FL - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 40 counts to classified documents and obstruction of justice, June 2023, Trial May 2024

[Stunned]

Im pretty sure it does.

 

[Stunned]

All my life I’ve been so grateful that I was born in America.
I could’ve been born like billions of others——in the Soviet Union or present day Putin’s Russia, or North Korea, Iran, Communist China or any other land where I would have no rights. Where the leader of the country is a dictator and brooks no dissent.

Or at a different time in history, like Nazi Germany.

I haven’t been so concerned about the future of our country since 9/11. That day was so desperate here (NYC) and my daughter was working near the WTC. I genuinely felt our country might not survive after witnessing that such an attack was even possible.

To have a pathological liar who cares about no one but himself, who is willing to cause upheaval to the entire country he claims to love, to have this man run again for president makes me fear for our future.

The whole idea of America was the profound new paradigm of letting the citizens vote for their leader. No crown being passed from one heir to the next. No military coup.

To think that we had an election in 2020, and the loser will not step down, will still not concede, will still not admit when his hand is in the cookie jar, makes me worry if our democracy will continue.

Famously, Benjamin Franklin was asked during the Constitutional Convention if we were going to have a monarchy or a republic, and he replied “A republic, if you can keep it.”


Never did I doubt that we could keep it, until now.

The first time around, okay, we didn’t quite know how Trump would govern. Now we‘ve seen it.

I know Trump was speaking earlier. I didn’t watch. We all know, word for word, what he will say.

I will “speak“ when I cast my vote, but if he’s somehow re-elected, I’ll know I’ve lost my country and its rule of law.


JMO

Spoken like a SANE American.

 

[MyBelle]

He loves his rubes. There's a sucker born every minute, as they say....

Trump’s campaign exploited default opt-in settings. It cost his supporters millions.

Recurring donations and "money bomb" checkboxes were pre-checked for donors.

mashable.com

His

No surprise! His cult of followers are fools who are soon parted from their money.

JMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Lawrence: Trump comes up with new docs case motive after arraignment

On the day Donald Trump was arraigned in federal court in Miami, MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell analyzes the former president’s new motive for why he held onto classified government documents after leaving the White House.

www.msnbc.com

 

[branmuffin]

Remember this?

2020
Lu Jing, 56, was the second Chinese national to be arrested for trespassing last year at the resort [Mar A Lago] where Trump often visits.
... on Dec. 18 when she entered the property and began taking pictures.

In March of last year, another Chinese national, Yujing Zhang, passed an initial Secret Service checkpoint by passing herself off as a relative of a resort member.
She said she walked onto the property and began taking cellphone pictures.
A security guard told the jury he tried to tell her she was not allowed .... She left but then came back onto the property through another entrance, he said.

Chinese woman who intruded at Mar-a-Lago sentenced to six months

A Chinese woman who was acquitted of trespassing at U.S. President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida was sentenced to six months in jail on Friday on a separate charge of resisting arrest.

www.reuters.com

Remember this? A dinner with a foreign leader looking at highly confidential information reading them using cell phone lights while surrounded by civilian diners.

Missile crisis by candlelight: Donald Trump's use of Mar-a-Lago raises security questions

Trump handled news of North Korea’s missile launch at his private club, rather than the situation room, raising an array of ethical and national security issues

www.theguardian.com

 

[anneg]

Or.... it could be someone who accessed the room looking for classified information, because Trump is incapable of discretion, and was furtively going through boxes taking pictures, got spooked they'd get caught and in their hurry to exit the room, left a mess on the floor and Nauta filmed it when he found the mess. Probably because the last time he was in the room, the files were in the boxes. Which is probably why, when Nauta texted someone about the fallen boxes and the displaced files on the floor, the unknown person said, Oh no, oh no. And I don't think that was Trump or Melania but another unindicted individual who knew exactly what was in those boxes.

The Washington Post reported the following about Employee 2 in the Indictment:

Another key aide, described in the indictment as “Trump Employee 2,” matches information confirmed to The Washington Post about former Trump executive assistant Molly Michael. Michael and a lawyer representing her did not respond to requests for comment.

Michael sat outside Trump’s office, connected his calls, kept his schedule and often translated his moods to visitors and other Trump advisers. She was deeply involved in all aspects of his life, Trump advisers said, until she left his employ last year. Michael was rattled by the extensive attention from federal authorities conducting the investigation, people familiar with the situation have said.

Michael provided text messages and photos to federal investigators, the indictment shows, and kept close tabs on Trump’s packing of boxes himself — contrary to the claims made by some of his lawyers.

“Box answer will be wrenched out of him by tomorrow,” Michael said in a text message to Alex Cannon, a Trump lawyer trying to get him to return materials to the Archives. Cannon is referred to in the indictment as a “Trump Representative,” according to a person familiar with the situation. He declined to comment.

At another time, Michael updates another Trump aide on the former president’s efforts to sort through boxes and is said in the indictment to help Trump valet Walt Nauta move boxes. Her text messages appear frequently throughout the indictment, often in exchanges with Nauta.

 

[branmuffin]

Remember this?

2020
Lu Jing, 56, was the second Chinese national to be arrested for trespassing last year at the resort [Mar A Lago] where Trump often visits.
... on Dec. 18 when she entered the property and began taking pictures.

In March of last year, another Chinese national, Yujing Zhang, passed an initial Secret Service checkpoint by passing herself off as a relative of a resort member.
She said she walked onto the property and began taking cellphone pictures.
A security guard told the jury he tried to tell her she was not allowed .... She left but then came back onto the property through another entrance, he said.

Chinese woman who intruded at Mar-a-Lago sentenced to six months

A Chinese woman who was acquitted of trespassing at U.S. President Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida was sentenced to six months in jail on Friday on a separate charge of resisting arrest.

www.reuters.com

Remember this? A dinner with a foreign leader looking at highly confidential information reading them using cell phone lights while surrounded by civilian diners.

Missile crisis by candlelight: Donald Trump's use of Mar-a-Lago raises security questions

Trump handled news of North Korea’s missile launch at his private club, rather than the situation room, raising an array of ethical and national security issues

www.theguardian.com

Nauta had an idea what was up the minute he snapped that photo - those Five Eyes markings are exactly why he snapped the photo and texted it. IMO, I suspect he sent it to another ex-military veteran staffer who also knew exactly what those markings meant and ergo the "Oh no oh no" response. Every single one of us who've worn the uniform would know that as soon as we saw the classification marking on the document jacket (folder).

Nauta wore the uniform. He knew what it meant. Worst part is that he still carried on moving the documents around, he abetted Trump (conspiracy??), even after knowing this when he knew he should have stopped 'following orders'. Good thing he's out because the USN would have court-martialed him in a NY minute. I'd like to see him actually put his Country first and cooperate, but if his butt ends up in prison, I'd be quite all right with that too. Any vet worth their oath also knows that thou doest not follow manifestly unlawful orders.

Nauta didn't leave the military until September 2021 which was several months after he played musical boxes at M-A-L and helped Trump send some to Bedminster to fool Attorney #1 that all boxes had been returned to NARA. If he was still military couldn't he be courtmarshaled and sent to Leavenworth if convicted? Safety wise, Leavenworth would be better for him than a federal prison.

 

[branmuffin]

I’m not afraid of another civil war. I think that would take more than a few unstable people. I just don’t see anything in RL that would lead me to think that such a thing could happen. There are some loud people but I think they are just a few in the grand scheme. imo

Are you thinking of a 'traditional' civil war where combatants wear uniforms to identify who they are and belong to regiments and divisions or are you thinking of groups with similar philosophies who operate by wearing uniforms like the boogaloo boys, the 3 percenters, the proud boys, the oath keepers, et al, who do wear uniforms of a stripe to identify themselves as antigovernment and operate on an ad hoc basis much like guerillas and terrorists? I'm thinking of the latter myself. To paraphrase Shakespeare, a terrorist by any other name still smells like a terrorist.

 

[d0lphin]

Does this mean the FBI and environmentalists didn't plant the boxes as some kind of hoax?

He just can't help himself can he?
The more he spouts off, the more he incriminates himself

 

[NuttMegg]

Bald faced lies

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/14/politics/fact-check-trump-bedminster-speech/index.html

 

[NuttMegg]

Remember this? A dinner with a foreign leader looking at highly confidential information reading them using cell phone lights while surrounded by civilian diners.

Missile crisis by candlelight: Donald Trump's use of Mar-a-Lago raises security questions

Trump handled news of North Korea’s missile launch at his private club, rather than the situation room, raising an array of ethical and national security issues

www.theguardian.com

Nauta didn't leave the military until September 2021 which was several months after he played musical boxes at M-A-L and helped Trump send some to Bedminster to fool Attorney #1 that all boxes had been returned to NARA. If he was still military couldn't he be courtmarshaled and sent to Leavenworth if convicted? Safety wise, Leavenworth would be better for him than a federal prison.

Remember Reality Winner? Transmitted ONE document to the media proving Russian interference in our elections. Five years and 3 months for "Gathering, transmitting or losing national defense information". Apparently she had just left the USAF, honorable discharge.
Imo. BothTrump and Nauta did far, far, worse. But watch. the lone female trying to alert citizens that their votes were bring hacked....she gets the book thrown at her. Read how highly educated and accomplished she is.

Reality Winner - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

If Nauta was active military he should be court martialed too, in addition to the federal espionage charges.

 

[branmuffin]

That may work sometimes, but it doesn't explain the SCI and SAP and Five Eyes ... Those can only be read in a SCIF and even then, only by those of us who have a need to see the file.

They sure as heck aren't kept in bath and ballrooms with the public able to have easy access. This kind of stuff is specialized cabinet, vaulted, alarmed storage stuff. Trump and Nauta know that.

Like: "Hey about that last file ... let's head into the SCIF to talk about it" stuff - let alone opening the file to read it outside of said SCIF.

One of the things I found disconcerting was seeing a printer in the Lake Room which was just outside the Trump's private residence at M-A-L. He could have been merrily scanning docs day and night and no one would have been the wiser, not even Melania since she has her own apartment.

 

[branmuffin]

Donald Trump stony-faced during federal indictment hearing

Donald Trump's arraignment in a Florida court is observed by two BBC reporters in Miami.

www.bbc.com

Mr Trump and Mr Nauta received what was known as a "personal surety bond". Judge Goodman released both Mr Trump and Mr Nauta without any restrictions on their travel, nor did they have to surrender their passports or pay a monetary bond.

The judge initially said Mr Trump would be forbidden from contacting a number of witnesses that was due to be provided by government prosecutors. Although that list has not yet been drawn up, Mr Trump's legal team argued that many potential witnesses were likely to be Mr Trump's employees or colleagues, and it would be "impossible" for him to not contact them at all.

In the end, Judge Goodman attempted to accommodate Mr Trump, deciding he would only be forbidden from speaking to these as yet unknown witnesses about the facts of the case. If the list of witnesses he could not speak to seemed "unwieldy", Mr Goodman said, Mr Trump could appeal it.

Mr Nauta did not enter a plea today, as his lawyer was not currently authorised to practice in the Southern District of Florida.

Instead, he was released on bond and his own arraignment was postponed to 27 June.

If a lawyer is supposed to provide the best possible defense for their client, then Nauta's attorney should tell him to turn state's evidence against Trump to save his own *advertiser censored**.

 

[branmuffin]

It's hard to believe white supremacy is still alive and well all these many years after Dr. King's march in Washington. Very sad.

JMO

A lot of America's wealthy vote for Trump because he makes them wealthier but many occupiers of lower rungs of wealth cleave to Trump because their lives are stagnant and the rising middle class of black voters and upstart foreigners from well educated countries like India and the Middle East frighten them. No one wants to be on the bottom of the totem pole. They took comfort in identifying those 'others' who were worse off than them and want to keep it that way.

 

[SouthAussie]

Lawrence: Trump comes up with new docs case motive after arraignment

On the day Donald Trump was arraigned in federal court in Miami, MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell analyzes the former president’s new motive for why he held onto classified government documents after leaving the White House.

www.msnbc.com

So, he hadn't had time to go through all the boxes and sort the personal stuff from the Top Secret documents yet. He's a busy man.


The National Archives put out a media alert 4 days ago, because they want people to know that .....

The Presidential Records Act (PRA) requires the President to separate personal documents from Presidential records before leaving office. 44 U.S.C. 2203(b).
The PRA also requires that all documentary materials “be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately.” 44 U.S.C. 2203(b). The President does not have discretion to categorize a Presidential record as a personal record.

National Archives - Media Alert - Friday, June 9, 2023

 

[Niner]

Thanks all for your posts! So Nauta returns on 6/27/23 for his arraignment & Trump? Probably no "next" hearing date...

 

[Lilibet]

So, he hadn't had time to go through all the boxes and sort the personal stuff from the Top Secret documents yet. He's a busy man.


The Presidential Records Act (PRA) requires the President to separate personal documents from Presidential records before leaving office. 44 U.S.C. 2203(b).
The PRA also requires that all documentary materials “be categorized as Presidential records or personal records upon their creation or receipt and be filed separately.” 44 U.S.C. 2203(b). The President does not have discretion to categorize a Presidential record as a personal record.

National Archives - Media Alert - Friday, June 9, 2023

I just can’t imagine packing to move in such a haphazard manner. He even said some of the boxes had clothing mixed in with documents! Why?! I’ve moved a number of times in the past few years. I labeled every box with its contents and what room it should go to. If it was for the kitchen it didn’t have bathroom stuff in it or documents. I realize Trump was convinced he wouldn’t have to move, and his staff was no doubt afraid to mention packing to him. But he had about two weeks after January 6 to get it done. It was chaotic, but not impossible. And it’s not like he had to do it all by himself.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks all for your posts! So Nauta returns on 6/27/23 for his arraignment & Trump? Probably no "next" hearing date...

No next hearing date yet. It will probably be Rocket Docket VS Trump Delays.



"You can expect a criminal case to be resolved within six months of an indictment issuing," Walter Norkin, a former federal prosecutor in the Southern District of Florida, told ABC News.
"The judges in the Southern District of Florida adhere very strictly to the Speedy Trial clock, which, with limited exceptions, requires trial or conviction to occur within 70 days."

Trump federal indictment: What happens next?

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Trump greets arraignment with showmanship in bid to upstage charges - Washington Post

The almost celebratory display on Tuesday, clashing with the more typical sobriety of court proceedings, highlighted Trump’s instinct to face down federal charges with the same bluster he marshaled against previous threats to his business and candidacy, and to project strength for his supporters, constructing an alternate reality where he is not in deepening legal jeopardy.

“He’s scared s---less,” said John Kelly, his former chief of staff. “This is the way he compensates for that. He gives people the appearance he doesn’t care by doing this. For the first time in his life, it looks like he’s being held accountable. Up until this point in his life, it’s like, I’m not going to pay you, take me to court. He’s never been held accountable before.”

 

[Vern]

To be clear - Trump is not a victim in this. Excellent little video documenting others who've been charged and how Trump is actully being treated:

Trump victim act debunked by consistent DOJ record of Espionage Act prosecutions

Rachel Maddow looks at other Justice Department prosecutions under the Espionage Act before Donald Trump's indictment and talks with an MSNBC panel about why broadcasting Trump's classified documents trial live would be an important counter measure to Trump's constant mischaracterization of his...

www.msnbc.com