AzPistonsGirl
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I read along but don't weigh in. However, I recall the unidentified sweater in the hamper as well.
FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #11
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geojeffrey
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I'll see if I can find a link to MSM
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geojeffrey
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I haven't yet found anything on MSM about this--but it is referenced on a true crime blog..
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rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
If that's the source then I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Makes no sense to me anyway. Not reported in paper? Unidentified? I would think there would be hair on a sweater. Hamper? Is a sweater washable? A group of guys were in her condo for the weekend, it wouldn't be out of the question that an article of clothing was left behind, but by same token it would be "identified" by her brother and friends. "Unidentified" is all spooky and how'd that get in there and why is it a secret and how can you not find mitochondrial DNA in hair on the sweater and is this the owner of the sweater who took a shower and how did you know who find out about it and no one else and on and on.
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
A number of events have occurred which has prompted me to set aside two time critical personal projects temporarily to elaborate on the Jennifer Kesse POI analysis.
- A large number of people are taking looks at the POI web page to little effect. After nine years and 45,000 views, looked at by dozens as recently as a month ago, either people are exceedingly more bashful than I had thought, or they don't understand the impact of what is on display. I am going to guess that I am not making it clear enough what they should do when they get to the page, what they are seeing, and what it means. I will rectify that.
- I spent so much time on these images in 2007 that I knew them backwards and forwards, the work was done, the analysis posted, nothing else I could do except retire and become a PI if I were to make any more progress on this case, but I retired from crime blogging. I had deferred software development to follow the Chandra Levy case, and then Laci Peterson in Modesto disappeared, and women disappearing consumed my time for years.
But there were many excellent people doing the job and I needed to move on to my original goals, although I continue to work the Chandra Levy case, now on second trial of wrong person. So Jennifer's POI pictures were on display for years without much attention from me. But it's not effective, and if the image work is to make a difference it needs my attention.
- The years have gone by, and technology has changed. What were surveillance cameras like in 2005 and into early 2006? Cell phones? Computers and monitors? The changes are having an impact. We have to try to remember whether we turned cell phones off at night to charge them in their cradles (I think I remember I could leave mine on while it charged, but also switched batteries while other one charged?).
Looking at surveillance camera specs now has little that was available in 2005. Analog to digital, VCR to DVR, lens to megapixel, manual setings to automatic, dumb to software enhancements. How can we analyze the surveillance camera behavior without a historic manual of some unknown make and model with unknown settings?
And computer monitors. I did my work on a back breaking 19" CRT monitor that I used similar models of for 20 years. And then LCD happened, and that's what came with my new computers when old ones broke, and my CRT died at some point, and now I find that these things aren't even made anymore. LCD monitors have a better display in many ways, but I doubt that I could have done this work on today's monitors. They're good enough, even insightful from a different viewpoint of the images, but that 52 pound cathode ray tube is doing something that LCD displays don't do. So I went out and found one and have it set up where I did my original work. I used to be able to see the texture of the POI's hair extending below the bike helmet, and the bubbly pattern on the POI's shoes, and beveled edges where the holster attached to the belt. LCD is close enough, but I need to see the texture that I used to see.
- As I revisited these thoughts of Jennifer Kesse's diaappearance and the surveillance images we have to work with, I noticed something in a news image of a police officer. I am always looking for anything that looks familiar in images of police officers and security guards that I come across, mostly in news. Anyway led to some new thoughts which I will be posting about over next few days.
rd
- A large number of people are taking looks at the POI web page to little effect. After nine years and 45,000 views, looked at by dozens as recently as a month ago, either people are exceedingly more bashful than I had thought, or they don't understand the impact of what is on display. I am going to guess that I am not making it clear enough what they should do when they get to the page, what they are seeing, and what it means. I will rectify that.
- I spent so much time on these images in 2007 that I knew them backwards and forwards, the work was done, the analysis posted, nothing else I could do except retire and become a PI if I were to make any more progress on this case, but I retired from crime blogging. I had deferred software development to follow the Chandra Levy case, and then Laci Peterson in Modesto disappeared, and women disappearing consumed my time for years.
But there were many excellent people doing the job and I needed to move on to my original goals, although I continue to work the Chandra Levy case, now on second trial of wrong person. So Jennifer's POI pictures were on display for years without much attention from me. But it's not effective, and if the image work is to make a difference it needs my attention.
- The years have gone by, and technology has changed. What were surveillance cameras like in 2005 and into early 2006? Cell phones? Computers and monitors? The changes are having an impact. We have to try to remember whether we turned cell phones off at night to charge them in their cradles (I think I remember I could leave mine on while it charged, but also switched batteries while other one charged?).
Looking at surveillance camera specs now has little that was available in 2005. Analog to digital, VCR to DVR, lens to megapixel, manual setings to automatic, dumb to software enhancements. How can we analyze the surveillance camera behavior without a historic manual of some unknown make and model with unknown settings?
And computer monitors. I did my work on a back breaking 19" CRT monitor that I used similar models of for 20 years. And then LCD happened, and that's what came with my new computers when old ones broke, and my CRT died at some point, and now I find that these things aren't even made anymore. LCD monitors have a better display in many ways, but I doubt that I could have done this work on today's monitors. They're good enough, even insightful from a different viewpoint of the images, but that 52 pound cathode ray tube is doing something that LCD displays don't do. So I went out and found one and have it set up where I did my original work. I used to be able to see the texture of the POI's hair extending below the bike helmet, and the bubbly pattern on the POI's shoes, and beveled edges where the holster attached to the belt. LCD is close enough, but I need to see the texture that I used to see.
- As I revisited these thoughts of Jennifer Kesse's diaappearance and the surveillance images we have to work with, I noticed something in a news image of a police officer. I am always looking for anything that looks familiar in images of police officers and security guards that I come across, mostly in news. Anyway led to some new thoughts which I will be posting about over next few days.
rd
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
Some fundamentals of the images that mislead observers
- Washed out colors
People look at the images and see light colored clothes, what looks to me like a white tshirt and khaki pants, although the vast majority of comments I've read are about a painter or cook.
Early on the Orlando police were at the scene and looked at the camera and were quoted:
At first, police thought he was wearing light-colored clothing. But then crime scene investigators working with the surveillance camera noticed their own dark uniforms also appeared light.
"That kind of concerned them and they started looking a bit more at that camera," explained Sgt. Barbara Jones, Orlando Police Department."
Dark police uniforms appeared light. This is significant when the POI is equipped as a law enforcement officer. But pointing out that the Orlando police found their own uniforms to appear light in the camera has done very little good over the years. People still talk about painters and light clothes.
So I decided to do some more research on this. I was willing years ago to buy a model of the surveillance camera and conduct tests if I was able to determine the model of camera and the settings, but I never did see that info. And ten years have passed. But I did next best thing and googled.
I don't know the camera make model and settings, but I know it was an outdoor 24 hour surveillance camera and therefore needed to be able to record in low light conditions at night. I googled those conditions.
What I found is that low light recording uses infrared (IR) light, invisible to human eye. And cameras block infrared during daylight or else, guess what, colors are washed out.
Now either this camera had no infrared block filter for daylight or the physical switch mechanism didn't work, but it appears this 24 hour camera was receiving IR light that washed out the image. The images are black and white and colors show as gray but we talk about washing out colors, or washing out the image.
I googled some more on that and found this very illustrative side by side comparison, don't want to bring undue attention to the poster but this is exactly what I was looking for:
Note that all colors are washed out, the clothes washed out light. In fact, there is a dark sweater that I can't even make out in a normal color image against the background, but the IR washing out the colors shows the perfect image of the draped sweater over the chair. While that's a side note, the point here is that look how dark clothing (law enforcement uniform) appears light. That is not a painter's overall, that is dark clothing washed out by infrared light, in this example a surveillance camera that has no block for infrared. That was the point of the comparison, and very helpful to us.
Lastly, google those conditions (IR washed out colors), you will see a page with this image, and further down the page you will see a similar comparison to an outdoor shot of trees, bushes, etc. Note the washed out colors of the foliage. Now take a look at the POI images. (They are the first two images on my web page, or view whereever you look at them.) Note the top of the hedges and the palm tree. They are washed out in the same manner as the IR wash out image of foliage displayed on that page.
While the images give us important clues, they are not true shades of black and white images. Consider the dark clothing over that chair as law enforcement uniform on this POI, and let's continue this analysis.
More oddities to come.
rd
- Washed out colors
People look at the images and see light colored clothes, what looks to me like a white tshirt and khaki pants, although the vast majority of comments I've read are about a painter or cook.
Early on the Orlando police were at the scene and looked at the camera and were quoted:
At first, police thought he was wearing light-colored clothing. But then crime scene investigators working with the surveillance camera noticed their own dark uniforms also appeared light.
"That kind of concerned them and they started looking a bit more at that camera," explained Sgt. Barbara Jones, Orlando Police Department."
Dark police uniforms appeared light. This is significant when the POI is equipped as a law enforcement officer. But pointing out that the Orlando police found their own uniforms to appear light in the camera has done very little good over the years. People still talk about painters and light clothes.
So I decided to do some more research on this. I was willing years ago to buy a model of the surveillance camera and conduct tests if I was able to determine the model of camera and the settings, but I never did see that info. And ten years have passed. But I did next best thing and googled.
I don't know the camera make model and settings, but I know it was an outdoor 24 hour surveillance camera and therefore needed to be able to record in low light conditions at night. I googled those conditions.
What I found is that low light recording uses infrared (IR) light, invisible to human eye. And cameras block infrared during daylight or else, guess what, colors are washed out.
Now either this camera had no infrared block filter for daylight or the physical switch mechanism didn't work, but it appears this 24 hour camera was receiving IR light that washed out the image. The images are black and white and colors show as gray but we talk about washing out colors, or washing out the image.
I googled some more on that and found this very illustrative side by side comparison, don't want to bring undue attention to the poster but this is exactly what I was looking for:
Note that all colors are washed out, the clothes washed out light. In fact, there is a dark sweater that I can't even make out in a normal color image against the background, but the IR washing out the colors shows the perfect image of the draped sweater over the chair. While that's a side note, the point here is that look how dark clothing (law enforcement uniform) appears light. That is not a painter's overall, that is dark clothing washed out by infrared light, in this example a surveillance camera that has no block for infrared. That was the point of the comparison, and very helpful to us.
Lastly, google those conditions (IR washed out colors), you will see a page with this image, and further down the page you will see a similar comparison to an outdoor shot of trees, bushes, etc. Note the washed out colors of the foliage. Now take a look at the POI images. (They are the first two images on my web page, or view whereever you look at them.) Note the top of the hedges and the palm tree. They are washed out in the same manner as the IR wash out image of foliage displayed on that page.
While the images give us important clues, they are not true shades of black and white images. Consider the dark clothing over that chair as law enforcement uniform on this POI, and let's continue this analysis.
More oddities to come.
rd
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
Some fundamentals of the images that mislead observers
- Time lapse
Based on image time stamps and distance covered by poi between each image, this looks to be about 1 frame per second. From my research several years ago, movement can blur during the time lapse. One oddity I found was a hand in still one clenching a small object but the hand is set back further from the body than looks natural. I also believe there's some blurring of a shoulder patch in that same still. These are not instant snapshots.
- Distortion
The clown shoes were the first giveaway. But the whole lower half of the poi's body is out of proportion to upper half. The focus if you will or enlagement distortion starts just below the gate lock. The poi's duty belt can be seen through the lock but it's difficult to accept as his waist due to the distorted lower body. I believe this is also seen in still 3 where poi is standing partially behind tree and police/dod badge on chest is blown up out of proportion.
- Height of poi
Due to distortion the height of poi has been grossly underestimated. In still 3 the poi is standing next to a tree. I stood next to that tree and that tree isn't short enough for poi to be 5'4 or whatever. There has been much discussion and I think everyone but Orlando police believe poi is about medium hight, 5'9 to 5'11. The height I believe they got from their spokeswoman who they placed out there and said yeah, that's about right. Also, some people say FBI determined this, they did not, they confirmed that Orlando police description of what they did was valid.
- POI Back hump
Due to some combination of movement blurring and focus distortion, the poi's back appears to be unnaturally large, as in a hump. While there is clearly some strap / connector / webbing gear on back possibly supporting a vertical tubular bag which I have tried to place as a baton or flashlight previously, again I believe the image of the back is not directly proportional but is distorted.
- Ring around neck and black on poi's chin in still 3
I recently saw a picture in the news of a swat type policeman with strap on chin and straps going around neck as I thought was indicated in poi image. But the poi had a back of helmet that is like a bike helmet, not a military type helmet. And I came to the conclusion these are mutually incompatible. Every bike helmet is strap under chin and straps run up to the helmet. The dark spot on the poi's chin in still 3 I now believe to be one of a pattern of dark spots in the image on a vertical row that such happens to be placed over his face. The ring around his neck with white area seen between the ring and his hair (and what looks to be a snap connector of some sort on back of his neck) I could only guess at, previously I have said I thought it was part of his chin strap but couldn't find anything that looked like it with bike helmets. It doesn't point toward or away from anything at this point and most people attribute to shadows.
- POI's "arm"
At a glance it looks like the poi is marching or a gangbanger walking with arm extended back and down, which helped support the short Latino gangbanger with a do thing the police seemed to have settled on early on because well, it's pretty convenient and who has time to examine images in depth anyway. However, the "arm" is an optical illusion. It is actually the vertical bag hanging from some strapping gear on his back. Looking carefully at the bag, or what I have previously thought might be a baton or flashlight, the tube is perfectly cylindrical with no texture and nothing on the end where a hand would be. His holster is empty, I believe his hands are in front of him and he is dealing with his taser or weapon based on the out of position hand grasping a weapon size object in still 1, but that's just a guess. There's actually a straight black line between the bag and strapping gear above it and this makes it look like a short sleeve shirt and arm extended way back and straight down. A lot of bias from illusion then is applied to what the poi is. What should be applied is that the poi has a strap down hiolster and is carrying some gear of some kind, has some law enforcment type insignia seen, enough so that this is someone dressed as armed security.
That sums up the misleading aspects of the images. I will next sum up what's found but has characteristics that I can't match to a picture of equipment.
rd
- Time lapse
Based on image time stamps and distance covered by poi between each image, this looks to be about 1 frame per second. From my research several years ago, movement can blur during the time lapse. One oddity I found was a hand in still one clenching a small object but the hand is set back further from the body than looks natural. I also believe there's some blurring of a shoulder patch in that same still. These are not instant snapshots.
- Distortion
The clown shoes were the first giveaway. But the whole lower half of the poi's body is out of proportion to upper half. The focus if you will or enlagement distortion starts just below the gate lock. The poi's duty belt can be seen through the lock but it's difficult to accept as his waist due to the distorted lower body. I believe this is also seen in still 3 where poi is standing partially behind tree and police/dod badge on chest is blown up out of proportion.
- Height of poi
Due to distortion the height of poi has been grossly underestimated. In still 3 the poi is standing next to a tree. I stood next to that tree and that tree isn't short enough for poi to be 5'4 or whatever. There has been much discussion and I think everyone but Orlando police believe poi is about medium hight, 5'9 to 5'11. The height I believe they got from their spokeswoman who they placed out there and said yeah, that's about right. Also, some people say FBI determined this, they did not, they confirmed that Orlando police description of what they did was valid.
- POI Back hump
Due to some combination of movement blurring and focus distortion, the poi's back appears to be unnaturally large, as in a hump. While there is clearly some strap / connector / webbing gear on back possibly supporting a vertical tubular bag which I have tried to place as a baton or flashlight previously, again I believe the image of the back is not directly proportional but is distorted.
- Ring around neck and black on poi's chin in still 3
I recently saw a picture in the news of a swat type policeman with strap on chin and straps going around neck as I thought was indicated in poi image. But the poi had a back of helmet that is like a bike helmet, not a military type helmet. And I came to the conclusion these are mutually incompatible. Every bike helmet is strap under chin and straps run up to the helmet. The dark spot on the poi's chin in still 3 I now believe to be one of a pattern of dark spots in the image on a vertical row that such happens to be placed over his face. The ring around his neck with white area seen between the ring and his hair (and what looks to be a snap connector of some sort on back of his neck) I could only guess at, previously I have said I thought it was part of his chin strap but couldn't find anything that looked like it with bike helmets. It doesn't point toward or away from anything at this point and most people attribute to shadows.
- POI's "arm"
At a glance it looks like the poi is marching or a gangbanger walking with arm extended back and down, which helped support the short Latino gangbanger with a do thing the police seemed to have settled on early on because well, it's pretty convenient and who has time to examine images in depth anyway. However, the "arm" is an optical illusion. It is actually the vertical bag hanging from some strapping gear on his back. Looking carefully at the bag, or what I have previously thought might be a baton or flashlight, the tube is perfectly cylindrical with no texture and nothing on the end where a hand would be. His holster is empty, I believe his hands are in front of him and he is dealing with his taser or weapon based on the out of position hand grasping a weapon size object in still 1, but that's just a guess. There's actually a straight black line between the bag and strapping gear above it and this makes it look like a short sleeve shirt and arm extended way back and straight down. A lot of bias from illusion then is applied to what the poi is. What should be applied is that the poi has a strap down hiolster and is carrying some gear of some kind, has some law enforcment type insignia seen, enough so that this is someone dressed as armed security.
That sums up the misleading aspects of the images. I will next sum up what's found but has characteristics that I can't match to a picture of equipment.
rd
Thank for the explanation about the colors.
This really make sense .
I think there is a possibility all happened outside somewhere. Jennifer on her way to work was stopped by a police officer.
There is no witness,no one had seen or heard anything.
No one saw her car leaving the compex that morning.
This really make sense .
I think there is a possibility all happened outside somewhere. Jennifer on her way to work was stopped by a police officer.
There is no witness,no one had seen or heard anything.
No one saw her car leaving the compex that morning.
Sometimes I wonder if the POI is still alive. It has been over ten years since Jennifer disappeared after all.
A lot can happen in a decade.
I seriously doubt this crime can be solved. A totally inept investigation during the first forty eight hours ensured this.
A lot can happen in a decade.
I seriously doubt this crime can be solved. A totally inept investigation during the first forty eight hours ensured this.
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
A lot can happen in 10 years, that's for sure myserty. Certainly I thought my claims would be refuted or acted upon 9 years ago. I didn't even look at the pictures for a year because I thought something would come out of them before that.
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
@shelly, in reviewing some of what I wrote on this while making these posts, as I understood it in beginning was that Jennifer did not answer an early morning (6:30ish?) call from her boyfriend that she answered EVERY morning prior to disappearing. Now I have a vague recollection that some have said that she and her b/f wouldn't be conversing until on her drive to work but that wasn't my take from an interview with b/f. If he did not in fact place a call prior to her going to work that day then I'm not sure what misled me in the interview.
If either one of them routinely placed a call early in morning and it wasn't placed or no connection then to me that says she was already abducted. This independent of info about the phones being disabled late previous evening.
If either one of them routinely placed a call early in morning and it wasn't placed or no connection then to me that says she was already abducted. This independent of info about the phones being disabled late previous evening.
Rd_jfc
When jennifer went to her home Tuesday night it was after vacation and we know she went to work straight from her boyfriend 's house and it was her first night at home since the week before so most likely there was no food in the house.Her brother and friends cleaned the apt. and they would throw away any food leftover, so maybe after talking to Rob at 10 pm at night she felt hungry and decided to go outside to grab something to eat, I know when I am hungry at night I take my car and drive to a fast food restaurant,when she drove at night someone pretend to be a policeman stopped her and at around that time the phones were disabled.
Or the other possibility is that on Tuesday morning, Jennifer left a little earlierand that is why she and Rob didn't talk yet in the morning, she had a big meeting and she needed to prepare herself especially after missing few days at work ,and someone stopped her early morning and killed her.
When jennifer went to her home Tuesday night it was after vacation and we know she went to work straight from her boyfriend 's house and it was her first night at home since the week before so most likely there was no food in the house.Her brother and friends cleaned the apt. and they would throw away any food leftover, so maybe after talking to Rob at 10 pm at night she felt hungry and decided to go outside to grab something to eat, I know when I am hungry at night I take my car and drive to a fast food restaurant,when she drove at night someone pretend to be a policeman stopped her and at around that time the phones were disabled.
Or the other possibility is that on Tuesday morning, Jennifer left a little earlierand that is why she and Rob didn't talk yet in the morning, she had a big meeting and she needed to prepare herself especially after missing few days at work ,and someone stopped her early morning and killed her.
rd_jfc
Well-Known Member
"...someone pretend to be a policeman stopped her and at around that time the phones were disabled."
I don't have any good ideas, but I do know there's not much that makes sense so still probing and hope.
Concerning the relatively recent info that both phones were turned off and batteries removed, I googled just now asking what cell phones ping towers while turned off. The answer was none. I just do not believe the police / phone company know that the batteries were taken out in addition to being powered off. I think there is some miscommunication there and perhaps an overabundance of saying the phone was completely powered off (versus screen dark but pinging).
In any event, that is 1000x more info than was given in the beginning where I did not see any info on presence or absence of knowledge of ping records being obtained. The time given in recent info for powered off was I saw 10:20 or possibly 10:40, and this is shortly after concluding her phone call with Rob.
I think it's reasonable that she was getting friend's phone and turning off to save battery until it arrived back to owner. I think after concluding her late \evening phone calls that she would be putting her phone on charger. I would be surprised if she routinely slept at night with her cell phone turned off unless she had a landline that family / friends could call at night in an emergency, I didn't see anything on it early on. By turning it off it would charge faster and then maybe she turned it on when going to bed. This is something Rob and family know, probably several posters have talked about it.
I do not think it's reasonable that someone gained entrance to her condo within minutes of hanging up, subdued her, and acquired both her phone and another phone in the condo and removed the batteries. That wouldn't even be an issue until leaving, and there would be no reason to bring the other phone. Nor a good reason to bring hers which required battery be removed (to be sure it's powered off).
Although I originally thought she went out to deal with sending phone (and police also initially suggested that), I do not think it's possible that she left with her phone powered off. If she was overpowered in her parking lot there could be a relatively short time between the two phones being powered off, her turning off the friend's phone and someone else turning off her phone. Since the phone company apparently had ping records for police to be able to say this, they would know how far apart in time the phones were powered off.
It is not a big deal that the phone pings were recorded from more than one tower. This happens, this is pretty standard stuff and nothing of interest I need to google to refresh my memory, but it doesn't mean two places at same time. It means the phone (one or the other or both) switched tower it was talking to to another tower within range and then switched back.
It's reasonably possible she drove 15 minutes or so to get to an overnight delivery store and was assaulted in a parking lot at which time her phone would have been disabled. I did a search back then and there was a 24 hour store (FedEx type) about that distance away. Someone has posted that she would have sent from work and we had an in depth discussion on that here back then. I have never seen that and would ask (1) had she sent overnights from work before?, and (2) what account would it be sent on? The company's, and she paid them so they could apply to bill, or how did that work since it was said she had sent packages that way before and that's how she would have sent the phone.
I do not think it's reasonable that armed security wearing clothes like the poi (including helmet clothes more or less consistent with bike patrol) would stop a car or somehow order someone to pull over. On other hand I don't know that he was dressed that way when abducting Jennifer, could have been like most LE imposters and had a flashing light in car and pulled her over. He could have dressed as bike security for purpose of dumping car somewhere that pointed toward other people and away from him, ie a nearby to Jennifer apartment parking lot.
It's also possible that he wasn't the abductor and was duped to park a car and doesn't know people are looking for him, of course no one knows, they're looking for a 5'4 illegal laborer who fled the country so that hardly is going to get a security guard's attention that it's really him being looked for. They'd have to read pretty deep in this thread to know.
rd
I don't have any good ideas, but I do know there's not much that makes sense so still probing and hope.
Concerning the relatively recent info that both phones were turned off and batteries removed, I googled just now asking what cell phones ping towers while turned off. The answer was none. I just do not believe the police / phone company know that the batteries were taken out in addition to being powered off. I think there is some miscommunication there and perhaps an overabundance of saying the phone was completely powered off (versus screen dark but pinging).
In any event, that is 1000x more info than was given in the beginning where I did not see any info on presence or absence of knowledge of ping records being obtained. The time given in recent info for powered off was I saw 10:20 or possibly 10:40, and this is shortly after concluding her phone call with Rob.
I think it's reasonable that she was getting friend's phone and turning off to save battery until it arrived back to owner. I think after concluding her late \evening phone calls that she would be putting her phone on charger. I would be surprised if she routinely slept at night with her cell phone turned off unless she had a landline that family / friends could call at night in an emergency, I didn't see anything on it early on. By turning it off it would charge faster and then maybe she turned it on when going to bed. This is something Rob and family know, probably several posters have talked about it.
I do not think it's reasonable that someone gained entrance to her condo within minutes of hanging up, subdued her, and acquired both her phone and another phone in the condo and removed the batteries. That wouldn't even be an issue until leaving, and there would be no reason to bring the other phone. Nor a good reason to bring hers which required battery be removed (to be sure it's powered off).
Although I originally thought she went out to deal with sending phone (and police also initially suggested that), I do not think it's possible that she left with her phone powered off. If she was overpowered in her parking lot there could be a relatively short time between the two phones being powered off, her turning off the friend's phone and someone else turning off her phone. Since the phone company apparently had ping records for police to be able to say this, they would know how far apart in time the phones were powered off.
It is not a big deal that the phone pings were recorded from more than one tower. This happens, this is pretty standard stuff and nothing of interest I need to google to refresh my memory, but it doesn't mean two places at same time. It means the phone (one or the other or both) switched tower it was talking to to another tower within range and then switched back.
It's reasonably possible she drove 15 minutes or so to get to an overnight delivery store and was assaulted in a parking lot at which time her phone would have been disabled. I did a search back then and there was a 24 hour store (FedEx type) about that distance away. Someone has posted that she would have sent from work and we had an in depth discussion on that here back then. I have never seen that and would ask (1) had she sent overnights from work before?, and (2) what account would it be sent on? The company's, and she paid them so they could apply to bill, or how did that work since it was said she had sent packages that way before and that's how she would have sent the phone.
I do not think it's reasonable that armed security wearing clothes like the poi (including helmet clothes more or less consistent with bike patrol) would stop a car or somehow order someone to pull over. On other hand I don't know that he was dressed that way when abducting Jennifer, could have been like most LE imposters and had a flashing light in car and pulled her over. He could have dressed as bike security for purpose of dumping car somewhere that pointed toward other people and away from him, ie a nearby to Jennifer apartment parking lot.
It's also possible that he wasn't the abductor and was duped to park a car and doesn't know people are looking for him, of course no one knows, they're looking for a 5'4 illegal laborer who fled the country so that hardly is going to get a security guard's attention that it's really him being looked for. They'd have to read pretty deep in this thread to know.
rd
Gingerduhh
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I have a question or two, it could have been answered some where along the way. So, apologies for a repeat.
Who was the friend of Logans that left his phone at Jenn's?
How far away was he that night/morning? Verified?
Is it possible he went back for his phone??
Who was the friend of Logans that left his phone at Jenn's?
How far away was he that night/morning? Verified?
Is it possible he went back for his phone??
pittsburghgirl
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Good questions. And even if there were answered, this case is so cold that it's good to refresh.
Gingerduhh
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That's true.
Well, I did find out who logans friend was.
Interesting.... After snooping... He is not logans Facebook friend anymore. But, he is still joyces.
I'm curious what he looked like in 2006.
Well, I did find out who logans friend was.
Interesting.... After snooping... He is not logans Facebook friend anymore. But, he is still joyces.
I'm curious what he looked like in 2006.
CanManEh
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Something that has just come to mind and i don't know why i just started thinking of it but lets just say someone a GF maybe comes forward and tells police she was told by her current BF jeff that he was the one that kidnapped and killed JK . Heck lets say they find her body the best hope would be that they find her body and thier still inside her clothing and that i think would be best scenario because its the only chance there just may be some bodily fluids left behind that they could trace it to someone..I have never said this before because this is my one case i have lots but this has allways been my main one that i have to check everytime i come to WS i come right here first dont know why but from day one she struck a cord in me and ever since its the case i think of most and want her solved,,,But I have been thinking that i dont think this will ever be solved in the sence we want it solved only way possible is if they guy comes forward and takes them directly to where the body is and even then they are gonna have to take his word for what happend and how she was killed and in that case the best we could get here is a few years for him saying it was self defense somehow and theres no marks on her skelleton like her skull with a hole in it from a blunt force traumma that he cant exsplain..why iam saying this is even if someone turns him in you cant use the picture that we all know about cause you wont convince a jury thats him and if they dont have a body there is just no way to arrest him no matter what no one will convict from that perp walk on camera where he hits every dam post,,say they find the body what is that gonna do like i mentioned about say he left behind dna on her cloths all he has to say is they had sex how are u gonna disprove that ,same goes for if they find his dna or finger prints on i dont know a cigarette butt he can still say he was there but she died while they were having sex he could say a heart attact or a seizure it will just be a skelleton so u will never know the difference ...I guess iam just feeling beaten because i know even if the guy confesses they have to believe his word and most he will get is a few years for hell i dont even know what....i really dont think this case can be solved even if they know the name of the guy that did it ,,The best the familly can hope for now i think is simply to bring her home and give her a propper buriel and to say a real good bye..if you think other wise please let me know how it would work cause i would love to be wrong.......
I have thought for years that the best the Kesse's can hope for if Jennifer is no long alive is to get her body back for a proper burial.....I am sure that they would want to know what happened and why but even they have said that they did not care about a conviction, they just want Jennifer back....
Would DNA on clothes left out in the elements or even if they are buried be of any value after all of these years?
If someone came forward and admitted to murdering Jennifer could that person be prosecuted based solely on his confession? Unless she was strangled and sustained a broken hyoid bone or if there was evidence of knife marks or bullet wounds on her skeletal remains there probably would not be any evidentiary value if the perpetrator revealed where her body was...
I cannot imagine the horror the Kesse's have felt daily for over ten years now not knowing if there would ever be any resolution to Jennifer's disappearance....How sad....
Would DNA on clothes left out in the elements or even if they are buried be of any value after all of these years?
If someone came forward and admitted to murdering Jennifer could that person be prosecuted based solely on his confession? Unless she was strangled and sustained a broken hyoid bone or if there was evidence of knife marks or bullet wounds on her skeletal remains there probably would not be any evidentiary value if the perpetrator revealed where her body was...
I cannot imagine the horror the Kesse's have felt daily for over ten years now not knowing if there would ever be any resolution to Jennifer's disappearance....How sad....
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