GUILTY FL - Astronaut Lisa Nowak arrested in kidnap attempt, 5 Feb 2007

[curious1]

Honestly, I don't think she was all "there". But, I do think given the opportunity she would have "offed" her competition.

This is so embarrassing for the whole country. What exactly are the safeguards/criteria for people in the NASA programs? Not saying that NASA is at fault. Look at CDC being hacked recently. But, do we take lower standards for government officials/government qualified than the rest of the population of employed workers?

We really need to look at where our tax dollars are being spent and how best to regulate the use.

I certainly hope the items in her grip weren't paid for by tax dollars. This is just something that has been going through my mind today not based in any knowledge or reality just a worry.

Having a relative that works for NASA I can tell you no. These people go through a lot of hoops. These are not your typical gov't workers, we are not talking the DMV or Post Office(my apologies is any of you work there).

 

[jillybean]

Her career with Nasa is OVER. You can take that too the bank. They do not like being embarrassed Whether she will be found gulity of all or some of the charges. She is done with Nasa.

I can't believe some ppl are trying to excuse her behavior and say she must have mental problems, YADA YADA YADA. Where is taking responsibility for your own actions? Isn't that what we try to teach our children? And if it was regular Joe Smoe who had done it, they would definitely STILL be in jail with no bond. She is getting special treatment because of her status. Maybe she didn't harm Colleen Shipman Colleen Shipnam but that was only because she didn't get the chance too. Whether she intended to Murder her or not ( still up for debate) ut she certainly wanted to harm her in some way.

Just my :twocents:

 

[curious1]

Interesting (well to me at least) snippet from the article about Norwak......

"There are a lot of things we do every day that involve some risk that we may not think about -- just getting in a car and driving to work, or people that fly airplanes for their jobs -- those things are all risky. We can sit in one place and never go anywhere or do anything, but that's not what people are about. We have a drive to go and do things, even if it's on a daily basis or with a larger goal of exploring."

Is it just me or does this take on a whole new meaning in the light of recent events?

 

[curious1]

Her career with Nasa is OVER. You can take that too the bank. They do not like being embarrassed Whether she will be found gulity of all or some of the charges. She is done with Nasa.

I can't believe some ppl are trying to excuse her behavior and say she must have mental problems, YADA YADA YADA. Where is taking responsibility for your own actions? Isn't that what we try to teach our children? And if it was regular Joe Smoe who had done it, they would definitely STILL be in jail with no bond. She is getting special treatment because of her status. Maybe she didn't harm Colleen Shipman Colleen Shipnam but that was only because she didn't get the chance too. Whether she intended to Murder her or not ( still up for debate) ut she certainly wanted to harm her in some way.

Just my :twocents:

I'm with you. I do think that she certainly has some mental health issues, but she knew what she was doing was wrong. She thought this through folks. IMO the reason she went to FL to carry out her plan was because she knew if this happened in another state that LE would not automatically tie it to her, it would have better chance of looking like a random crime. She had all that stuff in her car. She planned this out and you cannot ignore that. Now, if she was coherent enough to think all that through then she knew what she was doing was wrong. So IMO mental illness does not excuse what she did.

 

[JanetElaine]

I can't believe some ppl are trying to excuse her behavior and say she must have mental problems, YADA YADA YADA. Where is taking responsibility for your own actions?

Threads would be incredibly boring if all resorted to just saying 'dude, ya hear about that astronut woman? Sheesh man, she's a moron ain't she'.

Even if that's what it might boil down to, discussion forums would not exist if people weren't allowed to speculate about what caused her being a moron. I haven't read any posts on this thread where a poster was excusing her behaviour, only speculating on what may have triggered it. Talking about possible causes/triggers does not equate excusing her behaviour.

 

[mjak]

Interestingly, if you read the police report, she was asked about the pepper spray and she said "that was stupid". She knew it was wrong afterward, and her planning tells me she knew it was wrong before.

I mean, if we decided to never punish people because they later realized their actions were wrong we'd never need prisons - but we'd have a lot more crime, that's for sure.

I do not believe that punishment should be the ultimate goal of our criminal system. Certanitly, there are some criminals who are dangers to society and themselves and should never see the light of day. This is a women who drove for 11 hours wearing diapers with an idiotic agenda and a car filled with senseless items. She had opportunity but she did NOT stab or shoot her attended victim. She sprayed pepper spray with what she says was her intention to subdue this women. There is no point in trying to make sense of her actions because they are senseless. Focusing on punishment for this women in my opinion is not in her best intrest or societies. She is sick and needs medical treatment, not a spanking.

mjak

 

[curious1]

mjak....I can see what you mean, but I have to believe there are just some stupid people out there who do stupid things for no other reason than they are stupid and think they can get away with it. I don't think all of these people have mental issues. And when you have a stupid person harm or try to harm someone else and think they are so entitled that they can get away with it then yes you do have to punish them as criminals. I am still undecided on this woman. Again, I don't think that every criminal who does something like this does it because they are mentally ill, some of them do it because they are stupid and have a sense of entitlement plain and simple.

 

[j2mirish]

I do not believe that punishment should be the ultimate goal of our criminal system. Certanitly, there are some criminals who are dangers to society and themselves and should never see the light of day. This is a women who drove for 11 hours wearing diapers with an idiotic agenda and a car filled with senseless items. She had opportunity but she did NOT stab or shoot her attended victim. She sprayed pepper spray with what she says was her intention to subdue this women. There is no point in trying to make sense of her actions because they are senseless. Focusing on punishment for this women in my opinion is not in her best intrest or societies. She is sick and needs medical treatment, not a spanking.

mjak

bold by j2m
I dont think she had the opportunity, because the victim was smart enough not to let her in the car- had the woman given her a ride as requested, I dont believe mrs. nowak, would be out on bond right now-

 

[jillybean]

bold by j2m
I dont think she had the opportunity, because the victim was smart enough not to let her in the car- had the woman given her a ride as requested, I dont believe mrs. nowak, would be out on bond right now-

i agree

 

[close_enough]

bold by j2m
I dont think she had the opportunity, because the victim was smart enough not to let her in the car- had the woman given her a ride as requested, I dont believe mrs. nowak would be out on bond right now-

i agree....very good point...Nowak wasn't given the opportunity because the victim was smart in not letting her into the car...

 

[julianne]

I do not believe that punishment should be the ultimate goal of our criminal system. Certanitly, there are some criminals who are dangers to society and themselves and should never see the light of day. This is a women who drove for 11 hours wearing diapers with an idiotic agenda and a car filled with senseless items. She had opportunity but she did NOT stab or shoot her attended victim. She sprayed pepper spray with what she says was her intention to subdue this women. There is no point in trying to make sense of her actions because they are senseless. Focusing on punishment for this women in my opinion is not in her best intrest or societies. She is sick and needs medical treatment, not a spanking.

mjak

She's not sick, IMO. She's a depraved woman who was so jealous and envious of this girl that she was simply going to get rid of her. Her agenda, while you call it idiotic, it was most certainly also criminal in nature. There are idiotic criminals everywhere---she has now been added to the list. Put yourself in the intended victims place for a moment. Imagine some jealousy ravaged woman who already had known stalking issues with you, driving 900 miles, IN A DIAPER SO SHE COULDN'T BE PLACED AT ANY SCENE EN ROUTE, with implements that are known as weapoins......what kind of medical treatment would you want her to get? What if YOU were her intended victim, or your daughter? Frankly, she has lost the ability to have what's in her "best interest" doled out to her----she needs to be locked up! This woman isn't mentally ill--she's depraved.

 

[mjak]

mjak....I can see what you mean, but I have to believe there are just some stupid people out there who do stupid things for no other reason than they are stupid and think they can get away with it. I don't think all of these people have mental issues. And when you have a stupid person harm or try to harm someone else and think they are so entitled that they can get away with it then yes you do have to punish them as criminals. I am still undecided on this woman. Again, I don't think that every criminal who does something like this does it because they are mentally ill, some of them do it because they are stupid and have a sense of entitlement plain and simple.

I agree with you Camper. However, this women has no antisocial history as far as we know. A person with such personality defects to belive entitelment like that would have serious issues functioning in society. This women functioned at a very high level in our society. Clearly she is not intellecutally stupid and if she was this emotionally disfunctional I would expect there would have been evidence of this way before now and she would not have been able to achieve some of what she has achieved in life. I believe she has had a mental breakdown of some sort.

mjak

 

[julianne]

Having a relative that works for NASA I can tell you no. These people go through a lot of hoops. These are not your typical gov't workers, we are not talking the DMV or Post Office(my apologies is any of you work there).

You're right---NASA employees go through a intense, rigorous selection and interviewing process including background checks, psychological examinations and behavioral evaluations, etc. It's a daunting process. They pick the best of the best.

IMO, this woman is a criminal, plain and simple. She got caught & didn't think she would. You know the saying, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

 

[Smurf]

You know what I think is strange is that this Guy has not said one word yet!I watched Nancy and saw a Pic of the other woman.An a copy of the restraing order.It looks like this stalking has been going on for a few months.I have a feeling this guy and yes I am a male has been stringing both of these ladies along and got caught.

I think he is going to say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Novak." lol

I agree that maybe they got cold in their Canada training thing and snuggled up together and then his **** just sort of found it's way and well you know the rest.

 

[close_enough]

You're right---NASA employees go through a intense, rigorous selection and interviewing process including background checks, psychological examinations and behavioral evaluations, etc. It's a daunting process. They pick the best of the best.

IMO, this woman is a criminal, plain and simple. She got caught & didn't think she would. You know the saying, Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

ooooooh yeah!

Nowak's career is over...'kaput', as it should be, imo.....

 

[mjak]

She's not sick, IMO. She's a depraved woman who was so jealous and envious of this girl that she was simply going to get rid of her. Her agenda, while you call it idiotic, it was most certainly also criminal in nature. There are idiotic criminals everywhere---she has now been added to the list. Put yourself in the intended victims place for a moment. Imagine some jealousy ravaged woman who already had known stalking issues with you, driving 900 miles, IN A DIAPER SO SHE COULDN'T BE PLACED AT ANY SCENE EN ROUTE, with implements that are known as weapoins......what kind of medical treatment would you want her to get? What if YOU were her intended victim, or your daughter? Frankly, she has lost the ability to have what's in her "best interest" doled out to her----she needs to be locked up! This woman isn't mentally ill--she's depraved.

IF I was her attended victim I would want her in a psych hospital being evaluated. This women clearly lost the ability to determine what is in her best intrest when she decided to act on her distored reality. Yes, I believe she is mentally Ill . Your lack of compassion scares me.

mjak

 

[Lacy Wood]

There are tons of mental Illnesses that could explain her behavior. Their causes vary from severe trauma to organic brain disease and probably tons of causes which I do not know. This is a women who functioned at a very high level and was well acomplished who now is behaving totally bizzare and irrationaly. I do not think suspecting she is mentally Ill is a leap I think its a liklyhood. mjak

Certainly mental illness is a possibility and should be ruled in or out with hopefully competent assessments. But what is a "leap" is to immediately think that a person with a lifetime of seemingly normal behavior is mentally ill if he/she commits a heinous act. That is both counter-intuitive, and the opposite of what such behavior prefacing a horrendous act should suggest. And when your life falls apart after a despicable deed you're caught in, distraught behavior is pretty normal.

It is far more common that an individual has suppressed/repressed rages or hateful acts by voluntary control, social/peer pressures, and/or will power, than to have concealed symptoms of mental illness over which one is presumed to have little or no voluntary control. (OJ anyone?) What we now know that's in the press, if correct, strongly suggests a person in control of her behavior. While I'm sure family and friends would like to think otherwise, a history of normal behavior is suggestive of voluntary and controlled conduct, just as a history of erratic behavior may be suggestive of the opposite.

 

[jillybean]

Nowak used government contacts and government clearance via her work computer to tap into her ( Colleen's) personal information.

I wonder if she could also be charged by the Goverment for this.

 

[nanandjim]

...Your lack of compassion scares me.

You apparently have never been stalked and harrassed. I tend to agree with julianne. I have been harrassed, stalked, attacked and had property vandalized by a nut who wanted her ex-boyfriend to return to her. It is not fun and it is quite unsettling as you don't know what the person will do next. She was small, innocent looking and held a very good job. Had she not broken into my apartment and physically assaulted me, she still would not have been prosecuted. Even at that, the police tried very hard not to get me to press charges. It was absolutely disgusting.

All I have read about so far is how NASA personnel has circled wagons around Lisa Nowak. They are very concerned about her. I have not heard them express one bit of concern for the victim.

If I were Colleen Shipman, I'd prosecute this woman (if I could) and I'd dump the boyfriend after I used him to testify for me. Surely, he was witness or privy to certain incidences involving poor, little, confused Lisa.

 

[jillybean]

IF I was her attended victim I would want her in a psych hospital being evaluated. This women clearly lost the ability to determine what is in her best intrest when she decided to act on her distored reality. Yes, I believe she is mentally Ill . Your lack of compassion scares me.

mjak

We all have compassion, just because some of us disagree, you can't claim we don't. And you weren't her intended victim, so how could you possibly know how she felt and feels today.