FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #3

[daisy7]

He did not say the law that he signed was not applicable in his state, he said, based on the information given him:

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/poli...ned-shouldnt-apply-in-trayvon-martin-case.ece
"ARLINGTON -- Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush said Friday that the “stand your ground” self-defense law he signed while in office should not apply to the case of a teenager who was shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer in his home state.
“This law does not apply to this particular circumstance,” Bush said after an education panel discussion at the University of Texas at Arlington. “Stand your ground means stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.”
He was referring to reports that the 17-year-old, Trayvon Martin, was pursued by the volunteer and fatally shot in a scuffle."

Do you believe Jeb was misinformed before he made his statement?

We now have our former Governor as well as both authors of the SYG law stating it doesn't apply to this case and was not the intent of the law. I'm really puzzled why some people keep using the SYG law as an excuse for Zimmerman's actions that night.

 

[Velouria]

Why is it that people don't see the double standard here? Why is it so easily understood that it is not acceptable to assume that a young black male is suspicious, a , or up to no good when there is absolutely no proof of that.... and yet it is acceptable to assume that every white person who wrongs a black person is a racist, even when there is absolutely no proof of that?


Al Sharpton is an interventionist?

His job is just as made up and unimportant as GZ's neighborhood watchman position. If they'd both just mind their own business, we'd all be posting in someone else's thread.

I don't claim to be a big fan of Rev. Al, however to say that there is no evidence of racism in this case is opinion, not a fact. And I have not heard or read anywhere, as some posters are claiming, that the family called Sharpton into the situation.

IMO, Zimmerman did say "f-ing c***s" on that 911 tape, and I only hope a jury is allowed to determine whether in fact he is guilty of a crime.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Excuse me - I will only say this once - and I am of a mixed family. Not interested in a fight but I have to say it….
YES MLK did a huge job to help people come together and stop the ugly divide.
And many great things happened because of him, and it is true that fight is still going on. BOTH WAYS…

There are many prejudice crimes against white people too, many racial divides there too.
WHY do black people need an Al Shrpton to create a riot?
White people do not have an Al Sharpton to create a riot.
What is all that Race Card stuff? WHY? What is it good for?

I want TY to have justice. But this is not exactly how….

Yeah, Sharpton's own words reveal him as quite the riot creator:

“Some people said to me in the media — ‘Let me get this straight,’ they said. ‘Reverend, it seems like there’s a lot of people who are angry — are you afraid of violence?’” Sharpton preached to the central Floridian crowd. “I said, ‘No. I’m afraid of the violence you already had.’”

“Violence is killing Tray Martin,” Sharpton continued. “Don’t act like we are the ones [who are] violent. We didn’t shoot nobody.”

Despite his harsh rhetoric, Sharpton warned the thousands in attendance to avoid resorting to violence at all costs as the Martin case progresses. “I want our people to understand that how you behave is going to be a reflection on this case,” Sharpton instructed the crowd. “[No matter] how angry we get, don’t let them make you act in a way that they will say, ‘see, that’s what to think with Trayvon.’”

“We are going to act intelligent,” Sharpton said. “We going to act dignified. And, we’re going to be determined. We may be angry, but we’re not mad dogs. We’re too smart to fall for [that].”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/22/s...-warns-against-use-of-violence/#ixzz1pzcnggTb

 

[vlpate]

<snipped respectfully>

It seems pretty clear to me and most other people I have encountered that Zimmermans conclusion that Treyvon was "up to no good" and dangerous was based in large part on his being a young black male. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but the facts are the facts and I haven't seen any indications he ever warned his neighbors about young blond guys or anything. As I white person I don't like to be accused of racism or to have the actions of all white people assumed to be based on racism. But when it exists I think it demands recognition.

BEM: Several of the homes in that neighborhood had been burglarized, one woman was IN her home while the guys were in her house, she was in the bedroom listening to them while on the line with 911. This is on the link with the police reports. There were several homes robbed and the eyewitnesses saw young black males. So WHY would he warn about young blonde guys?

...they dashed out to find a boy face down on the ground and a man standing over him, a foot on each side of the body on the ground, with his hands pinning the shooting victim down.

IIRC The 911 caller was looking out her window and saw a man with his hands in the air immediately after it happened. It's recorded.

 

[songline]

Verbatim - Is there another 911 call available of GZ, because there is nothing close to a racial slur that I could hear and I had on noise reduction headphones when I transcribed it. More, GZ never mentioned TM being on the phone.


911 call 4:11
GZ: Hey, we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there's this real suspicious guy retreat view circle, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something -- he's just walking around, looking about..
Dispatcher: ... and this guy's white, black, or hispanic?
GZ: He looks black..
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
GZ: Yeah, a dark hoodie, like a gray hoodie and either jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. (unintelligible)..he's just staring
Dispatcher: Oh, he's just walking around the area?
GZ: Looking at all the houses
Dispathcher: oh ok
GZ: He's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: Ok you said it is 1111 (Patridge?) or 111?
GZ: That's the club house
Dispatcher: He's near the club house right now?
GZ: Yeah, now he's coming towards me
Dispatcher: Ok
GZ: He's got his hand in his waistband. Yeah, he's a black male
Dispatcher: Ok, how old would you say he is
GZ: He's got a button on his shirt
He's late teens
Dispatcher: Late teens, ok
GZ: Something's wrong with him. Yep, he's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything, ok
GZ: Just get an officer over here
Dispatcher: We've got them on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.
GZ: Ok
Pause
GZ: These a-holes, they always get away. Yep, when you come to the club house you come straight in and make a left ... actually, you would go past the club house.
Dispatcher: Oh, you say it's on the left hand side from the club house?
GZ: No, you go in, straight through the entrance and then you make a left, ummm, yeah you go straight in, don't turn and make a left. Ship, he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running, which way is he running?
GZ: Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Ok, which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
GZ: The back entrance.
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
GZ: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir, what is your name?
GZ: George, he ran...
Dispatcher: Alright George, what's your last name?
GZ: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: What's the phone number you're calling from?
GZ: Gives number
Dispatcher: Alright George, we do have them on the way, did you want to meet with the officers when they get out there?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: Alright, where you gonna meet with them at?
GZ: Umm, if they come in through the, uh, street past the club house, straight past the club house, and then they go past the mailboxes, they'll see my truck
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
GZ: Umm, I don't know, it's a cut-through so I don't know the address.
Dispatcher: Do you live in the area?
GZ: Yeah
Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?
GZ: It's a home (gives incomplete address) - ah crap, I don't want to get the he** out, I don't know where this kid is
Dispatcher: Ok, do you just want to meet with them right near the mailboxes?
GZ: Yeah, that's fine.
Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you out there, ok?
GZ: Could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?
Dispatcher: Ok, yeah, that's no problem
GZ: Do you need my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah, I've got it (repeats number)
GZ: Yeah, you got it
Dipatcher: Ok, no problem, I'll let 'em know to call you when they are there, yeah?
GZ: Thanks
Dispatcher: You're welcome

For forty five seconds, and no way of knowing how long before the witness called, you can hear yelling in the background of the witness 911 call here: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/911/call3.wav

WOW! thank you for all that.
Changes my prospective.
IMPORTANT INFORMATION WHEN POSTING ON THIS CASE.

 

[HMSHood]

Yeah, Sharpton's own words reveal him as quite the riot creator:

“Some people said to me in the media — ‘Let me get this straight,’ they said. ‘Reverend, it seems like there’s a lot of people who are angry — are you afraid of violence?’” Sharpton preached to the central Floridian crowd. “I said, ‘No. I’m afraid of the violence you already had.’”

“Violence is killing Tray Martin,” Sharpton continued. “Don’t act like we are the ones [who are] violent. We didn’t shoot nobody.”

Despite his harsh rhetoric, Sharpton warned the thousands in attendance to avoid resorting to violence at all costs as the Martin case progresses. “I want our people to understand that how you behave is going to be a reflection on this case,” Sharpton instructed the crowd. “[No matter] how angry we get, don’t let them make you act in a way that they will say, ‘see, that’s what to think with Trayvon.’”

“We are going to act intelligent,” Sharpton said. “We going to act dignified. And, we’re going to be determined. We may be angry, but we’re not mad dogs. We’re too smart to fall for [that].”

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/22/s...-warns-against-use-of-violence/#ixzz1pzcnggTb

Isn't he contradicting himself.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Why is it that people don't see the double standard here? Why is it so easily understood that it is not acceptable to assume that a young black male is suspicious, a , or up to no good when there is absolutely no proof of that.... and yet it is acceptable to assume that every white person who wrongs a black person is a racist, even when there is absolutely no proof of that?


Al Sharpton is an interventionist?

His job is just as made up and unimportant as GZ's neighborhood watchman position. If they'd both just mind their own business, we'd all be posting in someone else's thread.

Not in my case. I did not start posting on this thread till I heard the uncut version of the stalker/voyeur pursing this kid. I heard his words slurring and I heard the racial comment. I am not convinced though he is a racist from that comment alone.

Then I read the pretend police report. Then I listened to all the other calls.

In my book zimmerman committed murder and the police dept and SA tried to cover it up.

 

[vlpate]

I don't claim to be a big fan of Rev. Al, however to say that there is no evidence of racism in this case is opinion, not a fact. And I have not heard or read anywhere, as some posters are claiming, that the family called Sharpton into the situation.

IMO, Zimmerman did say "f-ing c***s" on that 911 tape, and I only hope a jury is allowed to determine whether in fact he is guilty of a crime.

Would you please tell me at what point in the tape so I can listen again? TIA

 

[Sensei]

But GZ could have grabbed his arm. Something happened because his phone went suddenly dead while he was talking. If GZ knocked TM's phone out of his hand I could see TM coming back at the man in anger. Once GZ touched TM it's assault and TM was a minor and now TM had the right to protect himself. If GZ got close enough to get into a fight, he was too close.
And with 4 months of police training GZ knew better. jmo

I bolded the statement that I wanted to say is exactly apropo....I have said all along that what makes sense to me is that GZ approaches TM, who is still on the phone, and the girlfriend hears him ask "Why are you following me"
at that point she hears, "What are you doing around here" and I think the scene evolved either TM turned to just go and ignore GZ, who grabbed his arm so that he could not get away and TM took a swing at him, or tried to get free in some manner, or maybe GZ simply got in his grill, real close in his face and TM shoved him....and it was on...either way GZ has no stand your ground protection, he was the aggressor IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[rotterdam]

Hispanics can be from all races. They are not all Caucasian. Zimmerman is not a Hispanic Caucasian in appearance? I think he appears to be more Native American/Indian Hispanic. I have Hispanic Caucasian friends and even they do not want to be called Caucasian. I have many Black Hispanic friends and they do not want to be called Black. They call themselves Hispanic/Latino.

As a foreign born I get so confused with all those ethnic/race labels.
To me GZ looks white with a Mediterranean/South American appearance, with an Anglo first name and a German surname. In other words Heinz 57 variety like most of us.
Hispanic to me means roots from Hispania/Spain and Latino means that your native language is one of the Romance languages like Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese etc. Last not least, why does the media always emphasize when a person looks/is black and/or South American but never when white or print that silly Caucasian label. Does not that foster racial hate in some way?
American(if citizen) or country if citizen of other country would suffice IMO.

This whole tragedy however, evolves about a situation where a law abiding individual , in this case an unarmed HS kid, can be stalked and murdered by a private individual with no legal law enforcement credentials under very controversial circumstances.
If there are laws that allow for such atrocities then change the laws.
And I still say that the killing of this teenager was handled by SPD like an average roadkill of an animal. Body collected, minimal investigation, file closed.
Just despicable and inhumane/unethical similar to a country with many human rights violations.
And if the parents would not have been so tenacious about the circumstances involving the death of their son, we would have never known about it. How many more are out there?
Think about it. Race played no part in it, human rights did, race is just secondary.

 

[Reality Orlando]

That one shows why it's important to wear hearing and eye protection when shooting a gun. There was some kind of malfunction which allowed gases and particles to fly into that lads face.

I shoot off about 200-400 rounds a month and I've never had a backfire, nor seen anyone else have one at any of the ranges I've been to and I've been shooting guns since I was about 3. My private instructor says there is no such thing as a gun backfiring, but they can misfire and that's usually caused by improper ammo, some of the older, cheaply made guns or guns that aren't cleaned/maintained.

 

[flourish]

People like Al Sharpton are really disgusting. The race card just creates further divisions.

Okay, I asked this upthread, but no one answered me. Why all the complaining about Al Sharpton? What is the problem with him?

 

[Adrienne37]

As a foreign born I get so confused with all those ethnic/race labels.
To me GZ looks white with a Mediterranean/South American appearance, with an Anglo first name and a German surname. In other words Heinz 57 variety like most of us.
Hispanic to me means roots from Hispania/Spain and Latino means that your native language is one of the Romance languages like Spanish, Italian, French, Portuguese etc. Last not least, why does the media always emphasize when a person looks/is black and/or South American but never when white or print that silly Caucasian label. Does not that foster racial hate in some way?
American(if citizen) or country if citizen of other country would suffice IMO.

This whole tragedy however, evolves about a situation where a law abiding individual , in this case an unarmed HS kid, can be stalked and murdered by a private individual with no legal law enforcement credentials under very controversial circumstances.
If there are laws that allow for such atrocities then change the laws.
And I still say that the killing of this teenager was handled by SPD like an average roadkill of an animal. Body collected, minimal investigation, file closed.
Just despicable and inhumane/unethical similar to a country with many human rights violations.
And if the parents would not have been so tenacious about the circumstances involving the death of their son, we would have never known about it. How many more are out there?
Think about it. Race played no part in it, human rights did, race is just secondary.

Thank you for your post and this is exactly what Trayvon's mother has stated, this isn't about race - this is about right and wrong.

 

[Boytwnmom]

any and everything GZ says and said. We already know he has terrible judgment and observational skills after telling 911 that Trayvon was a dangerous, suspicious criminal up to no good so his observations are suspect and subject to being dismissed as not credible or accurate.

Similarly he has clearly lied about how he got out of the car to see what the street sign said. Not even a slightly credible lie. You can read a street sign from the car, he admitted to 911 that he was following Trayvon and thus admitted he was not out of the car to check the sign. He's a bad lair and a bad judge of reality so if I were a juror I would quickly determine his lack of credibility meant his testimony would be disregarded in it's entirety. He's also dishonest with the 911 officer in that instead of letting him know he was still pursuing Trayvon he just says to have the officer how gets there call him to see where to meet him as he clearly doesn't know where he'll be since he's stalking the kid.I know he thought if he killed the kid only his story would be needed to establish his defense but his story doe snot have to be believed and I suspect, that once GZ is fully known nothing he said will be deemed credible except by those who have already determined his actions we fine with them.

But are there any witness's that saw GZ go after Trayvon? Trayvon is dead so he can't testify. That leaves GZ's account. Which apparently has him losing sight of Trayvon then heading back to his truck with Trayvon attacking him.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/86330859/Zimmerman-Martin-Shooting

 

[annalia]

I don't claim to be a big fan of Rev. Al, however to say that there is no evidence of racism in this case is opinion, not a fact. And I have not heard or read anywhere, as some posters are claiming, that the family called Sharpton into the situation.

IMO, Zimmerman did say "f-ing c***s" on that 911 tape, and I only hope a jury is allowed to determine whether in fact he is guilty of a crime.

I haven't heard that either, I'm not sure where it's coming from that Sharpton is running the show. :waitasec:
And there certainly have not been any riots. It's been very peaceful.

The family has attorneys, they've been their spokespeople. The female attorney is on quite a bit and I have to say I am very impressed with her.

The same neighbor said that GZ said effin cold, that's just laughable on every level. No way did he say cold. I can't quite figure out if it was the slur or punks, but there is definitely an s at the end. Maybe the neighbor with say next that GZ said effin colds. But with the FBI involved, they will be able to enhance it, and hopefully determine what was said.

JMHO

 

[belle3]

I bolded the statement that I wanted to say is exactly apropo....I have said all along that what makes sense to me is that GZ approaches TM, who is still on the phone, and the girlfriend hears him ask "Why are you following me"
at that point she hears, "What are you doing around here" and I think the scene evolved either TM turned to just go and ignore GZ, who grabbed his arm so that he could not get away and TM took a swing at him, or tried to get free in some manner, or maybe GZ simply got in his grill, real close in his face and TM shoved him....and it was on...either way GZ has no stand your ground protection, he was the aggressor IMO JMHO and stuff.

Which is why i believe that trayvon was killed while defending himself from a man with a gun. Its what makes the most sense. But thats what im getting from what has been presented so far. Like i said before, i belive gz is guilty of manslaughter.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

BEM: Several of the homes in that neighborhood had been burglarized, one woman was IN her home while the guys were in her house, she was in the bedroom listening to them while on the line with 911. This is on the link with the police reports. There were several homes robbed and the eyewitnesses saw young black males. So WHY would he warn about young blonde guys?

...they dashed out to find a boy face down on the ground and a man standing over him, a foot on each side of the body on the ground, with his hands pinning the shooting victim down.

IIRC The 911 caller was looking out her window and saw a man with his hands in the air immediately after it happened. It's recorded.

they dashed out to find a boy face down on the ground and a man standing over him, a foot on each side of the body on the ground, with his hands pinning the shooting victim down.

two other witnesses said he was knelt down on Martin with his hands on his back. His knees were on the ground.

 

[flourish]

Obviously WS considers him a child because his case is in the Crimes - Spotlighting Children's thread.

THANK YOU!
I finally realized that after discussing back and forth with people last night about the age of legal and developmental adulthood.

Thought this post deserved bumping. Thanks again, LambChop!

 

[T4Tide]

Not in my case. I did not start posting on this thread till I heard the uncut version of the stalker/voyeur pursing this kid. I heard his words slurring and I heard the racial comment. I am not convinced though he is a racist from that comment alone.

Then I read the pretend police report. Then I listened to all the other calls.

In my book zimmerman committed murder and the police dept and SA tried to cover it up.

I meant if GZ had minded his own business... there wouldn't be a thread about Trayvon.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Okay, I asked this upthread, but no one answered me. Why all the complaining about Al Sharpton? What is the problem with him?

If you google "Tawana Brawley" that's a good start - or wikipedia has a good rundown of his comments on jews, gays, etc which are quite inflammatory.