FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #21

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Published: 11/16/2023
''I really encourage you all to listen to my interview with former Deputy DA John Lewin. He prosecutor, I think, I think he's still a deputy da, he's just not in cold cases, he's been demoted thanks to speaking out against George Gascons pro criminal policies. But listen to him. He's never lost a cold case. He tries the hardest cases, the cases where the defense is arguing that the person isn't even deceased, that's they're still walking around somewhere. It's, you have to, what he said is you have to really recreate the whole story for the jury so they can see the significance of the owl shirt that an owl was put up by the shooter on his Facebook after the hit was done and Katie told them to take it down and that his nickname means al one of the shooters.
6
01:05:07
Of course, she shows up in an al shirt after buying bullet bourbon for a stock, the bar party, all these little things add up for a jury. It's, it's, that's why circumstantial evidence is such good evidence. It's because it all interconnects and it's very hard to defend it. So maybe you can defend and make up a story for one piece. But look at Charlie's trial. He thought he had a great all encompassing theory to put out for the jury the truth. He kept saying, this is the truth.''

 

[cottonweaver]

Curiosity got the better of me and just had a look.
Appears that, yes, Charlie lied to mom and dad on that jail call about only dating B for the ' 6 weeks' before we broke up and she then discovered she was pregnant

Paternity & Child Support Lawsuit v. Charlie Adelson​

Filed in March 2019 ( Suit was settled in 2022, so case dragged on for two years. Paternity part was established by the court in May 2020. CA arrested April 2022. Asian American Legal Focus )

B claimed in the suit:
'paternity facts ....the mother and respondent engaged in sexual intercourse during the time period between january 2017 to november 2018.'
child born Dec 2017.
the parties have resided together with the minor child.
prior to november 2018 the minor child resided with the mother and father at Whale Harbour Lane.
...

the rest of the lawsuit is pretty damning too, it makes for very sad reading considering what has since happened and since he's claiming to Donna on that same jail call ' I only ever wanted to be a Dad'
The man's a disgrace ( DM me if you want the link for the rest but can't find it)

 

[Misy]

Totally off topic with apologies but I just watched Andrea Sneidermans testimony in Hemy Newman trial. She reminds me of WA (lying constantly). WA is more controlled and frankly scary. Andrea S gets sooo snarky tho. (and her friend Shana Citron’s testimony is crazy interesting). Anyway the reason I watched this again is because I saw something somewhere that there might be some new charges (a new trial?) for Andrea but I can’t find anything new now. Does anyone know? I posted on the AS thread but it’s so old (the thread) I doubt if anyone will see it. I guess there’s my answer…? TIA

 

[fabvab]

Curiosity got the better of me and just had a look.
Appears that, yes, Charlie lied to mom and dad on that jail call about only dating B for the ' 6 weeks' before we broke up and she then discovered she was pregnant

Paternity & Child Support Lawsuit v. Charlie Adelson​

Filed in March 2019 ( Suit was settled in 2022, so case dragged on for two years. Paternity part was established by the court in May 2020. CA arrested April 2022. Asian American Legal Focus )

B claimed in the suit:
'paternity facts ....the mother and respondent engaged in sexual intercourse during the time period between january 2017 to november 2018.'
child born Dec 2017.
the parties have resided together with the minor child.
prior to november 2018 the minor child resided with the mother and father at Whale Harbour Lane.
...

the rest of the lawsuit is pretty damning too, it makes for very sad reading considering what has since happened and since he's claiming to Donna on that same jail call ' I only ever wanted to be a Dad'
The man's a disgrace ( DM me if you want the link for the rest but can't find it)

CA’s jail phone conversation with Bri right after conviction proved to me he is only concerned for himself and the things he will miss due to being incarcerated. Next to nothing about all of his son’s milestones he will miss out on.

 

[amicuscurie]

Curiosity got the better of me and just had a look.
Appears that, yes, Charlie lied to mom and dad on that jail call about only dating B for the ' 6 weeks' before we broke up and she then discovered she was pregnant

Paternity & Child Support Lawsuit v. Charlie Adelson​

Filed in March 2019 ( Suit was settled in 2022, so case dragged on for two years. Paternity part was established by the court in May 2020. CA arrested April 2022. Asian American Legal Focus )

B claimed in the suit:
'paternity facts ....the mother and respondent engaged in sexual intercourse during the time period between january 2017 to november 2018.'
child born Dec 2017.
the parties have resided together with the minor child.
prior to november 2018 the minor child resided with the mother and father at Whale Harbour Lane.
...

the rest of the lawsuit is pretty damning too, it makes for very sad reading considering what has since happened and since he's claiming to Donna on that same jail call ' I only ever wanted to be a Dad'
The man's a disgrace ( DM me if you want the link for the rest but can't find it)

Are we absolutely certain he’s not saying “I NEVER wanted to be a dad?” The automatic transcripts of these calls are not reliable, and the exact words can be hard to hear.

 

[Knitpicker]

absolutely. I posted his 6 week claim, 2 pages back here

FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen *4 Guilty* #21

Interesting that CA has chosen a Tallahassee appellant lawyer who went to law school at FSU. Florida Criminal Appeals Attorney- Michael Ufferman Law Firm, P.A.. ..the fact he is Jewish is probably very important to the Adelsons. Not that anything’s wrong with that.Its just interesting,

www.websleuths.com

but because it's Charlie I added the caveat that he's a prolific liar.
Just cause the calls make me wonder which facts he's re-writing and how he compartmentalises everybody, re-versioning and withholding for each recipient, especially his ambiguous relationships with women.
Less Maestro and more The Tailor

It's a while since I listened to Judy from AA Legal Focus's read out of B's litigation but anybody else interested in B's 2019 view of their relationship & her struggles to get him to support their son might find more details in that episode

ETA - I have just had a look at B's old lawsuit and added a snippet in the next WS post

In all seriousness, she was a young girl who was a victim. I don’t fault her. At least he/and Donna have $ to give her to raise her kid without financial worries

 

[Knitpicker]

Are we absolutely certain he’s not saying “I NEVER wanted to be a dad?” The automatic transcripts of these calls are not reliable, and the exact words can be hard to hear.

So, almost 2 years?

 

[cottonweaver]

Are we absolutely certain he’s not saying “I NEVER wanted to be a dad?” The automatic transcripts of these calls are not reliable, and the exact words can be hard to hear.

Have a listen and see what you think.
IIRC it was right at the beginning of the tape

GUILTY - FL - FSU Law Professor Dan Markel Murdered by Hitmen #21

Ugh almost hate to ask, but I want to see who asks & expression. Was it KM's 1st trial, 2nd, or CA's? Anybody remember off hand? I don’t really remember, but I think she’s been asked, by the state, about this photo at all 3 trials. If I recall correctly, Georgia asked her about it at Charlie’s...

www.websleuths.com

 

[amicuscurie]

So, almost 2 years?

He’s saying this now. In my opinion, “I never wanted to be a dad” is more consistent with his current position of “we were together six weeks and she got pregnant.” I am not sure he always wanted to be a dad.

 

[ch_13]

He’s saying this now. In my opinion, “I never wanted to be a dad” is more consistent with his current position of “we were together six weeks and she got pregnant.” I am not sure he always wanted to be a dad.

After listening to the audio, I think he is indeed saying that he always wanted to be a dad, although his actions in withholding child support belie his words.

Whether he's claiming that now because he's latching on to something while incarcerated, or because he's telling his parents what they want to hear, or this is for public consumption and he believes it will help his case, I don't know. Maybe all three.

 

[amicuscurie]

After listening to the audio, I think he is indeed saying that he always wanted to be a dad, although his actions in withholding child support belie his words.

Whether he's claiming that now because he's latching on to something while incarcerated, or because he's telling his parents what they want to hear, or this is for public consumption and he believes it will help his case, I don't know. Maybe all three.

Good point

 

[LinasK]

The whole idea that Wendi was secretly communicating with Katie or the hitmen just doesn't make sense to me. They knew that Wendi would immediately be considered a suspect in Dan's murder. The scheme depended on having enough separation between her and the actual killers so the police wouldn't be able to connect the dots. It was always Wendi <-> Charlie <-> Katie <-> Sigfredo <-> Luis. Each person only communicated with the next link in the chain.

Even with a burner phone, it would have simply been too dangerous for Wendi to have direct communications with anyone except for Charlie (or Donna). If the police traced the burner it would have been all over for her.

But there are photos of Wendi and Katie together.

 

[LinasK]

I swore I'd not mention owls ever again but I don't want to be taken as rude for not replying

thanks for the Timestamp to the video.
Yes Joel is reading out a question from viewer called Al - Tuto the Greek word for owl. ( But it actually isn't, unless you're either living 6th Century BCE Greece or have very niche specialist knowledge base. AFAIK Sig, Katie and Wendi are all more familiar with Hispanic languages. You can look up the definitions for Tuto among Hispanic languages)

Anyway, Karm starts laughing and says ' this is coming from somebody from their basement' and Joel says Karm will now get hate mail, Georgia smiles and said she can't really comment but - imo - she throws him a bone saying she noticed the T shirt Wendi was wearing.

Do you know if Georgia ever made the argument in court that Wendi wore a T shirt as a code for Luis's deleted Instagram post or Sig? I don't recall it.

BTW I'd love it if more new details were discovered about any KM & WA planning pre murder

Wendi doesn't have to be fluent in Greek for this to work, although she could have studied Greek in college for all we know... All she needs to know is that Katie and the hitmen believe that "Tuto" means owl, and that it's the nickname of the trigger man.

 

[B4igo2it]

CA doesn't know his sister like we do. IMO, he is in for a rude awakening. Will his prison reading list include WA's book?

 

[amicuscurie]

But there are photos of Wendi and Katie together.

There is one photo. Singular.

If I recall correctly both women have testified that that is one of only two times they met, and the only time they hung out together without Charlie.

 

[ch_13]

But there are photos of Wendi and Katie together.

There's only one photo, I believe. And it only came to light years after the murder after they had arrested Sigfredo and Luis and were working backwards to connect them to the Adelsons. Also, the cops already learned from Jeffrey Lacasse that Wendi and Katie knew each other. But Wendi knew a lot of people. So, that in itself wasn't the issue.

My point was that if the cops could prove that Wendi and Katie were conversing around the time of the murder, it would have been easy to follow the trail to Katie's on-again, off-again boyfriend and his Latin King best friend. And it would be pretty definitive evidence that Wendi was aware of the hit.

But yeah, allowing someone to take that photo was an unforced error on Wendi's part.

 

[fabvab]

There is one photo. Singular.

If I recall correctly both women have testified that that is one of only two times they met, and the only time they hung out together without Charlie.

Katie does not seem like someone Wendi would choose to hang out with unless Charlie was also there.

Wendi and Charlie seem alike in that they both seem very social and like to date a lot of different people. Charlie went for young ones of a particular ethnicity while Wendi Wendy went for educated and/or wealthy. I’m thinking Wendi was similar to Charlie and probably was not the marrying type. This is my opinion because Wendi appeared to date a lot which is difficult when you are single with 2 toddlers. Basing this on testimonies, etc.

oh yeah…and both siblings lie, use other people, etc.

 

[LinasK]

There is one photo. Singular.

If I recall correctly both women have testified that that is one of only two times they met, and the only time they hung out together without Charlie.

Unless we know what they discussed, this could have been when they discussed "Tuto"/the owl. It's not like they didn't know each other.

 

[fabvab]

Unless we know what they discussed, this could have been when they discussed "Tuto"/the owl. It's not like they didn't know each other.

And Wendi educated her to the meaning of Tuto in the Greek language…

 

[clearskies1]

Owl shirt -- quiet solidarity with the Team? I have no idea, but who knows? JMO.