GUILTY FL - Kaitlyn Hunt for statutory rape of 14yo girl, Vero Beach, 2013

[Beyond Belief]

If it takes putting the 18 yr old in jail to keep her from interfering with the younger ones education, the judge in that county will put her in jail. No question about it. I have sat in that counties court rooms and it happens regularly on guy/girl relationships.

 

[jjenny]

Sure thing.

In Florida:

Under First Degree Felony Factors:
http://www.ehow.com/list_6685126_florida-rape-laws.html


On a different website advertising for defence attorneys:



This law is more or less the same in every state. Being drunk is considered being mentally incapacitated.

This is why the Steubenville rapes were, in fact, rapes. Because guess what? She didn't explicitly say no, she was too busy being incapacitated, and yes, she was obviously more incapacitated than what most people consider the cut-off of the incapacitated/sober line to be.




BUT this is totally off subject, because neither of them were drunk (At least I'm hoping they weren't). My saying that you can't consent when you're drunk comes from several personal experiences. This thread is focused more on Statutory rape, and the fact that absolutely no one is denying that this is statutory rape.

The law says someone has to be drunk to the point of being incapacitated. Not just drunk. People who have had a few drinks aren't raping each other.

 

[sorrell skye]

The parents of Kaitlyn's victim educated Kaitlyn, even if by some chance she didnt know she shouldnt start a sexual relationship with a 14 year old. Kaitlyn was told and was given two chances.

People may not like statutory rape laws, but they are the reality in this case and many others. Kaitlyn knew, was told to stop and she persisted. She made her choice. Her victim was not old enough to be allowed to choose.

Kaitlyn should take the deal. She is receiving bad advice and it is very unfortunate. I think it is worth looking at the role social media is taking here and shaming the victim's family with some kind of trumped up "gay rage." IMO, anyway. I think it is trumped up. These parents are protecting their minor child and Kaitlyn had a chance to step back.

I think there should be some kind of punishment in this case. I dont know what it should be. I am trying to figure out, however, why no one believes that there could be a bigger picture here with Kaitlyn. I think about all of the cases we review on here and all the pondering we do regarding predatory behavior and when it starts. It interests me that no one has really gone there.

I agree, Believe.

I'm mystified as to why in this case, when there are parents who ARE involved, they're being vilified for exerting their parental duty to protect their daughter.

We've seen so many cases here where the parents were too preoccupied with their current boy toy or plaything, or too busy getting high to bother to notice what was going on in their child's life.

In this case, there are two parents who are trying to protect their daughter, and it seems that some want to rake them over the coals and even go so far as to accuse them of homophobia.

I call BS and then some.

Until evidence surfaces that supports the unfounded accusation of homophobia, I will commend these parents for trying to protect their daughter from an age-inappropriate relationship. I've seen too many parents in the cases I've followed who didn't give a damn.

Kaitlyn was given opportunities to cease her sexual relationship with her victim (and yes - the younger girl IS a victim, according to the law). Kaitlyn refused to heed the warnings, and instead continued her sexual relationship with the younger girl & assisted and/or enticed her into running away. In other words, Kaitlyn's behavior escalated - and that's concerning.

Thank Goodness the victim has parents who care about her. She may or may not be angry with them now, but I think in the future she might be grateful that her parents cared enough to take action to protect her.

 

[EmmaliLucia]

The law says someone has to be drunk to the point of being incapacitated. Not just drunk. People who have had a few drinks aren't raping each other.

You clearly have not seen a dorm on a Thursday, Friday, or Saturday night. But again, this isn't part of the discussion.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

The parents of Kaitlyn's victim educated Kaitlyn, even if by some chance she didnt know she shouldnt start a sexual relationship with a 14 year old. Kaitlyn was told and was given two chances.

People may not like statutory rape laws, but they are the reality in this case and many others. Kaitlyn knew, was told to stop and she persisted. She made her choice. Her victim was not old enough to be allowed to choose.

Kaitlyn should take the deal. She is receiving bad advice and it is very unfortunate. I think it is worth looking at the role social media is taking here and shaming the victim's family with some kind of trumped up "gay rage." IMO, anyway. I think it is trumped up. These parents are protecting their minor child and Kaitlyn had a chance to step back.

I think there should be some kind of punishment in this case. I dont know what it should be. I am trying to figure out, however, why no one believes that there could be a bigger picture here with Kaitlyn. I think about all of the cases we review on here and all the pondering we do regarding predatory behavior and when it starts. It interests me that no one has really gone there.

Gitana mentioned this about her having potentially some predatory issues (please look back at her posts for the exact wording.)

My question, and it seems this hasn't been mentioned, is why is Kaitlyn at 18 just starting her Senior year? Normally, with an August birthday, she would have started Senior year at 17 and finished just before her 18th birthday? What's missing here?

 

[Cher352]

Found this site that list the age of consent for all 50 states.
By it in no state is the age less than 16.

It also has links to the state laws for each state.

(Hope it is ok to post this)

http://www.ageofconsent.us/

 

[believe09]

My question, and it seems this hasn't been mentioned, is why is Kaitlyn at 18 just starting her Senior year? Normally, with an August birthday, she would have started Senior year at 17 and finished just before her 18th birthday? What's missing here?

I think this is an interesting point. Who knows-maybe her parents started her late or she was sick or maybe held back at one point. BUT, if she has any issues that impacted her time at school it is a far better defense. IMVHO, I think she is either some what predatory/manipulative or she has a functional reason for believing the 14 year old is more like a peer. Something tells me that LE would not be pursuing this avenue if she had some kind of functional issue.

It is reasonable to believe that she was warned-the parents of her victim state they gave a chat log to LE that they printed from their discussion with her. It is pretty easy to challenge, and Kaitlyn's defense doesnt include saying that they have lied that they warned her. Again, her attorney would be all over it I am pretty sure.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Found this site that list the age of consent for all 50 states.
By it in no state is the age less than 16.

It also has links to the state laws for each state.

(Hope it is ok to post this)

http://www.ageofconsent.us/

Thanks, that's very informative for educational purposes. I was reviewing the questions that were being ask in the forum area under each state. It's pretty clear that the kids are confused about the rules and I'm sure some adults are as well. Each state is different so I'm still going to stand with my belief that education for parents and children on the laws is much needed for prevention purposes.

 

[Gardenlady]

Sorry I should have clarified in my post last night - age of consent is 14 in many other countries (I said places, guess not specific enough) in Western Europe.

Btw still waiting to hear what "gay rage" is. I hope the OP, or anyone in agreement with him/her pops in to clarify.

 

[cityslick]

A couple of thoughts on this:

1 - As the law is written, I do believe the 18 year old has no defense. That being said, was it reported when the relationship started? Where I'm going here is if the relationship started when the girl was 17 and the parents of the 14 year old didn't bring charges until the girl turned 18, well that's shady to me.

2 - I've always thought that the law should be rewritten, perhaps bump the age up to 21, keeping the age of consent at 16.

3 - I think the sexual orientation aspect of the case is a smokescreen TBH. I think the 18 year old's supporters are using that angle as a defense where we know that if it was a heterosexual relationship this story wouldn't even be in the news.

4 - I don't like the fact that the law is prosecuted on the whim of the younger person's parents. What this basically means is if the parents like you, you can probably get away with it. Statutory rape should be based on how in you are with the parents.

I agree with others, the girl should of taken the plea deal if it meant she wouldn't need to register as a sex offender. Sometimes pride gets in the way of the smart thing to do. She obviously believes she's done nothing wrong but the law is the law, even if you don't agree with it.

 

[Skully]

Right...the parents notified Kaitlyn...which is what they should have done since she is 18. They had no reason to contact Kaitlyns parents about the situation since Kaitlyn is an adult. The coach notified the 14 yr olds parents because she is a child and her parents are responsible for her.....not so for Kaitlyn.

I have a teen in school and 20 year old. At our HS the student is able to sign themselves out of class and can leave without parental permission if they are 18.

The fact of the matter is that it is against the law for an 18 year old adult to have a sexual relationship with a 14 year old. Kaitlyn was aware of this and still chose to continue the relationship. Why should she get a free pass? Because they went to the same school? Where should the line be drawn? What if the 14 yr old was 13 or 12? What if it was a 20 yr old classmate? A 20 year old teacher assistant or substitute? An 18 yr old coach?
Bottom line it's illegal.

I agree with you, this is how I feel about this. People think because kids are in love and then marry this should be okay. Well let me tell you it isn't. I know a woman who married her older bf, the ages were the same. He was 18, she was 14 and she got pregnant, and had a baby at 15. He had problems that showed up later, sexual problems. He didn't go after young girls, he turned out to be a sexual addict. Her life was never normal. She never did the things other girls got to do, like date boys, go to prom, finish HS. Her life was just taking care of the house and kids. I think there is a law in place for a reason. Where do we draw the line? At what age? I now know a man who is charged with the same thing, he is 38 and the victim is 14. so he said he thought the kid was 18, he has a text message from the kid stating his age. What do we do here? It was consensual, do we just let it go?

 

[Gardenlady]

Well let me turn the question around to all of you who are in favor of a highly black and white legal line - do you really want to see an 18 year old in jail for having sex with a 17 year old? Really? The guy I was having lots of sex with at 17 and he was 18 is a lawyer now, I'm sure he'd be amused at this idea, hahaha. As I am. And at 17 I'd have pitched a (well-reasoned, of course ) fit over the idea of the law trying to criminalize my sex life, which I was fully in control of complete with a supply of condoms and birth control pills paid for with my own money. We cannot take away the agency of middle and older teens when the relationship is between peers.

Teens will have sex. In recognizing that, we have to negotiate some kind of middle ground between total freedom and total criminalization. The key to me seems to lie in the area of acceptable age-differences.

 

[Skully]

Well let me turn the question around to all of you who are in favor of a highly black and white legal line - do you really want to see an 18 year old in jail for having sex with a 17 year old? Really? The guy I was having lots of sex with at 17 and he was 18 is a lawyer now, I'm sure he'd be amused at this idea, hahaha. As I am. And at 17 I'd have pitched a (well-reasoned, of course ) fit over the idea of the law trying to criminalize my sex life, which I was fully in control of complete with a supply of condoms and birth control pills paid for with my own money. We cannot take away the agency of middle and older teens when the relationship is between peers.

Teens will have sex. In recognizing that, we have to negotiate some kind of middle ground between total freedom and total criminalization. The key to me seems to lie in the area of acceptable age-differences.

17 with an 18 yr old is different than a 14 and an 18 yr old. At 14 you are not mature enough to have a baby, to understand fully if you want to be gay or straight, and the brain is not fully developed, that is why they don't drive until 16 and in my mind that is still too early. They don't make good decisions at 14, or 15, or even at 16.

 

[Gardenlady]

I dunno, I was having safe sex at 15 and 16 and got myself on the pill. I think plenty of 16 year olds, *if educated*, are able to make good, safe decisions. Another reason why I am highly outspoken on the matter of better, more comprehensive sex Ed beginning way before the teen years.

Also, I'm not really sure 14 year olds don't know if they're gay or straight. Most gay people I know knew they were not hetero (though maybe not having the correct words for their identity) by the time they were 8 or so. I certainly knew I was bi long before 14.

Again, the key to me seems to be in age difference. And in not criminalizing the act of sex between two *peers* who are having sex, and the relationship is not predatory or coercive.

 

[believe09]

Again, the key to me seems to be in age difference. And in not criminalizing the act of sex between two *peers* who are having sex, and the relationship is not predatory or coercive.

These are the key features to me as well. As long as the relationship is not predatory or coercive, there should be greater wiggle room for consent.

I am not sure there are a lot of folks IN FAVOR of the black and white line. I dont know that anyone here is in favor of her doing jail time for this. I can only speak for myself, but I am dealing with the law as it is written. Not as I want it to be, fwiw.

cityslick, Kaitlyn was 18 when the sexual relationship began with the 14 year old victim. In the earlier media, Kaitlyn's atty made it a point of saying that had the sex occurred between them 108 days prior, it would be a non issue.

I am still a fan of keeping the age of consent 16, I have to say. jmvho.

 

[JeannaT]

These are the key features to me as well. As long as the relationship is not predatory or coercive, there should be greater wiggle room for consent.

I am not sure there are a lot of folks IN FAVOR of the black and white line. I dont know that anyone here is in favor of her doing jail time for this. I can only speak for myself, but I am dealing with the law as it is written. Not as I want it to be, fwiw.

cityslick, Kaitlyn was 18 when the sexual relationship began with the 14 year old victim. In the earlier media, Kaitlyn's atty made it a point of saying that had the sex occurred between them 108 days prior, it would be a non issue.

I am still a fan of keeping the age of consent 16, I have to say. jmvho.

I think we're on an incredibly slippery slope when we try to define whether a high school sexual relationship is "coercive". Times may have changed - but coercive is exactly the way to describe sex when I was in high school. The boy would leave, or badmouth you if you didn't give in. Sometimes he'd tell anyway, and girls would get so humiliated. Extremely coercive, very often.

I'm not sure we can determine the level of coerciveness in these relationships to the point it would stick in court. Part of one of life's lessons - learn to say no if you mean no.

 

[jjenny]

These are the key features to me as well. As long as the relationship is not predatory or coercive, there should be greater wiggle room for consent.

I am not sure there are a lot of folks IN FAVOR of the black and white line. I dont know that anyone here is in favor of her doing jail time for this. I can only speak for myself, but I am dealing with the law as it is written. Not as I want it to be, fwiw.

cityslick, Kaitlyn was 18 when the sexual relationship began with the 14 year old victim. In the earlier media, Kaitlyn's atty made it a point of saying that had the sex occurred between them 108 days prior, it would be a non issue.

I am still a fan of keeping the age of consent 16, I have to say. jmvho.

It didn't occur 108 days prior, per the police affidavit. KH didn't just turn 18 when parents contacted police either. The law has to be followed as written. If somebody doesn't like the law, they can not just ignore it.
And all the Ifs aren't going to make the behavior legal.

 

[cityslick]

These are the key features to me as well. As long as the relationship is not predatory or coercive, there should be greater wiggle room for consent.

I am not sure there are a lot of folks IN FAVOR of the black and white line. I dont know that anyone here is in favor of her doing jail time for this. I can only speak for myself, but I am dealing with the law as it is written. Not as I want it to be, fwiw.

cityslick, Kaitlyn was 18 when the sexual relationship began with the 14 year old victim. In the earlier media, Kaitlyn's atty made it a point of saying that had the sex occurred between them 108 days prior, it would be a non issue.

I am still a fan of keeping the age of consent 16, I have to say. jmvho.

BBM

Ok thanks. My point then stands, the law is the law (no matter if it's really a bad law or not).

The separate debate on if the parents of the 14 yr old are pursuing charges only because it's a gay relationship is irrelevant as far as the law is concerned. It's their kid, they are allowed to pursue charges, especially if they asked the girl to stop and she didn't. Now that I think about it, it's actually annoying that her supporters are using the sexual nature of the relationship to stand by her. Would they be doing the same if it was a guy and a girl (probably not)?

 

[Elley Mae]

BBM

Ok thanks. My point then stands, the law is the law (no matter if it's really a bad law or not).

The separate debate on if the parents of the 14 yr old are pursuing charges only because it's a gay relationship is irrelevant as far as the law is concerned. It's their kid, they are allowed to pursue charges, especially if they asked the girl to stop and she didn't. Now that I think about it, it's actually annoying that her supporters are using the sexual nature of the relationship to stand by her. Would they be doing the same if it was a guy and a girl (probably not)?

I am on the side of the law on this. She is at school for one thing, suppose to be there for an education, not bathroom sex with a minor. What in the heck has happened that it's ok for "kids" to have sex. I don't understand what the push is. I really don't care about gender, that is a non issue. It's about age.
I remember a show I watched years ago. It was about these corporate/ceo men that were married with families and were just weeks or months from retirement when they up and died and the woman were denied their retirements/pensions. No the wives did not get the pensions. There are cut-off dates for lots of things just like there are age cut-offs. The rules/laws are in place for a reason, and I don't think it's for bending purposes. jmo

o/t 16 year olds can vote in local elections in montgomery co md.
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/maryland-town-grants-16-year-olds-the-right-to-vote/

 

[believe09]

I think we're on an incredibly slippery slope when we try to define whether a high school sexual relationship is "coercive". Times may have changed - but coercive is exactly the way to describe sex when I was in high school. The boy would leave, or badmouth you if you didn't give in. Sometimes he'd tell anyway, and girls would get so humiliated. Extremely coercive, very often.

I'm not sure we can determine the level of coerciveness in these relationships to the point it would stick in court. Part of one of life's lessons - learn to say no if you mean no.

:waitasec:

We have to define it. We have to define excessive speed and BAC Limits and when folks can vote. The boys you referenced would fall into coercive so they should be punished.

I think of our poster who discussed the nightmare her son is going through-he didnt know the girl was underaged. I read your sympathetic comments to the poster, but using your yardstick above, he should have known right?

I am so confused-are you advocating no consent laws whatsoever for minors? We will just chalk up predatory, coercive and legally impaired sexual relations between children as life lessons?