GUILTY FL - Kaitlyn Hunt for statutory rape of 14yo girl, Vero Beach, 2013

[Gardenlady]

BBM: I'm still curious about the scenario of 2 kids the same age being thrown in jail for having consensual sex ???? I really would like to see something to back this up.

I really don't want to go off in that direction without seeing a link.

eta: not directing this at you, I just think it's important if something is stated as fact, it is backed up with a link.

I was addressing a couple of posts where people held that underage sex should be punished. I don't know if there is anywhere that DOES do that, but that's what posters seem to be saying should happen.

I'm still curious to hear what punishment they would like to see under such a hypothetical situation.

 

[jjenny]

I'm a little confused by your post as well. Two underage teens (both under 18) having sex is not a crime, hence the defense lawyer's comment that if she would of had sex 105 (or however long) days ago with the 14 year old, it wouldn't had been a crime because she was 17 then.

I agree that it's not ideal that underage sex happens, but it does and there's no stopping it IMO.

I don't think 105 days would be correct in FL. Young girl being 14 still wouldn't make it legal. So I think the lawyer is blowing smoke here.

 

[Elley Mae]

I really don't know what the punishment should be? It's kaitlyn that is being charged, she is the adult, the juvenile will not be charged. I can not imagine a 13-14 year old having sex. What is wrong with a child that sex is what they desire? Really? Honestly I think the child that desires sex has too much time on their hands or it could be early signs of trouble. Who knows. jmo

 

[TheDuchess]

I was addressing a couple of posts where people held that underage sex should be punished. I don't know if there is anywhere that DOES do that, but that's what posters seem to be saying should happen.

I'm still curious to hear what punishment they would like to see under such a hypothetical situation.

I don't think the child should be "punished" per se. However, if young teenagers, let's say 1215 years old are found out to be having sex, by an authority figure, whether it be a teacher, LE officer, counselor, etc...they should be required as a mandatory reporter to share that information with the parents of these children and put through some sort of required intervention.

I will tell you this. If I ever found out that an authority figure knew my 13 year old was having sex with another 13 year old and they did not share this information with me and I found out later-god forbid due to an unplanned pregnancy or the contraction of an STD-heads would roll.

To me, any child under the age of 16 having sexual intercourse with anyone else, even of the same peer group, should be labeled an at-risk teen and should be dealt with accordingly. Sure, they may end up angry and embarrassed, etc...but they may just think twice about engaging in the behavior if us adults stopped letting them off the hook for it!

 

[Gardenlady]

There are sure a lot of straw men in this thread.

I don't know of anyone - even the most laissez-faire, progressive about sex people I know, who are out encouraging 13 year olds to have sex. Or even think its a good idea.

What I do see is a recognition that young people who have adult bodies will eventually experiment sexually, and may even have sexual intercourse. And so those young people should have all the facts they need to make the best possible choices so that they remain safe and healthy.

I don't think publicly or privately shaming them, or criminalizing sexual behavior that is consensual and between two peers within a reasonable age, is going to lower the rate of teen sex, if that's what your aim is. They will just get craftier at hiding it. And eventually they WILL be of an age where parents can no longer control and monitor their every move - and so what then?

That's why it needs to be hashed out, IMO, and handled rationally. Hopefully long before, via education, but also, if too late, then without harsh sentences and criminal records.

 

[Frogzilla]

I've cooled off a little and since I do appreciate this website, I will continue to contribute a little bit to make sure people aren't going off the sectarian deep end. The conversations today are of much higher quality. I would also like to apologize to anyone who read my removed post, it was a low blow.

 

[mysteriew]

Good discussion. Here's what is boils down to for me: Parents of both girls and boys should be having frank conversations with their teenagers-boys and girls-about sexual activity. This includes age of consent and the legal ramifications of a person who is an adult (18) having sex with a person who is under the age of 18 or under the age of consent. The report states that Kaitlinn texted someone that she knew there would be consequences for having sex with a 14 year old. She chose to ignore them.

And while I do agree that registering as an offender for eons maybe should be determined on a case by case basis, I also don't buy this whole outrage over 18 year olds being prosecuted for a crime that has been on the books forever--the surprise and outrage and self-justification don't hold water for me.

Kaitlin did the crime. Kaitlinn should do the time.

Not only that, she got off light. If they can prove that they had sex in the school bathroom, I am sure that is illegal. So they could charge the younger girl and charge her with contributing as well as for public indecency. And if there were other kids in the BR at the time, then there could be additional charges. I would guess if they wanted, they could add quite a few charges to what she has. Statuatory rape for each time they can prove the two had sex and all that.

I do hope lawmakers watch this case and reconsider about some issues. But no I don't have a problem with them charging her. It doesn't matter if it is a heterosexual relationship or a homosexual relationship. The girl was only 14. Way too early to be having sex. The fact that she was having sex with an 18 year old only makes it worse.

 

[Frogzilla]

If it takes putting the 18 yr old in jail to keep her from interfering with the younger ones education, the judge in that county will put her in jail. No question about it. I have sat in that counties court rooms and it happens regularly on guy/girl relationships.

The younger girls parents have went before the school board to have the older girl removed and it failed. They then went in front of a judge two times and both times the judge was not in favor of removing the older girl from school. They went back to the school board a second time and were finally able to have her removed.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Speaking from my experience and what I have seen of others, once you go "there" as a teen, no parent or other authority figure is going to have much luck stopping a teen from going there again.

I think a combination of keeping your child active, ensure that they have good role models and education/preventive measures are very important. I think there is a bigger problem when teens start very young. It could be due to lack of a good mother or father figure in life and the teen is mixed up and trying to replace that affection with sex. It could be peer pressure from a older teen, making it necessary to encourage kids to associate with those in their own age group. There are a lot of factors and combinations of, that we need to address with our children. No, not all parents are going to do this so we as society have to step in and work together for the betterment of our youth.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I've cooled off a little and since I do appreciate this website, I will continue to contribute a little bit to make sure people aren't going off the sectarian deep end. The conversations today are of much higher quality. I would also like to apologize to anyone who read my removed post, it was a low blow.

Nice to see you are back! I was just discussing elsewhere of knowing when I myself need to walk away from a discussion. I can't promise that I will always behave though. :floorlaugh: I am human but at times I feel like your frog avatar.

 

[Frogzilla]

State Sen. Altman says he hopes to revise sex offenses law, offering protection to 18-year-olds like Kaitlyn Hunt - http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2013/may/26/sebastian-state-senator-altman-says-he-hopes-to/?partner=RSS
State Sen. Thad Altman (from the defendants district) thinks the law should provide more forgiveness for teenagers who risk criminal charges by having consensual sexual relationships, like the case pending against 18-year-old Sebastian high school student Kaitlyn Hunt.

 

[jjenny]

Not only that, she got off light. If they can prove that they had sex in the school bathroom, I am sure that is illegal. So they could charge the younger girl and charge her with contributing as well as for public indecency. And if there were other kids in the BR at the time, then there could be additional charges. I would guess if they wanted, they could add quite a few charges to what she has. Statuatory rape for each time they can prove the two had sex and all that.

I do hope lawmakers watch this case and reconsider about some issues. But no I don't have a problem with them charging her. It doesn't matter if it is a heterosexual relationship or a homosexual relationship. The girl was only 14. Way too early to be having sex. The fact that she was having sex with an 18 year old only makes it worse.

14 year old is considered a victim in this situation. Nobody is going to charge 14 year old.

 

[TheDuchess]

There are sure a lot of straw men in this thread.

I don't know of anyone - even the most laissez-faire, progressive about sex people I know, who are out encouraging 13 year olds to have sex. Or even think its a good idea.

What I do see is a recognition that young people who have adult bodies will eventually experiment sexually, and may even have sexual intercourse. And so those young people should have all the facts they need to make the best possible choices so that they remain safe and healthy.

I don't think publicly or privately shaming them, or criminalizing sexual behavior that is consensual and between two peers within a reasonable age, is going to lower the rate of teen sex, if that's what your aim is. They will just get craftier at hiding it. And eventually they WILL be of an age where parents can no longer control and monitor their every move - and so what then?

That's why it needs to be hashed out, IMO, and handled rationally. Hopefully long before, via education, but also, if too late, then without harsh sentences and criminal records.

I'm not sure if this is directed at my posts, but I'll take a shot here. I don't think my intention is to publicly or privately shame them, but rather to make them aware of dangerous behavior. As a parent, it should be my right and my duty to be informed of my 12-15 year old child having sexual relations, if an authority figure discovers it. I would want to know.

While no one "encourages" sexual activity at such a young age, we certainly are moving more toward condoning it when we give these children enough rope to hang themselves with. And yes-I guess it would be my aim to try to prevent as much sexual activity in young teens as possible, by whatever means.

Maybe I'm getting old, but in my opinion, there is no "healthy" way for a 13 year old to have sex, whether it be with another 13 year old or an older person.

JMO

 

[TheDuchess]

State Sen. Altman says he hopes to revise sex offenses law, offering protection to 18-year-olds like Kaitlyn Hunt - http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2013/may/26/sebastian-state-senator-altman-says-he-hopes-to/?partner=RSS
State Sen. Thad Altman (from the defendants district) thinks the law should provide more forgiveness for teenagers who risk criminal charges by having consensual sexual relationships, like the case pending against 18-year-old Sebastian high school student Kaitlyn Hunt.

Can someone please tell me why Kaitlyn Hunt is now the poster child for the poor 18 year olds who want to have 14 year old lovers??? These cases have been tried in courts for years and years and all of a sudden, we have a cute girl who is affected and it is just not fair.

Now, that said, I do not think that what she has done rises to the level of serving jail time as a first offender, nor do I equate her with a rapist who runs around attacking children. There needs to be some distinction here, of course. Nor do I want the sex offender registry watered down by cases like these.

As a parent-I want to be able to go online and find out who the predators are. I believe mine does tell me predator and does indicate an age, but doesn't give any actual detail of the crime, i.e. forcible rape vs. statutory rape. Just show me the monsters I need to look out for in my neighborhood.

But I still don't get what make Kaitlyn so special? Is it because she is a girl? Is is because she is a lesbian? I just don't get it. The law doesn't differentiate.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Bringing this back up for reference:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/...no-choice-but-to-report-lesbian-relationship/

The victims parents stance:

We had actually told Miss Hunt that this was wrong,” the alleged victim’s mother told CNN.
“We had no alternative but to turn to the law and use it as basically a last resort,” the alleged victim’s father added.

IMO, the victims parents did everything they could do to try and stop the age inappropriate sexual relationship and eventually out of desperation, ask assistance from the law. What else could they have done?

Kaitlyn's parents:

Kaitlyn’s parents have blamed the arrest of their daughter on the alleged victim’s “bigoted” parents.

Kaitlyn's parents feel that if it was a heterosexual relationship with the same age difference the victims parents wouldn't have cared. IMO, this is a very inappropriate and irrelevant move on the parents part. Shame on them!!! The law is the law and there is no need to bring up sexual orientation. The issue is Kaitlyn was ask to cease the relationship and she didn't abide. Many parents would have issues with a 14 year old having sex, dating or hanging out with a 18 year old.

If you watch the video at the link it then goes on to Kaitlyn's parents addressing the punishment their daughter is facing. Kaitlyn's parents say they are not asking that their daughter doesn't get punished. They are asking that she receives misdemeanor punishment instead of felony. I have to agree strongly with the parents of Kaitlyn on this issue.

The ACLU steps in to back Kaitlyn because of the harsh laws.
http://tallahasseeo.com/2013/05/28/...t-on-prosecution-of-18-year-old-kaitlyn-hunt/

IMO, this brings everything back to the fact the the punishment does not fit the crime and there is a need for change in the way the laws are written in Florida.

I really am furious that the parents are pulling a card and trying to say this is "bigoted". No, sorry this is about laws. It has nothing to do with discrimination other than Kaitlyn's parents trying to make it such. Maybe it will work with some, but they lost their credibility with me. Like I said earlier, I'm not paying attention to this elsewhere so I don't know what various groups are say.

 

[believe09]

Can someone please tell me why Kaitlyn Hunt is now the poster child for the poor 18 year olds who want to have 14 year old lovers??? These cases have been tried in courts for years and years and all of a sudden, we have a cute girl who is affected and it is just not fair.

Now, that said, I do not think that what she has done rises to the level of serving jail time as a first offender, nor do I equate her with a rapist who runs around attacking children. There needs to be some distinction here, of course. Nor do I want the sex offender registry watered down by cases like these.

As a parent-I want to be able to go online and find out who the predators are. I believe mine does tell me predator and does indicate an age, but doesn't give any actual detail of the crime, i.e. forcible rape vs. statutory rape. Just show me the monsters I need to look out for in my neighborhood.

But I still don't get what make Kaitlyn so special? Is it because she is a girl? Is is because she is a lesbian? I just don't get it. The law doesn't differentiate.

:floorlaugh:

The reason she is even being discussed, imo, is because her parents engaged in a social media campaign that indicated the victim's family were raging homophobes and that was why they made a criminal complaint.

I am the op and I couldnt figure out what difference a same sex relationship made in this statutory rape case. She is 18, the child is 14, she was given chances to leave the child alone and she chose to pursue the relationship. She was offered a fair deal and she is rolling the dice.

It has morphed into a discussion regarding statutory rape laws and their application and can they be better defined. Personally, I think the hard line is appropriate at 16. Either sex, any sexual orientation. That is jmo.

Should we continue criminalizing consensual sex among minors? Yes, imo, if there is a wide age gap, if there is predatory behavior and/or if there is coercion.

In this particular case, however, the one that the thread is predicated on: The law in FL says what it says. Kaitlyn knew she was breaking it. She was charged and even her attorney confirms the nature of the relationship and her age vs the victim. It is what it is. I think she should be looking for a deal because she has an uphill battle here.

 

[believe09]

Bringing this back up for reference:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/...no-choice-but-to-report-lesbian-relationship/

The victims parents stance:



IMO, the victims parents did everything they could do to try and stop the age inappropriate sexual relationship and eventually out of desperation, ask assistance from the law. What else could they have done?

Kaitlyn's parents:



Kaitlyn's parents feel that if it was a heterosexual relationship with the same age difference the victims parents wouldn't have cared. IMO, this is a very inappropriate and irrelevant move on the parents part. Shame on them!!! The law is the law and there is no need to bring up sexual orientation. The issue is Kaitlyn was ask to cease the relationship and she didn't abide. Many parents would have issues with a 14 year old having sex, dating or hanging out with a 18 year old.

If you watch the video at the link it then goes on to Kaitlyn's parents addressing the punishment their daughter is facing. Kaitlyn's parents say they are not asking that their daughter doesn't get punished. They are asking that she receives misdemeanor punishment instead of felony. I have to agree strongly with the parents of Kaitlyn on this issue.

The ACLU steps in to back Kaitlyn because of the harsh laws.
http://tallahasseeo.com/2013/05/28/...t-on-prosecution-of-18-year-old-kaitlyn-hunt/

IMO, this brings everything back to the fact the the punishment does not fit the crime and there is a need for change in the way the laws are written in Florida.

I really am furious that the parents are pulling a card and trying to say this is "bigoted". No, sorry this is about laws. It has nothing to do with discrimination other than Kaitlyn's parents trying to make it such. Maybe it will work with some, but they lost their credibility with me. Like I said earlier, I'm not paying attention to this elsewhere so I don't know what various groups are say.

:clap: You said this much better than I did. Thank you.

 

[hipmomx2]

A credible threat of bodily harm rises to the level of punishable coercion, IMHO.

"I won't be your boyfriend anymore if you won't have sex with me" is not punishable, at all, by any stretch of the imagination. The guy wants sex, he does't want a girlfriend who won't give it to him. Now it's up to her to give in or not have that guy as a boyfriend. I can't imagine punishing that.

Any more than, if you don't stop cursing all the time I won't want to hang out with you. if you dress weird like that I'm not going to the mall with you. If you sit with Lindsay at lunch, you can't hang out with us anymore.

Certainly it is, if you don't want to be my boyfriend and your a minor and I'm 20! Yeah ILLEGAL

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

There are sure a lot of straw men in this thread.

I don't know of anyone - even the most laissez-faire, progressive about sex people I know, who are out encouraging 13 year olds to have sex. Or even think its a good idea.

What I do see is a recognition that young people who have adult bodies will eventually experiment sexually, and may even have sexual intercourse. And so those young people should have all the facts they need to make the best possible choices so that they remain safe and healthy.

I don't think publicly or privately shaming them, or criminalizing sexual behavior that is consensual and between two peers within a reasonable age, is going to lower the rate of teen sex, if that's what your aim is. They will just get craftier at hiding it. And eventually they WILL be of an age where parents can no longer control and monitor their every move - and so what then?

That's why it needs to be hashed out, IMO, and handled rationally. Hopefully long before, via education, but also, if too late, then without harsh sentences and criminal records.

BBM, you are absolutely right. As a child of the 80's, sex was a such forbidden thing and big deal - in positive and negative ways - all because of the way society treats it. The bigger deal is made about things like this, the more likely they are going to want to try it. It's clear by how things work here in Germany: 16 year olds can drink beer but everyone knows that if you're caught driving, you're in trouble. I have yet to see crazy out of control 16 year olds drunk and going crazy. Because having a beer is not made to be a big deal. Punkt. Age of consent is 14 and it's legal under most circumstances if the other person isn't 21, unless there are other circumstances such as coercion. Two 13 year olds having sex is technically illegal, but there is not punishment unless there was some harm to 'society.'

My point is that sex and one's body is not something to be shameful about. But kids 14 or 15 are not eager to have sex, overall. They know they can, but they don't. It's going to happen, but the more forbidden it's made, more shameful, the more they are gonna want to go for it. And then the money spent in the courts and the destruction it does to young people and families for punishing these crimes is a big price to pay. There are bigger fish to fry, IMO. I have not changed my opinion that I think Kaitlyn is going to be made an example of and it's gonna take down the younger girl right along with her.

That being said, I am not advocating that the US be like Germany. NO, no. But one has to pause and think if the laws and shame are creating the very things they are trying to prevent.

 

[cityslick]

I keep seeing posts discussing underage sex and how young is too young, etc. My question is just that, how young is too young. I see a lot of references to the age of 13 and I 100% agree, 13 year olds shouldn't be having sex. Now, I can barely remember when I was 13 but I do know that during that time (during the 80's) that sex talk was all around me and not just from kids my age. Sex education was taught in my science class when I was in 7th grade, which is about the age of 13 or so.

I think it all starts with the parents. I'm tired of seeing the government trying to enact laws on things that really should be handling by responsible parents and to be honest this is one of them. If you want to criminalize sex between an 18+ and someone under 16, that's fine because the arbitrary line you drew there is 18 = adult. But criminalizing two 16 yr olds or even a 16 and a 15 year old is ridiculous. That's a parenting issue, one where parents of both kids need to properly educate on what sex is and the consequences of such (kids, STD's, etc). And I think that talk should be had sooner than later because the reality of the situation is if your kid isn't talking about sex, all their friends are and perhaps even their teachers. That was true in my case and that was 25+ years ago.

GardenLady made the point a few pages back and it's true, people don't go insane about the amount of violence that your average teenager is exposed to but bring the conversion to sex/nudity/etc and everyone goes ape over that. I think that's one area where everyone else has it right and we (US) have it backwards.