FL 17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #11

[songline]

Lol I swear I'll never complain about my neighbors again. Kids can no longer walk in the rain?
And BTW. People were out. Well at least GZ was.

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When I look out on a rainy day and don’t see a soul,
but one unfamiliar man - I too want to see who is that?

When I lived in a house many years back (in a building now).
If I saw someone out there in a gray day, with nobody around
I have to say I locked every single door and window. I did it instinctively.
I was smart... one of those rainy days we had a rash of burglaries
because they though nobody is out there to see them do anything.

 

[jojomonkey]

And Trayvon never had to assault him, if that is what happened. IMO
If TM threw the first punch, he was the aggressor.

...a punch wouldn't have been thrown had he stayed in his vehicle. IF that is what happened.

 

[LambChop]

Yeah, he was potentially a victim of that already that night when he was jumped from behind and allegedly almost had his own gun used against him.

Exactly a possibility and that is why LE wanted him to stay in his car. Both of them felt a threat, both may have had a reason to feel threatened at the point of contact. Only one person initially was in control, only one person knew about the possibility that had a confrontation occurred he could very well have lost control of his gun. And he still did not listen. jmo

 

[Emeralgem]

Going to a store and then back to a house is considered "wandering around?" Seriously?

Not only that..According to GZ's brother it is all Trayvon's fault for getting caught in the rain and having to take cover...And then to add insult to injury we have the same brother even blaming the neighbors for TM's death...To hear him tell it IF the neighbors had gone outside when GZ cried out for HELP GZ would not have had to shoot TM.....Freeking unbelievable mindset IF you ask me.....
IMHO... In all reality I highly suspect TM was the one who was pleading for his life....GZ needs to be arrested now....JMHO

 

[cityslick]

Regardless of what transpired before the punch was thrown? What if GZ had pulled his gun and pointed it at TM?

BBM

But we don't know that. I'm not sure we'll ever know that because there was only two witnesses and one is dead.

 

[songline]

George Zimmerman was out. Was it raining when Martin went to the store?

Lots of people are in a car going someplace.

 

[Hopeful One]

Still doesn't make it self defense/SYG. The choices were all GZ's when he made the choice to go after him with that loaded weapon. And what he himself said on the 911 call bears out his intent, in my opinion.

And just because he hadn't shot anyone before doesn't mean much, in my opinion. He has gone after people before, has acted aggressively, he chased someone down in his car, there are other examples.

JMHO

Exactly.

It seems to me like GZ was on a mission to rid his neighbood of these "hoodlums". No black kid in a hoodie with Skittles and an iced tea in his pocket should be walking the streets on his way home, looking at the houses he passes.

God forbid.

 

[m00c0w]

<mod snip>

Sure. You can speculate all you want; that doesn't mean it has any credible foundation. To say that one or two witnesses said it was too dark out to make out anything credible does not mean that a witness much closer to the two would have the same opinion. That's just nothing but a faulty premise.

 

[Hopeful One]

When I look out on a rainy day and don’t see a soul,
but one unfamiliar man - I too want to see who is that?

When I lived in a house many years back (in a building now).
If I saw someone out there in a gray day, with nobody around
I have to say I locked every single door and window. I did it instinctively.
I was smart... one of those rainy days we had a rash of burglaries
because they though nobody is out there to see them do anything.

If you see an unfamiliar black teenager in a hoodie walking home, by all means you have the right to lock your doors.

You do not, however, have the right to chase him down with your gun and shoot him.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

And Trayvon never had to assault him, if that is what happened. IMO
If TM threw the first punch, he was the aggressor.

Or was TM just standing his ground?

Knowing what little we do know - it is evident that GZ got out of the car (even if you go with GZ's account of being jumped from behind when RETURNING to his car regardless, GZ got out of the car. GZ took his loaded gun with him. GZ was looking for him (he told dispatch that he didn't know where he (TM) was)

Hinsight is 20/20 and from that I would conclude that GZ was the aggressor - first aggressor.

Think of a bar room fight. Words are exchanged inside the bar. One decides to walk way and goes out the door. The other one follows, all the while screaming and yelling and threatening - even if the first one stops and turns around to say something - who is the actual aggressor now?

IMHO - its the second guy that pursued the first guy out the door. The confrontation was over when one party disengaged and left the building. So, the second guy going out the door after him iniates a "new" confrontation simply by pursuit.

But that's JMHO

 

[LambChop]

When I look out on a rainy day and don’t see a soul,
but one unfamiliar man - I too want to see who is that?

When I lived in a house many years back (in a building now).
If I saw someone out there in a gray day, with nobody around
I have to say I locked every single door and window. I did it instinctively.
I was smart... one of those rainy days we had a rash of burglaries
because they though nobody is out there to see them do anything.

That makes no sense if your car broke down and you had to walk home, or you had no car to begin with and a friend dropped you at a store and you had to walk home. It makes on sense to believe someone is going to break into your home if they are just walking in the rain. It's okay to be aware but people still do walk in the rain when they have to. Seems ironic doesn't it that GZ could have gotten all the info he needed just by asking TM if he wanted a ride home because of the rain. jmo

 

[Adrienne37]

Lol I swear I'll never complain about my neighbors again. Kids can no longer walk in the rain?
And BTW. People were out. Well at least GZ was.

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It seems there is quite a double standard here doesn't it? It's not okay for Trayvon to be out in the rain but perfectly fine for Zimmerman to be out in it. Zimmerman's brother even stated the same thing last night about it. He indicated that people who live in Florida wait 10 minutes before going out in the rain. Got news for him though, I was born and raised here in Florida and I've never waited 10 minutes before going outside in the rain.


~jmo~

 

[lisalei321]

This whole back and forth is beginning to remind me the nursery rhythm "for want of a nail".

I mean how hard is it to understand that when advised by LE that you don't need to follow someone, you don't follow :waitasec:?

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[CHICANA]

Still doesn't make it self defense/SYG. The choices were all GZ's when he made the choice to go after him with that loaded weapon. And what he himself said on the 911 call bears out his intent, in my opinion.

And just because he hadn't shot anyone before doesn't mean much, in my opinion. He has gone after people before, has acted aggressively, he chased someone down in his car, there are other examples.

JMHO

There are reports that he chased people down in his car ? Where can I find that info ?
Is there any evidence that the weapon was even visible before the physical altercation ?

 

[CHICANA]

It seems there is quite a double standard here doesn't it? It's not okay for Trayvon to be out in the rain but perfectly fine for Zimmerman to be out in it. Zimmerman's brother even stated the same thing last night about it. He indicated that people who live in Florida wait 10 minutes before going out in the rain. Got news for him though, I was born and raised here in Florida and I've never waited 10 minutes before going outside in the rain.


~jmo~

I think they both had the right to be out in the rain.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Lots of people are in a car going someplace.

They have to walk to that car. Why not just wait 10 minutes.

So George just saw simply someone who everyone lives in Florida knows when it rains, it pours. People take shelter in their home or they see that it's raining and they wait 10 minutes and then they go out. George saw Mr. Martin in suspicious in context of what had been happening in his community, not just --


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/29/pmt.01.html

 

[tehcloser]

Sure. You can speculate all you want; that doesn't mean it has any credible foundation. To say that one or two witnesses said it was too dark out to make out anything credible does not mean that a witness much closer to the two would have the same opinion. That's just nothing but a faulty premise.

But as you pointed out.....since I don't know exactly how many feet away any given witness was, the one that said TM was on top might have been the farther away than the other two. We don't know that's why we speculate.

 

[LambChop]

If you see an unfamiliar black teenager in a hoodie walking home, by all means you have the right to lock your doors.

You do not, however, have the right to chase him down with your gun and shoot him.

Or we could put it another way.....You do not have the right to chase someone down so that you have to shoot them. Maybe that will make sense to some.

I still wonder why the homocide detective felt it was not justified that very night?????? jmo

 

[katydid23]

Because "they always get away".......and this time he was not going to let that happen. We don't know what sort of mind set this person who was infatuated we LE had.

So he sat on this kid, subdued him and then shot him in the chest? Even though two women witnesses came out of their home three times during the incident? He is just going to pull out a gun and shoot someone in cold blood for no reason in front of witness's.

 

[Jade]

Isn’t it the point of a gated community that some are welcome and some are not and the expectation is someone may say “who goes there?”

If only GZ had called “hi there I’m GZ just checking on the neighborhood are you new?”

If only TM had pushed back his hoodie and said “hi I’m TM here visiting and put out his hand to shake with a big smile.”

And the funeral director getting his bit of fame what a lack of respect for TM and the profession.

The poor family to know he is saying such things instead of respectfully carrying out his duties he is checking for injuries with a mind to public reporting.

What kind of community is that – posts to how mean, dumb and corrupt LE is, no civility on both sides and a chatty funeral director?


All IMO