GUILTY FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #20

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cottonweaver said:
There was mention on this thread of a suicide pact Donna and Harvey.
When I watched it, I didn't catch that.
Did anybody else hear it?
Click to expand...
I just re-watched and the source who provided the news of the DA/HA suicide pact in Court was Chief Mack of Leon County Detention/Jail.

When being examined by the defense (at about the 23 min mark), MD asked Chief Mack if he listened to the entire 25 min call between DA and CA before DA was arrested, and he responded that he did not but heard the portion about the suicide pact.
 
Seattle1 said:
I think if Rashbaum was being honest, he would have said that 'jail is torture for DA' and not that 'she's being tortured in jail,' which begs the question of who is torturing her.

The reality is DA's not in jail for being a Coral Gables socialite.

She's in jail because she allegedly participated in having the father of her grandsons murdered in cold blood.

Jail is a place that houses criminals, not socialites.

Geez, of course jail is torture for DA -- for the first time in her life, she's not being treated like she's special but as an alleged murderer.

I'd say DA needs to be reminded that she put herself in the Leon County Detention and she's certainly no victim. JMO
Click to expand...
SEATTLE1 You are the poster of the day!! Absolutely spot on. One man's torture is another man's regular exercise routine. Example: Hubby asked me to go on a hike with him....I thought I was going to have a heart attack after the first 20 minutes. I look at a piece of gym equipment and call it an instrument of torture. My husband sees the same equipment and can't wait to purchase it. The jail has a routine that works for them, but it does not work for DA's whims. I was embarrassed for atty "D" on so many issues...her blank stare told me all I needed to know when she was faced with the truth she hadn't even requested her client's files or medical records.
PS....I did not see an incarcerated inmate unaware of her circumstances. I only saw a woman who has complete and utter disregard for the process her recorded words initiated.
 
DA was strong, alert, defiant and emotive. She wasn't a drooling invalid unaware of her surroundings or the discussions taking place. Her displeasure was evident and she was able to follow the judges direction to let counsel speak for her, after blurting out, "Oh my God." She was neither vapid or senile. She was totally engaged with the courtroom proceedings, ambulatory and cognisant. I am sure her e-mails to her attorney will be didactic, impudent towards her jailers and acrimonious on every level: From showering, eating sandwiches with her own hands (oh pshaw!) and displeasure with the daily menu. Regardless of her self centered "suffering" it is nothing compared to the suffering a parent experiences when their child has been killed.
 
clearskies1 said:
I think Chief Mack said the procedure for "self-harm" inmates is to allow them to use the phone, zoom etc by taking them to an office that has a closed glass window and they are watched so they don't self harm using any of any equipment etc. (At 22:19 below). So I guess they were not following that procedure with DA?? Looks like Attorney Toomey voluntarily handed DA's medical records to DA's attorney as he left the courtroom. (At 43:00).

Click to expand...

I missed the file transfer -- only saw the Counsel for the Sheriff stop at defense table to give MD his business card as requested but he had to go through his computer bag to find one. I can't remember the last time I exchanged cards!

IMO, DA has been able to talk to communicate with her counsel as the process allows but because DA is on direct observation/suicide watch, and has not yet been cleared for step down by the medical providers at Leon County Detention, DA can only communicate with MD (and others) while being watched, and I think this is the rub, and has been the rub, from day one. for BOTH MD and DA.

DA does not like being viewed through a window, period.
She's demanding complete privacy to talk to her attorney either on the phone or in person--which is not going to happen per the protocols in place for an inmate on suicide watch.

Whether or not DA would be more comfortable being observed if she's inside a private room with her lawyer is yet to be tested because her attorney has never scheduled an in-person consult with DA since she's been at Leon County Detention.

Personally, I don't see MD accepting being observed by Jail personnel during an in-person consult with DA, and think she'd rather take the matter up in Court as a civil suit than comply.

I dunno -- given the players here, I don't exactly see this situation getting any better.

What I see is a defense attorney who's both ignoring the mental health of her client while being disrespectful of the Tallahassee providers who have deemed DA unsafe or at risk.

And for the last time MD, we don't care that the Psychiatrist at Miami Jail signed off on DA stepping down from suicide watch 72 hours after DA was booked!

First, that's not how mental health risk is evaluated. Mental health is truly one day at a time. I think the sooner MD accepts that her client is NOT the evaluator of her own suicide watch, and shows some respect for the Healthcare Professionals at the Leon County Detention who are actually doing the observing of DA 24/7, the sooner DA can find some stability where she can eventually be stepped down from suicide watch.

Until then, MD playing the blame game, making false allegations, serves only to provoke DA who doesn't need any help in that department! JMO

And what's up with MD's hearing? I think 'Mack' sounds like 'Mack', and don't know where she pulled 'Mackie' from.

And same with Dr. Sapp which was even spelled for her!

And I don't understand why MD insisted on addressing the Chief as if this was a deposition but I was glad when the Court intervened here. In-fact, I'd say MD was on the borderline of bullying Chief Mack. I didn't like it. It wasn't necessary, and it made me feel uncomfortable. JMO
 
Seattle1 said:
I missed the file transfer -- only saw the Counsel for the Sheriff stop at defense table to give MD his business card as requested but he had to go through his computer bag to find one. I can't remember the last time I exchanged cards!

IMO, DA has been able to talk to communicate with her counsel as the process allows but because DA is on direct observation/suicide watch, and has not yet been cleared for step down by the medical providers at Leon County Detention, DA can only communicate with MD (and others) while being watched, and I think this is the rub, and has been the rub, from day one. for BOTH MD and DA.

DA does not like being viewed through a window, period.
She's demanding complete privacy to talk to her attorney either on the phone or in person--which is not going to happen per the protocols in place for an inmate on suicide watch.

Whether or not DA would be more comfortable being observed if she's inside a private room with her lawyer is yet to be tested because her attorney has never scheduled an in-person consult with DA since she's been at Leon County Detention.

Personally, I don't see MD accepting being observed by Jail personnel during an in-person consult with DA, and think she'd rather take the matter up in Court as a civil suit than comply.

I dunno -- given the players here, I don't exactly see this situation getting any better.

What I see is a defense attorney who's both ignoring the mental health of her client while being disrespectful of the Tallahassee providers who have deemed DA unsafe or at risk.

And for the last time MD, we don't care that the Psychiatrist at Miami Jail signed off on DA stepping down from suicide watch 72 hours after DA was booked!

First, that's not how mental health risk is evaluated. Mental health is truly one day at a time. I think the sooner MD accepts that her client is NOT the evaluator of her own suicide watch, and shows some respect for the Healthcare Professionals at the Leon County Detention who are actually doing the observing of DA 24/7, the sooner DA can find some stability where she can eventually be stepped down from suicide watch.

Until then, MD playing the blame game, making false allegations, serves only to provoke DA who doesn't need any help in that department! JMO

And what's up with MD's hearing? I think 'Mack' sounds like 'Mack', and don't know where she pulled 'Mackie' from.

And same with Dr. Sapp which was even spelled for her!

And I don't understand why MD insisted on addressing the Chief as if this was a deposition but I was glad when the Court intervened here. In-fact, I'd say MD was on the borderline of bullying Chief Mack. I didn't like it. It wasn't necessary, and it made me feel uncomfortable. JMO
Click to expand...
At 16:38 in the video in my post DA's attorney said she was able to have one call with DA on Friday but DA was forced to put it on speakerphone with guards listening. Not sure if that's true but it's what was claimed. I don't think the jail reps made clear what options DA was given or whether she objected to a guard watching her on a call. Maybe I missed it... As an aside, it annoys me that DA's attorney refers to everyone as "Mrs." -- Mrs. Cappleman, Mrs. Adelson ... it's not 1952!
 
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At DA's Motion hearing on 12/11, Chief Norman Mack told the Court that an inmate on suicide watch receives a suicide smock and suicide blanket, and is observed 24/7 by a guard outside their room. Looking at these garments, I'm not understanding why an inmate would be naked inside their holding room unless it was by choice. Does anybody know?

Ok, a bit more research and I think it might be a supply issue where there are insufficient number of smocks. Seems in Florida's Duvall County Jail, they actually house naked, suicidal detainees in the same cell! o_O


1702364561655.png

How it Works
The Suicide Prevention Blanket from Argentino has been designed and crafted to prevent inmates or patients from using the fabric to create a weapon or hanging mechanism, as this blanket cannot be rolled, twisted, ripped, or torn to create a noose. Designed with high-quality fabric and craftsmanship, the Suicide Prevention Blanket offers full coverage and warmth without compromising safety, security, and overall effectiveness.

The Argentino Suicide Prevention Blanket can be used in any of the following facilities to aid in the prevention of suicide and self-harm:

  • Detention and correctional facilities
1702364733101.png
securblanket.com

Suicide Prevention Cell Blanket

Argentino Brand Suicide Prevention Blanket patented (Canada Made). 5 Layer quilted FR Aramid fabric w/ Ballistic nylon middle layer. Size: 58x78 Inches
securblanket.com securblanket.com
 
Seattle1 said:
At DA's Motion hearing on 12/11, Chief Norman Mack told the Court that an inmate on suicide watch receives a suicide smock and suicide blanket, and is observed 24/7 by a guard outside their room. Looking at these garments, I'm not understanding why an inmate would be naked inside their holding room unless it was by choice. Does anybody know?

Ok, a bit more research and I think it might be a supply issue where there are insufficient number of smocks. Seems in Florida's Duvall County Jail, they actually house naked, suicidal detainees in the same cell! o_O


View attachment 467527

How it Works
The Suicide Prevention Blanket from Argentino has been designed and crafted to prevent inmates or patients from using the fabric to create a weapon or hanging mechanism, as this blanket cannot be rolled, twisted, ripped, or torn to create a noose. Designed with high-quality fabric and craftsmanship, the Suicide Prevention Blanket offers full coverage and warmth without compromising safety, security, and overall effectiveness.

The Argentino Suicide Prevention Blanket can be used in any of the following facilities to aid in the prevention of suicide and self-harm:

  • Detention and correctional facilities
View attachment 467528
securblanket.com

Suicide Prevention Cell Blanket

Argentino Brand Suicide Prevention Blanket patented (Canada Made). 5 Layer quilted FR Aramid fabric w/ Ballistic nylon middle layer. Size: 58x78 Inches
securblanket.com securblanket.com
Click to expand...
Not talking specifically about Donna, but I think things could be done better than housing suicidal inmates naked. The idea of being compelled to become and stay naked in public is nightmarish. Without imprisonment and a mental health crisis.
 
Seattle1 said:
At DA's Motion hearing on 12/11, Chief Norman Mack told the Court that an inmate on suicide watch receives a suicide smock and suicide blanket, and is observed 24/7 by a guard outside their room. Looking at these garments, I'm not understanding why an inmate would be naked inside their holding room unless it was by choice. Does anybody know?
Click to expand...
snipped

If you google her records, you can find her booking records as well as event logs.
She was given a full list of items late on 20th or 21st including sheets and blankets and clothing plus the ' spork' ( No suicide smock listed)

Not every day's log is in public domain right now. It's possible that her status changed. ( She was direct obs and high risk eval on 20/21st)
I did wonder if Mack was responding generically on this point or whether her classification had changed since booking.
He said something wtte of 26 or 27 Nov she was evaluated by pysch Dr Pugh.

Thanks for time stamp re Harvey & Donna sleeping pills pact. I went to re-listen and I heard it
BTW, if you go to the clips I posted, a few pages back, I noted that in one clip, Donna catches glimpse of the camera....
I can't help but wonder if her first mention of suicide to Charlie wasn't just mouthing-off but was rather the kind of emotional blackmail tactic she'd developed over time. ( Since Rob. Recall his only interview comments pre 2004 and his first marriage)

ETA forgot to add, we have not seen her in a smock since her first appearance in court in Miami. My guess is that she isn't being deprived of jail clothes, as per every court appearance thereafter
 
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ChezSimone said:
Her youtube channel is still up, yes. She is posting as well.
But the tab "videos" is gone and so is the folder "wiretaps" with all the recorded calls
Click to expand...
Yes just seen that now.
Maybe she's just fed-up with other 'creators' using her uploads without crediting her?

ETA Thinking back to Donna's 2016 calls now, I think we never heard her at her worst. My gut feeling FWIW is that Charlie has, since his conviction and then I wonder what kind of person - or mother - offloads onto a recently-convicted family member, effectively making them feel worse, and then books First Class on Emirates? ( All speculation)
 
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Tuesday, Dec. 12th:
*Sentencing Hearing (@ 10:30am ET) - FL – Daniel Eric Markel (41) (shot to death July 18, 2014, Tallahassee) - *Charles Jay Adelson (37 @ time of crime/45/now 46) was indicted (4/20/22), arrested & charged (4/21/22) & booked (in Leon County 4/25/22) with 1st degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder & solicitation to commit murder. Plead not guilty. No bond (denied bond 4/26/22). Bond release denied (9/9/22).
Jury selection set to begin on 10/23/23 & ended on 10/25/23. 12 Jurors & 3 alternates (8 men & 7 women; 7 white men, 1 Black man, 2 white women & 5 Black women).
Trial began on 10/26/23. State rested their case on 11/1/23. Defense began on 11/1/23 & rested on 11/3/23. From 9am 5:30pm except Wednesdays from 9am-5pm/5:15pm.
Jury deliberated (11/6/23) for 3 hours 13 minutes & verdict: guilty of all 3 charges.
Circuit Judge Stephen Everett presiding. Prosecutor Georgia Cappleman. Defense attorney Daniel Rashbaum & Kate Meyers.
Court info from 4/21/22 thru 10/23/23 & Jury Selection Day 1-3 (10/23-10/25/23) & Trial Day 1-7 (10/26-11/3/23) reference post #2 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...markel-murdered-by-hitmen-3-guilty-17.695169/
11/6/23 Monday, Trial Day 8: Closing arguments by Georgia Cappleman & by defense attorney Daniel Rashbaum &rebuttal by Cappleman. Judge Everett gave jury instructions & jury went to deliberations.
For more info see post #148 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...-murdered-by-hitmen-3-guilty-17.695169/page-8
Jury left at 1:48pm for start of deliberations.
For more info see post #234 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...murdered-by-hitmen-3-guilty-17.695169/page-12
Jury deliberated for about 3 hours 13 minutes. GUILTY on all 3: 1st degree murder, conspiracy & solicitation; mandatory life sentence.
For more info see post #344 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...murdered-by-hitmen-3-guilty-17.695169/page-18
Sentencing hearing & victim impact statements on 12/12/23 @ 2:30pm.
11/7/23 Update: Defendant Adelson's Sealed Motion to Interview Jurors. Rashbaum filed this motion to permit him to interview the jurors in this case. His motion states that he received an email from one of the alternate jurors, who told him about an apparent group chat among the jurors. Rashbaum wants to interview the jurors about this apparent group chat to determine whether they engaged in improper deliberations outside the jury room, which could potentially constitute grounds for challenging the verdict. The motion notes that the prosecution opposes this request for the defense to interview the jurors.
11/9/23 Update: Defense’s Motion to interview jurors-denied & under seal.
On November 9, 2023, The State Surgeon General issued a suspension of the license to practice as a dentist in the State of Florida against Charles Jay Adelson D.M.D.
11/6/23 Update: The judge ordered a pre sentencing investigation for Adelson & set the date 12/12/2023 as Case Management Conference. Today 12/4/23, the Case Management Conference is CANCELLED/REMOVED. Instead, the Court sets the date for Final Disposition (Sentencing) on 12/12/23 @ 2:30pm.
 
BTW, I heard mention on one of the analysis shows that the Sheriff had been involved in Innocence Projects in the US. ( Local lawyer was opining that Walt McNeil was the last person you'd expect to be running deliberately inhumane, rights-violating jail etc)

Anyway, checked it out to see if former is true.

According to link-
' NAACP Humanitarian Award; recipient of the Innocence Project of Florida Partner in Justice Award'

Sheriff Archives - Florida Sheriffs Association

www.flsheriffs.org www.flsheriffs.org
 
Seattle1 said:
I just re-watched and the source who provided the news of the DA/HA suicide pact in Court was Chief Mack of Leon County Detention/Jail.

When being examined by the defense (at about the 23 min mark), MD asked Chief Mack if he listened to the entire 25 min call between DA and CA before DA was arrested, and he responded that he did not but heard the portion about the suicide pact.
Click to expand...
The attorney Gregg Toomey actually mentionned listening to the call himself. A little before Chief Mack was asked to speak. (At the 20min mark)
 
Rashbaum’s conflict of interest is glaringly obvious at this point imo. He’s passively repping Donna and Harvey. There’s no way he would’ve advised Charlie to roll on Donna and that’s unethical imo.

Descalzo is just doing her job advocating for her client. She has a difficult client, and Donna will only chose someone who will bow down to her. Descalzo should’ve said no to doing this motion. But she may be a non-assertive lawyer who just wants to keep a client. This is a high profile case and she knows it will get her publicity so she’s willing to put up with Donna’s theatrics. Just speculating of course. I’m surprised she’s keeping the case - been reading a lot about how she’s a white collar crime atty mostly. Very strange!

JMO
 
minusfour said:
TuNot talking specifically about Donna, but I think things could be done better than housing suicidal inmates naked. The idea of being compelled to become and stay naked in public is nightmarish. Without imprisonment and a mental health crisis.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but IMO an inmate that's really suicidal could tear a strip of clothing out and make a noose of it.
 
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