such a crazy world we live in.

 

[rotterdam]

Temporary because he fully intends to resume his position when all is said and done.

It was more like a bone to temporary pacify the outrage..

 

[vlpate]

I fail to understand the relevance of Trayvon's age and why it has become such a major issue. He was 17 years old, considered a child in the state of Florida. This has absolutely nothing to do with anyone being tried as an adult even though they are a child. This has everything to do with the fact that Trayvon was 17 years old and was stalked by a man almost twice his age who brutally murdered him because he didn't like the way he looked.

BEM: He's 9 years older, and he was cleared by police, so "brutally murdered" is not a fact, yet. What are you basing "he didn't like the way he looked", on?

George Zimmerman was a time bomb waiting to explode and if it wasn't Trayvon, it could have very well been someone else. What if his victim was a 12 or 13 year old little boy? What if his victim was a 12 or 13 year old little girl? How would you all be reacting over that.

BEM: Based on what?

I am truly trying to figure out what happened myself, but aside from the 17 yr. old was shot and police cleared him, I've not read anything that indicates he was a time bomb waiting to happen or that he was racist. What I heard on the "witness" 911 call was a lot of loud yelling, not just "help" and then the gun shot. The racial slur he is being accused of is used by old people and white supremacists, and I've seen no indication of the latter.

Something just isn't right, can't put my finger on it. He called 911 46 times in the past and this was the first confrontation? Odd, no? Need more info!

 

[vlpate]

But there is no such thing as reverse institutionalized racism; old white men still hold the majority of power in this world. It's kind of like reverse sexism, an individual can hate men but in the grand scheme of things it means nothing because women do not hold the balance of power.

People are not just angry that a young black man was murdered; they are angry that an institution failed to respond in an appropriate manner to the murder of a young man. And it was very likely because of the colour of the victim's skin. It does not help that this PD has a history of treating white perpetrators in a favourable manner.

BEM: You are right, of course. Hate crimes go both ways - many ways, including black on white.

 

[TerriM]

We as a society we need this outrage anytime a child is killed. No matter what type of crime black on black, white on black, brown
on white. I live in Chicago where there were more killings on the street than in Afghanistan this past weekend. I hate to see this turn into a color thing then just a wrong thing.

 

[vlpate]

We as a society we need this outrage anytime a child is killed. No matter what type of crime black on black, white on black, brown
on white. I live in Chicago where there were more killings on the street than in Afghanistan this past weekend. I hate to see this turn into a color thing then just a wrong thing.

I agree. Children are murdered every day. We have communities coming together for everyone's rights but theirs. Would love to see this same kind of movement for ALL of them.

 

[rotterdam]

The only Caucasian I saw booed was the Mayor. There were a few Caucasian pastors that spoke after him that were not booed nor treated disrespectfully.

I think the Mayor would have been booed regardless of race.Great though that such a large demonstration could have been pulled off without violence. Kudos to Fla for that accomplishment.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I haven't commented a lot on the threads about this case, but have read all of the posts.

There is nothing worse than bad LE, IMO. My late husband was retired LE after a 21 year career. He spent many years as the Night Commander of a large department and worked closely with all the rookies. His best advice to these new rookies was to become colorblind when you put your uniform on, to always carry your charge code book, and make comprehensive notes that you will be able to correctly decipher later when you make your report. He said to be an example to your community.

Were he alive today, he would be extremely angry over this so-called investigation. I am also. It is not up to the onscene officers to interpret statutes of law, but to use your charge codes. This was clearly not a self defense shooting, IMO.

GZ was taken to the station, and should have been questioned for as many hours as was necessary, IMO. Why didn't SPD keep GZ at the station until all of the neighbors and witnesses were interviewed? Why did LE not listen to all of the 911 calls before letting GZ leave? Had investigators listened to GZ's 911 call, it would have to have been clear to them that GZ did leave the safety of his vehicle and pursue Trayvon Martin, thereby making him the aggressor. It would have been clear to the investigators that dispatch asked GZ if he was following him (him being Trayvon), and GZ said yes, then the dispatcher told GZ that they did not need him to do that. There you are right there. GZ should have been arrested and charged with negligent homicide at the very least, IMO. Then the charges could/should be upgraded later.

Every LE involved that night should have been placed on administrative leave, IMO, then fired. This was no investigation by the book. The Chief should have been fired rather than let him take a voluntary leave. He is the leader and hoped it would just go away. It won't, and it shouldn't.

Believe me, there are some really good and honorable LE officers out there. The good ones feel just as we do about the bad ones.

There! I feel better having had my say about this. I am outraged as well as heartbroken over all of this. Trayvon's death was willful murder on the part of GZ, IMO.

My thoughts and prayers are with Trayvon's family and friends. I am heartbroken for them and Trayvon's little brother. They will forever be traumatized by this senseless act of viiolence and murder.

*All of the above is JMO.

 

[HiHater]

BEM: He's 9 years older, and he was cleared by police, so "brutally murdered" is not a fact, yet. What are you basing "he didn't like the way he looked", on?



BEM: Based on what?

I am truly trying to figure out what happened myself, but aside from the 17 yr. old was shot and police cleared him, I've not read anything that indicates he was a time bomb waiting to happen or that he was racist. What I heard on the "witness" 911 call was a lot of loud yelling, not just "help" and then the gun shot. The racial slur he is being accused of is used by old people and white supremacists, and I've seen no indication of the latter.

Something just isn't right, can't put my finger on it. He called 911 46 times in the past and this was the first confrontation? Odd, no? Need more info!

GZ was a ticking time bomb according to a neighbor who is "DEFENDING" him...

“I think he had fed-up issues. He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore.”

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...r-comes-to-defense-of-trayvon-martins-shooter

GZ didn't like the way Trayvon looked. Before he even spoke to him, he described him as suspicious, called him an as*hole, and possibly a racial slur.

Only old people and white supremacists use the word c*on? I personally wouldn't know...

 

[rotterdam]

It is extremely odd and extremely troubling IMO.

Looks to me they already had decided very early on in this judicial travesty not to charge GZ with anything. Hence the narcotics detective.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Does anyone know whether or not the appointing of the special prosecutor has any effect on the grand jury? Will there still be one, or can this special prosecutor bring charges on her own?

I had asked on an earlier thread if the prosecutor would be from the 18th? District. Now that I see the term special prosecutor being used in MSM, I take it to mean that the prosecutor appointed by the governor is one who is from a different district.

Prosecutors from the 18th? district would have experience with local LE and perhaps have an ongoing professional relationship with them. By appointing a special prosecutor, the governor is attempting to put someone in place to conduct the investigation who has no personal contact with those involved.

I don't know the outcome of this investigation, but it will be untainted by local bias. AFAIK, this will have no effect on the Grand Jury. They will hear the evidence presented to them by someone not personally tied to the case.

 

[rotterdam]

I haven't commented a lot on the threads about this case, but have read all of the posts.

There is nothing worse than bad LE, IMO. My late husband was retired LE after a 21 year career. He spent many years as the Night Commander of a large department and worked closely with all the rookies. His best advice to these new rookies was to become colorblind when you put your uniform on, to always carry your charge code book, and make comprehensive notes that you will be able to correctly decipher later when you make your report. He said to be an example to your community.

Were he alive today, he would be extremely angry over this so-called investigation. I am also. It is not up to the onscene officers to interpret statutes of law, but to use your charge codes. This was clearly not a self defense shooting, IMO.

GZ was taken to the station, and should have been questioned for as many hours as was necessary, IMO. Why didn't SPD keep GZ at the station until all of the neighbors and witnesses were interviewed? Why did LE not listen to all of the 911 calls before letting GZ leave? Had investigators listened to GZ's 911 call, it would have to have been clear to them that GZ did leave the safety of his vehicle and pursue Trayvon Martin, thereby making him the aggressor. It would have been clear to the investigators that dispatch asked GZ if he was following him (him being Trayvon), and GZ said yes, then the dispatcher told GZ that they did not need him to do that. There you are right there. GZ should have been arrested and charged with negligent homicide at the very least, IMO. Then the charges could/should be upgraded later.

Every LE involved that night should have been placed on administrative leave, IMO, then fired. This was no investigation by the book. The Chief should have been fired rather than let him take a voluntary leave. He is the leader and hoped it would just go away. It won't, and it shouldn't.

Believe me, there are some really good and honorable LE officers out there. The good ones feel just as we do about the bad ones.

There! I feel better having had my say about this. I am outraged as well as heartbroken over all of this. Trayvon's death was willful murder on the part of GZ, IMO.

My thoughts and prayers are with Trayvon's family and friends. I am heartbroken for them and Trayvon's little brother. They will forever be traumatized by this senseless act of viiolence and murder.

*All of the above is JMO.

The gist of whole affair is not necessarily a race thing.
A self appointed private citizen patrols a gated community.
He sees somebody that looks suspicious in his mind, which could be for a myriad of reasons. Funny hair, hoodie, pants low, dressed in black whatever all in the eye of the beholder.
Instead of yelling from his unmarked car, identify himself and asking the guy if he lives there or is a guest of a resident, he sneaks out of his car and start following this person.

Anybody being followed on a dark rainy night, would start worrying about such a nut and wonder if he is up to no good, fearing for their life. Especially any young teenager walking alone..

Apparently a fight ensued since his scared victim defends himself against the aggressor. And he shoots his victim dead. A crime just occurred. So far nothing that unusual.
The unusual part starts when LE gets involved and gives the shooter carte blanche for his crime with basically no investigation. And takes his explanation as gospel.
That is what the outrage is about. No due process for the victim. Basically handled like roadkill. It could happen to you or me on a dark street in the USA. Sounds like Syria to me..

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Didn't GZ say 'he's on drugs or something' to 911? Or was it just 'somethings wrong with him'? (I need to go back and listen and need more coffee

Wondering if this is why a narcotics officer was dispatched to the scene.

Thanks,

wm

 

[daisy7]

Based on what's publicly known about the case, Michael Siegel, a former federal prosecutor who now directs the Criminal Justice Center and Clinics at the University of Florida law school, said it appears Sanford police were too quick to decide whether Zimmerman should be charged. If the evidence is murky, he said the usual practice is to make the arrest and let the court system sort it out.

(snip)

http://www.pnj.com/article/20120323...in-s-death?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

 

[ScubaTwinn]

What bothers me about this story is that Trayvon's death is only sensationalized because he is black and GZ is.... well, whatever nationality he is. If both had been white, we would not have heard. If both had been black, same thing. If GZ had been black, and Trayvon white, it would have been small town news as well. If they both had been Hispanic, we would have wanted to know if they were "legal" when they died/shot someone.
QUOTE]

Respectfully snipped for space.

What bothers me is how the PD treated this case. I believe if they both had been white, his parents would have still had to made a stink to get answers to their questions.

 

[BritsKate]

Apologies if these have been posted but I thought I'd let you know this crime is making international headlines as well:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...mar/22/trayvon-martin-shot-heard-around-world
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journali...-killing-Sanford-police-chief-steps-down.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17479308

Incidentally I don't believe race is the sole reason why so many are outraged (the UK has serious issues in racial discrimination but most of the comments are in support of Trayvon) but rather the fact that a child is the victim. MOO

 

[Rob774]

Maybe he was struggling for it, couldn't get to it, wanted to subdue the person without using it and was asking for help...

"Someone help me get this gun out, so i can shoot this kid that i went out of my way to confront!"

Like that???

 

[annalia]

BEM: You are right, of course. Hate crimes go both ways - many ways, including black on white.

But that isn't the case here.

 

[annalia]

Is that the same friend that referred to 'the perfect storm'?

Yes, the same one who thinks he's defending GZ but kept saying that GZ was fed up, that black kids had committed burglaries in the past.

If there's a trial, the defense would be crazy to call this guy as he pretty much said that GZ was intentionally gunning for Tray because he was fed up with black kids.

He also kept saying that GZ called him at work and said there was a black kid checking out his house, so the neighbor credits GZ for saving his home. Problem is, we see how GZ reacted here so there's no way that this neighbor knows if this other black kid who GZ accused of checking out his house was just another Trayvon walking down the street, just looking about.

There's no way that what GZ uttered under his breath was the word cold. this neighbor should take a break because he just makes it worse.


JMHO

 

[Sensei]

respectfully snipped

Why was his girlfriend telling him to run and why did he try to lose Zimmerman? Zimmerman may well have been wrong, but it doesn't factually seem to be cold blooded murder, IMO.

Perhaps that is a matter of perspective, he was alone, in a strange neighborhood and he was followed, first by this guy in a vehicle, and then by a stranger who was older and larger than he was. A person who did not identify himself as neighborhood watch, who had no insignia or badge or vest or marking on his car that would indicate or alert anyone to the fact that he was neighborhood watch at all. Trayvon thought GZ was suspicious, and apparently his girlfriend did too, and in the face of what she percieved as a threat to Trayvon she told him to run. It's what I would have done, or what I would have told my kids in those circumstances. I would not have told them to stand still and let the stranger catch you so that you might be in the position of trying to talk your way out of being harmed by a serial killer, a white supremecist, or a pervert wanting to molest you. We routinely tell our children to stay away from suspcious persons and not get close to their cars and not to get close enough to be harmed by them, I do not find that at all unusual

I repectfully beg to differ in that it does factually appear to be exactly cold blooded murder when you are followed in a vehicle, followed on foot, and in spite of attempts to evade the person you are caught or corner by someone who does not appear to be the first bit friendly, an unarmed person is shot dead within a matter of less than 4 minutes. IMO JMHO and stuff