FL - 17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #5

[HiHater]

If he attacked GZ was he still a victim?

The mods have made it clear that Trayvon is the victim on this forum...

 

[LolaMoon08]

So, the Chief was giving some sort of commentary in regard to the Martin/Zimmerman incident to a media source no doubt. Just cause he doesn't mention what color of underwear Zimmerman was wearing at the time are we to assume he wasn't wearing any? Or that he makes no mention of a conversation taking place between Zimmerman and Martin that it didn't happen... That's a whole lot of assuming.

We've got to remember this is still an active investigation so they have to be cautious of what they reveal.

How in the world would you even get that Zimmerman said anything to Trayvon from "Zimmerman was walking back to his truck, after jotting down a street address for the dispatcher, and Trayvon jumped him from behind?"

So you're saying that it is plausible that what Bill Lee meant to say was:

First Zimmerman politely caught up to Trayvon and in an non-threatening manner immediately says to Trayvon: "Hi. I'm the neighborhood watch. I just would like to know if I could help you in any way?" When Tray askes Zimmerman "Why are you following me?" Zimmerman just turns around and begins walking back to his truck, jotting down the street address to give to dispatch and Tray just came up behind him and attacked him?

 

[Belinda]

Hi Belinda, do you have a link for where you read that? I've read here chest, and now back. I've yet to see anything official though. TIA

There is no link. I thought I made it clear that I was speculating based on the position of his body. That was totally IMO. We need to see the autopsy.

 

[HiHater]

When GZ responded "Okay" to the 911 dispatcher, there was no reason for that dispatcher to believe that GZ was not following his instructions, thus needing to be "more explicit."

Exactly. I find it weird that posters here say the dispatch needed to be more explicit. The person who was given the "advise" (advice) heeded it--or at least pretended to. Zimmerman knew exactly what he was being told, and said "Okay." If Zimmerman was unclear, that would have been the time for him to get clarification.

 

[songline]

They have no authority. They have a set of guidelines to follow to report a crime or suspicious behavior same as any private citizen. Difference is a NWP knows they are only to report and not to pursue. So I guess GZ thought of himself as a private citizen and the guidelines be damned. jmo

He was supposedly off duty (neighborhoods watch) at that time.
But just like police officers when they are off duty
if they "see something they say something".

 

[songline]

Exactly. I find it weird that posters here say the dispatch needed to be more explicit. The person who was given the "advise" (advice) heeded it--or at least pretended to. Zimmerman knew exactly what he was being told, and said "Okay." If Zimmerman was unclear, that would have been the time for him to get clarification.

We do not need you to follow him is not the same as DONT FOLLOW HIM.

 

[m00c0w]

Then the officer who observed Zimmerman's injuries and wet/grassy shirt should have also noted BLOOD.

By what measure?

I'm going to go into a little bit of gore here, so if that bothers you, you should probably discontinue reading.

Are you implying that a gunshot wound from a 9mm round starts gushing blood from the moment of impact? If Martin was shot anywhere but directly in the heart, there is a likely possibility that a pneumothorax occurred and he was bleeding into the space around the lungs. The bleeding would be majorly internal and not even look that bad externally. Martin wearing a hoodie/any other thick clothing could also keep any bleeding/blood splatter from getting on Zimmerman.

The entire premise here is that there is no reason to believe that Martin being on his stomach means anything with respect to when or how he was shot.

JMO (With experience gained from military combat lifesaver courses)

 

[LolaMoon08]

It is very clear to me now exactly how Casey Anthony was aquitted of murdering Caylee.

ETA: :moo::moo:

 

[Horace Finklestein]

There is hardly any evidence of any kind but
the more they want to hang GZ the more I look to see
what else is there to know.
we cannot hang someone without any evidence.

It is sad that a young man is dead.
And we still need information before we say the man is guilty.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[HiHater]

We do no need you to follow him is ot the same as DONT FOLLOW HIM.

Unless you're prepared to say that "we do not need you to follow him" can be translated or understood as "follow him" then this part of the conversation is not necessary. It's unreasonable, and no one, including the police officers in this case have disputed the fact that GZ followed when he should not have.

The closest anyone has come to defending GZ for following is in saying that the dispatch did not give a lawful order, rather it was advice.

I understand that some people will be nitpicky, but come on, a little common sense goes a long way.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf

 

[Ironhorse]

The mods have made it clear that Trayvon is the victim on this forum...

What's that supposed to imply? That its alright to paint another a criminal who's yet to be charged of a crime... That right there is frightening... Please, Please, Please, tell me that's not how things work here, for that's borderline slander. Something I would think we would all wish to avoid...

 

[Horace Finklestein]

The mods have made it clear that Trayvon is the victim on this forum...

I certainly can't disagree with that.

 

[Rougelatete]

The 911 operator is LE and he did NOT tell GZ not to follow TM. You are also unable to provide proof that GZ started the physical altercation. I'd feel exactly the same way if TM was a woman or a white person. I do not think GZ would randomly decide to kill anyone if he wasn't in fear for his life. I'm happy to say race and gender don't factor into my thinking on this issue. Plenty of white kids and girls start fights too.

It's comforting to know that if a 250 lb. man shot an unarmed 140 lb. 17 year-old girl who was walking home from the store, you'd feel that was justified, too.

 

[vlpate]

witness interview

Miami Herald Interviews Trayvon Martin Family - Does NOT Ask About Chicken - YouTube
Trayvon's family interview

I didn't see a witness in the above interview. Was the young man next to TM's mother the witness?

 

[HiHater]

What's that supposed to imply? That its alright to paint another a criminal who's yet to be charged of a crime... That right there is frightening... Please, Please, Please, tell me that's not how things work here, for that's borderline slander. Something I would think we would all wish to avoid...

Perhaps you should direct your concerns to a mod?

Like I said, we have been reminded over and over that Trayvon is a victim and we are not to blame the victim. I would also guess this info is included in the TOS that you agreed to when signing up?

 

[LolaMoon08]

It's comforting to know that if a 250 lb. man shot an unarmed 140 lb. 17 year-old girl who was walking home from the store, you'd feel that was justified, too.

Well, it really would all depend? Did she run track? Play soccer? Basketball? Was she visiting her father after being suspended from school for being late? Was she wearing a hoodie? Did she dare stand under the awning of a clubhouse? What brand were her shoes? Was she right handed or left handed? Was her hair in a pony tail or was it down? What color was it? Pink? Blue? Purple?

 

[m00c0w]

It's comforting to know that if a 250 lb. man shot an unarmed 140 lb. 17 year-old girl who was walking home from the store, you'd feel that was justified, too.

Does this imply that you're comfortable with a clearly biased trial by media? I'm not sure that most people that are seen as defending Zimmerman are actually defending Zimmerman. They're defending the idea of impartiality until conviction by a jury of his peers. The public at large does not have nearly all of the information that is available. To speculate is one thing, but to assume guilt and work from that angle is an entirely different notion.

You'd think we'd have learned after Richard Jewell and the Duke Lacrosse team that this is a bad thing.

 

[songline]

Are you implying that it's unreasonable to believe that a parent going through an extremely emotional event might misconstrue what is said? JMO

I had a talk with some of my lady friends I wanted to know how
they felt.... I asked how would you deal with this if you were the parent?
some said thank God I dont know and wont know it in my life.
and many said if that happend to my kid I would say whatever to
get the guy in jail, there is no way I wouldn't.
ONE SAID: Even if my kid is bad, I would go set it up that they all feel
my pain. I dont care, I would want someone arrested.

then I asked even if it is not fair?
these are the replies I got:
Not fair the kid is dead,
Not fair if I lost a kid
Not fair if ther is no investigation.
Not fair if I dont get satisfaction.

This is from my friends not anyone connected to the case.
I just like to hear how people think.
So is there any justice in that kind of thinking NOP Not IMO.
Not one said they wanted to see a fair trial.

 

[Belinda]

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf

More worthless lip service IMO.