FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #21

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cottonweaver said:
As some wags already commented on SM - I hope he's very, very expensive
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It wasn’t about Wendi having any connection with the word “Tuto” anyway. It was just the connection with “Tuto” and “owl”,relating to Luis posting an owl and wendi wearing an owl.Just a coincidence
 
Knitpicker said:
Someone mentioned that years ago…that Tuto is an owl, and I was the one who mentioned it here. So, I was just making sure it wasn’t incorrect.
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So I can blame you? Ha-ha...we've missed your input. I can't imagine why your moniker is "Knitpicker" and mine is "IQuestion"??...the ying to my yang!
Can anyone tell me if criminal appeals are normally successful? Does the attorney still get paid if the court of appeals rejects the case? If you have paid your attorney in full, as I see on the submitted docs, and the attorney dies....does the appellant get his money back from the estate of the attorney? (I question everything>) Does it keep moving up the chain of higher courts if rejected? Can a court reject the case but lower the years on sentencing? (LWOP to say 25 years, etc.) Look forward to your expertise or you tube links. Also remeber the Feds originally wanted to take over prosecution of CA, but the state of Florida prevailed....probably a good idea to still have a Federal case pending on CA for other activities...then there would be no double jeopardy issues.
 
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Haven't listened to it yet but here's another jail call which PL&A has uploaded another with transcript


Gigi's summary
* Bri says Ryan Fitzpatrick messaged her. She didn’t respond. * Charlie says this is like a crash and burn - he was expecting to go home. * Charlie complains it wasn’t a jury of his peers. * Bri says nobody who spoke against him mentioned Wendi’s book. * He says Wendi’s book cost him his life. They made it seem Wendi didn’t believe Charlie. * Charlie breaks down when Bri says Tim has been so supportive and good to their son. * Charlie says he’s in with a bunch of animals - picture being locked in a homeless shelter with a bunch of animals. * Charlie says this is mental torture & he can’t imagine not being out in the real world. * He says the emails make Donna look crazy and Wendi’s book made her look like a smarty *advertiser censored** b****** Charlie says they would have convicted his dog.
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re that summary:
- as Ryan F said on STS recently - he'd known her for a long time and she'd also contacted him during the years she was in the fight for paternity & child support. ( she used to follow him on SM)
- In a previous call I posted, Janis M made it sound as if Charlie had promised Janis that when he got out they might start a family together and go travelling together.
- In the last call i posted , he claimed to his parents : 'The only thing I wanted to do is be a dad. I dated Bri for 6 weeks and found out she was pregnant 6 weeks after we broke up. ‘ I said I wanna keep it, I wanna be a dad’ ( But ofc we know that Charlie is a prolific liar, sounds like he tells different lies to different people)
 
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IQuestion said:
So I can blame you? Ha-ha...we've missed your input. I can't imagine why your moniker is "Knitpicker" and mine is "IQuestion"??...the ying to my yang!
Can anyone tell me if criminal appeals are normally successful? Does the attorney still get paid if the court of appeals rejects the case? If you have paid your attorney in full, as I see on the submitted docs, and the attorney dies....does the appellant get his money back from the estate of the attorney? (I question everything>) Does it keep moving up the chain of higher courts if rejected? Can a court reject the case but lower the years on sentencing? (LWOP to say 25 years, etc.) Look forward to your expertise or you tube links. Also remeber the Feds originally wanted to take over prosecution of CA, but the state of Florida prevailed....probably a good idea to still have a Federal case pending on CA for other activities...then there would be no double jeopardy issues.
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It is difficult to say whether criminal appeals are normally successful, each one is different, and it would depend on whether the issues raised have merit.

For an appeal to be successful, the appellate court must find that the lower court has made a mistake, and only certain mistakes qualify. Those are the issues the attorney will raise on appeal.

Yes, the attorney gets paid if you lose. He doesn’t get paid a flat fee up front, generally it would be an hourly fee for the drafting of the briefs and responses. If the attorney dies, monies already paid for work already done would not be refunded, I wouldn’t think. You would have to find another attorney to take the appeal over, if that’s what you wanted.

If you lose at the level of the state appellate court, you can try to appeal to the Florida Supreme Court, but higher courts have rules for what they will and will not take up on appeal. They only can take jurisdiction in certain cases, like if there’s a conflict between two lower courts on an issue that you’ve raised or if there’s an issue of Florida constitutional law, for example. It’s not automatic.

If the state Supreme Court doesn’t take it, you may have reached a dead end; in limited circumstances where you raise an issue of federal law (civil rights, for example) you may be able to appeal to a Federal Court and eventually the US Supreme Court, but that’s only in limited circumstances, I’m not sure if Charlie has any federal issues he plans to raise.

As for the sentence, you can appeal an issue related to the conviction itself or related to the sentencing, those are separate proceedings. But in Florida, if you’re sentenced to life, you do life, and murder carries a mandatory life sentence. So, if you’re convicted of murder and the court sentenced you to life, that sentence is not a mistake you can raise on appeal. You can raise issues related to the conviction, but only certain issues of law and evidence.


ETA - any attorneys can correct me if I got any of that wrong, I never said I was a good lawyer, and I don’t do criminal, but I have done appeals.
 
IQuestion said:
So I can blame you? Ha-ha...we've missed your input. I can't imagine why your moniker is "Knitpicker" and mine is "IQuestion"??...the ying to my yang!
Can anyone tell me if criminal appeals are normally successful? Does the attorney still get paid if the court of appeals rejects the case? If you have paid your attorney in full, as I see on the submitted docs, and the attorney dies....does the appellant get his money back from the estate of the attorney? (I question everything>) Does it keep moving up the chain of higher courts if rejected? Can a court reject the case but lower the years on sentencing? (LWOP to say 25 years, etc.) Look forward to your expertise or you tube links. Also remeber the Feds originally wanted to take over prosecution of CA, but the state of Florida prevailed....probably a good idea to still have a Federal case pending on CA for other activities...then there would be no double jeopardy issues.
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Yep, you can blame me! Lol.
Can’t answer the appeals questions though!
 
Knitpicker said:
It wasn’t about Wendi having any connection with the word “Tuto” anyway. It was just the connection with “Tuto” and “owl”,relating to Luis posting an owl and wendi wearing an owl.Just a coincidence
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See. I don't think that it IS a coincidence. I think it's Wendi using more code again, like the broken TV "joke".
 
stamplewie said:
Ufferman is a perfect choice for the appeal and if there is an error to be found he will find one. Nonetheless, any error will be found harmless and i predict that Charlie will NOT get a new trial. DOA (Dead on Arrival).
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Another to take the A’s fortune. Did did they ever think they would accumulate wealth to just throw it all away on legal defense? The irony…
 
amicuscurie said:
It is difficult to say whether criminal appeals are normally successful, each one is different, and it would depend on whether the issues raised have merit.

For an appeal to be successful, the appellate court must find that the lower court has made a mistake, and only certain mistakes qualify. Those are the issues the attorney will raise on appeal.

Yes, the attorney gets paid if you lose. He doesn’t get paid a flat fee up front, generally it would be an hourly fee for the drafting of the briefs and responses. If the attorney dies, monies already paid for work already done would not be refunded, I wouldn’t think. You would have to find another attorney to take the appeal over, if that’s what you wanted.

If you lose at the level of the state appellate court, you can try to appeal to the Florida Supreme Court, but higher courts have rules for what they will and will not take up on appeal. They only can take jurisdiction in certain cases, like if there’s a conflict between two lower courts on an issue that you’ve raised or if there’s an issue of Florida constitutional law, for example. It’s not automatic.

If the state Supreme Court doesn’t take it, you may have reached a dead end; in limited circumstances where you raise an issue of federal law (civil rights, for example) you may be able to appeal to a Federal Court and eventually the US Supreme Court, but that’s only in limited circumstances, I’m not sure if Charlie has any federal issues he plans to raise.

As for the sentence, you can appeal an issue related to the conviction itself or related to the sentencing, those are separate proceedings. But in Florida, if you’re sentenced to life, you do life, and murder carries a mandatory life sentence. So, if you’re convicted of murder and the court sentenced you to life, that sentence is not a mistake you can raise on appeal. You can raise issues related to the conviction, but only certain issues of law and evidence.


ETA - any attorneys can correct me if I got any of that wrong, I never said I was a good lawyer, and I don’t do criminal, but I have done appeals.
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Nice summary !

IIRC during the Murdaugh trial, someone quoted a 2% chance of a 1st degree murder verdict being overturned if the defendant had testified. The odds are not good for CA.

But in CA's case, he can try for an evidentiary hearing and stop the appellate process IF he has some evidence to present that might result in his verdict being overturned. That would include other suspects which to me is unlikely in his case.
IMO, more likely would be an appeal on ineffective assistance of counsel and possible other legal issues.
 
LinasK said:
Yes. Katherine probably let her know that "Tuto" meant owl, and that he was the actual shooter. Wendi was signaling them back by wearing the owl shirt- Job well done.
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I know I’m beginning to sound like an owl or some other repetitive animal, (who?) but just HOW were the people in South Florida supposed to SEE that Wendi was wearing an owl shirt, under your theory?
 
amicuscurie said:
I think I remember she did say something about that, maybe in her police interview. Or she may have even said that Harvey and Donna went without her at some point to exchange the kids.


ETa- Dan was going to fly to NY to see Amy the day after the murder.
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Yes she told Det Isom (paraphrasing) she was sad the boys were going w/Dan, after lamenting she had had them for 12 days, how much she misses them and goes to their preschool to have lunch, couldn't take the agony of handing them off, and she "went off with friends" instead, child's birthday, don't duplicate Legos gifts, flipped my hands, cry into my palms, and on and on and on.
The original question from Isom was, "When was the last time you saw Danny?" She went on for 4 minutes. Det Isom was so patient, or he was thinking to himself, (in my best gumshoe impersonation) , "I ain't buyin' what this dame's sellin'.) And, after an exhaustingly 4 minutes of listening to what was quite bizarre...he asks, "So when was the last time you saw Danny?"
I burst out laughing when he said it....and it makes me giggle even now.
 
IQuestion said:
Yes she told Det Isom (paraphrasing) she was sad the boys were going w/Dan, after lamenting she had had them for 12 days, how much she misses them and goes to their preschool to have lunch, couldn't take the agony of handing them off, and she "went off with friends" instead, child's birthday, don't duplicate Legos gifts, flipped my hands, cry into my palms, and on and on and on.
The original question from Isom was, "When was the last time you saw Danny?" She went on for 4 minutes. Det Isom was so patient, or he was thinking to himself, (in my best gumshoe impersonation) , "I ain't buyin' what this dame's sellin'.) And, after an exhaustingly 4 minutes of listening to what was quite bizarre...he asks, "So when was the last time you saw Danny?"
I burst out laughing when he said it....and it makes me giggle even now.
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She is exhausting and unconvincing. JMO.
 
amicuscurie said:
I know I’m beginning to sound like an owl or some other repetitive animal, (who?) but just HOW were the people in South Florida supposed to SEE that Wendi was wearing an owl shirt, under your theory?
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Didn't someone here mention that Wendi texted them a selfie of her in the shirt?
 
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