FL - Mark Schwab facing execution for the '91 murder of Junny Rios-Martinez

[Animal04216]

I respectfully ask that you reconsider deleting posts. Having missed that part of the thread, I would rather not inadvertantly start the trouble again. I do not want to cause trouble by re-opening old wounds. I apologize in advance if I'm out of bounds on this.

No I will NO reconsider deleting posts. When we delete posts it is for a reason and truthfully not something to be debated or questioned on. If its deleted you dont need to know what it was about because obviously it was irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[XcomSquaddie]

You did not miss anything of value, and what you did miss is not the kind of post the moderators would worry about YOU making. Carry on as you have been.

Ok. I'm cool with that thanks.

No I will NO reconsider deleting posts. When we delete posts it is for a reason and truthfully not something to be debated or questioned on. If its deleted you dont need to know what it was about because obviously it was irrelevant to the discussion.

Not trying to debate or question. Again, I apologize if I crossed the line.

 

[Taximom]

Her entire statement, and I think it's beautiful:
http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pb...AKINGNEWS/80701010&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL
7:42 p.m.: Statement from Vicki Rios-Martinez

I am not here to rejoice in a death, nor do I feel the need to justify our presence, as this ending represents a new beginning for us. Seventeen years is way too long to wait for justice, and without justice there is no closure. Closure is the time when we finally can close the door to the past; to the hell we have lived through, and begin recreating our heaven on earth. It is a time when all involved in this drama, from the ones who allowed it to happen to those it happened to, can forgive themselves, walk away, and begin anew.
I can identify with the right to lifers who are here to protest tonight. Before Junny’s death, I did not believe in the death penalty. I didn’t like guns and found it hard to kill any of God’s creations, even a spider. Then for me the shoe was put on the other foot. I viewed life from a whole new perspective. Evil came to live in my heaven. My belief system broke down. Humanity had taken one of its own. Not on TV or in the movies, not in some other town or state or country, but in my own home right from under my eyes. This human became inhumane. He had been caught and convicted of his evil ways. He was given not one but two life sentences, only to receive a second chance instead. Upon his release he chose to continue his evil ways. He preyed on the innocent with his lies. He chose his next victim with intent. He chose to violate his probation knowing that if he got caught, the consequence would be to serve every day of his two-life sentence. So, to avoid jail he plotted and planned Junny’s torture and demise.

I believe in a Higher Consciousness, the Universe, and the Universal Laws. I do not believe in hell as a place where someone goes when they die, but rather as a place we create in our lives while we are here on this earth. I believe that we are given a chance, an opportunity, and a lifetime to create our own heaven on earth.

From where does evil come? The Devil, some would say. I myself do not believe in the devil, although I do believe that evil exists. If you put the word “devil” in front of a mirror, you will see the word “lived.” I believe that we as humans can choose to be evil, and that is the life Schwab chose for himself. He has come full circle, he has lived, now, his drama is finished, his reign of evil has come to an end. The Universe has brought about balance, justice, and the law of consequence. I have closure. Now it is time for all to move on and continue to create the heaven God intended for us all.

 

[Truly]

(from Junny's mom's thoughtful words)
...I can identify with the right to lifers who are here to protest tonight. Before Junny’s death, I did not believe in the death penalty. I didn’t like guns and found it hard to kill any of God’s creations, even a spider. Then for me the shoe was put on the other foot. I viewed life from a whole new perspective. Evil came to live in my heaven. My belief system broke down...

...I believe in a Higher Consciousness, the Universe, and the Universal Laws. I do not believe in hell as a place where someone goes when they die, but rather as a place we create in our lives while we are here on this earth. I believe that we are given a chance, an opportunity, and a lifetime to create our own heaven on earth.

The difference, for me, is when the shoe was forced onto my foot, I did not turn around and stomp anything to death. I did not become that which I despised. I did not kill in order to exact revenge upon those who had invaded my heaven. Did I want to? Oh, hell yes. Would I have killed in the moment out of self-defense? Probably. Did it take every ounce of fortitude and courage I could muster to go on ahead and rebuild my heaven and my life without acting out of fear and hatred? Absolutely.

If anyone thinks I am all warm and fuzzy about child molestors, they are dead wrong. Warm and fuzzy to me means snuggled down with a big bucket of popcorn watching a happy movie with loved ones. Not this agonizing stone-cold rock in the pit of my stomach knowing that at 6pm sharp, under the clear blue summer sky, yet another life has been purposefully snuffed out. Life in prison without parole. Yes. Definitely. Why can't we make that happen? But death? That is just done for revenge. As a wise person once said, 'an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind'.

I hope that this mom finds her peace and her heaven here on earth. She is right; this one life may well be it. So often, we hear that a person who has suffered goes out and repeats the exact same thing that was done to them. I am afraid that may have been what happened here. I don't know if anyone can find that heaven after taking a life. But I honestly, with all of my heart, hope that she does.

(PS Thanks to all for your kind words.)

 

[Diamond]

To sum my feelings up: In a perfect world...my perfect world...nobody would take the life of another for any reason. However, that's not the way it works and you live w/the choices you make. I have no compassion for murderers and a serious hatred of child murderers...makes it difficult to visit this website. I love my children always and forever, but that doesn't mean I would accept or support anything...especially, such evilness.

 

[miss_vegemite]

(from Junny's Mum) "Then for me the shoe was put on the other foot. I viewed life from a whole new perspective. Evil came to live in my heaven. My belief system broke down. Humanity had taken one of its own. Not on TV or in the movies, not in some other town or state or country, but in my own home right from under my eyes. This human became inhumane. He had been caught and convicted of his evil ways. He was given not one but two life sentences, only to receive a second chance instead. Upon his release he chose to continue his evil ways. He preyed on the innocent with his lies. He chose his next victim with intent. He chose to violate his probation knowing that if he got caught, the consequence would be to serve every day of his two-life sentence. So, to avoid jail he plotted and planned Junny’s torture and demise."

The agony and the pain that Junny's mother must have lived through will never ever go away in this lifetime for her. The execution of this repulsive creature will be one less agony she has to think about.

Just knowing he was alive and breathing air he was not entitled too, after taking her baby and torturing him to death, must have been a horrendous burden to deal with. Junny was her baby, her dreams, her future, her grandchildren...her life.

I wish her some peace until she meets up with Junny again in Heaven.

We don't have the DP in Australia. I wish we did.

 

[MCDRAW]

I agree with you Jeana.

I have asked this question of people for years in death penalty debates...

IF this man broke into your home and you were alone there with your sleeping child, would you let him walk out the door with your child or would you kill him? No middle choices. He is GOING to walk out with the child unless he is dead - kill him or not?

If there was one person who says they dont believe in the death penalty whose answer was

" I would let him walk out."

Then that is the only person who really doesn't believe in the death penalty.

The rest is just semantics

Great Post!

 

[Amraann]

As I have said, it's MY OPINION that the people who carry out the execution are no different than the condemned. Both are killers. You, and others here, obviously feel differently, as is your right. I am, and always have been, strongly anti-death penalty. If someone commits a crime such as this one, give them LWOP. You don't take someone's life to set the example for others, to say "killing is wrong and this is how you will be punished by being killed as well," IMO. That makes zero sense to me.

Killing someone INNOCENT is wrong. It is not wrong to kill some dirt ball who harms children.
Maybe that will help it make more sense.
Also most people are afraid of dying so to have that be the penalty is a deterrent. It does very well set an example for others! It lets others like this sicko know that if they commit a similar crime they can expect a similar punishment.. How is that not an example for others?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I have asked the same question here, and the response has been that it's an unfair question and I don't actually get an answer. Which, in a sense, is an answer.

I don't understand how it could possibly be an unfair question . Criminals don't play by society's rules, so anything involving them is pretty unfair, IMO. I don't believe that self defense is lowering ourselves to the level of the criminals. For that to happen, we'd have to take executions to the point where the inmate is killed in the same manner as the victims and of course that's not possible.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I will be honest here. If any person came into my home, took one of my children, and tried to leave with any one of them, I would do EVERYTHING within my power to stop them. Yes, I would even kill them if I had to. It would not even be a thought. It would be an automatic "protect" no matter what. If that would mean prison for me, so be it. There is no price I would not pay to protect *any* loved one or a friend(s).

So, I guess I have also just answered my own questions concerning the death penalty. I still cannot celebrate the death of anyone, but choices made must be held accountable according to the crime done.

That happened last night. I wish healing for all involved. Heart peace...

 

[southcitymom]

I have asked the same question here, and the response has been that it's an unfair question and I don't actually get an answer. Which, in a sense, is an answer.

I don't think it's an unfair question. In fact, it's the type of question we should all be willing to examine when we think about the DP. I answered it for Glow on a different thread a few weeks ago.

Now, I will admit to entirely missing the leap it makes to the conclusion that only a person who would let a man walk out of their home with their sleeping child is truly anti-DP. I truly don't follow the logic.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I don't think it's an unfair question. In fact, it's the type of question we should all be willing to examine when we think about the DP. I answered it for Glow on a different thread a few weeks ago.

Now, I will admit to entirely missing the leap it makes to the conclusion that only a person who would let a man walk out of their home with their sleeping child is truly anti-DP. I truly don't follow the logic.

I think the leap is in the response some gave when they said they don't believe in killing anyone for any reason. They simply provided a scenario where someone actually would kill someone with no hesitation.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I don't think it's an unfair question. In fact, it's the type of question we should all be willing to examine when we think about the DP. I answered it for Glow on a different thread a few weeks ago.

Now, I will admit to entirely missing the leap it makes to the conclusion that only a person who would let a man walk out of their home with their sleeping child is truly anti-DP. I truly don't follow the logic.

I do have to agree with your statement concerning any person who would allow another to walk out with a child is anti-DP. I don't think that is a fair definition for any person.

There must be better analogy to help understand an anti-DP person? I can't think of one myself at the moment. It just seems so personal that I couldn't begin to try.

 

[Talisman]

Going to sound very callous here, so be forewarned:

Today it seems as if there is a little bit more fresh air to breathe. It feels less polluted and much lighter upon entering my lungs.

Just expressing my opinion (without popcorn!)

 

[XcomSquaddie]

Actually I don't think the question is entirely applicable to the DP.

IF this man broke into your home and you were alone there with your sleeping child, would you let him walk out the door with your child or would you kill him? No middle choices. He is GOING to walk out with the child unless he is dead - kill him or not?

This question is very applicable to the tenet of:
"All life is sacred, I would never kill anyone for any reason."

However, in regards to the Death Penalty, I don't think it is valid.

The question posits a "battlefield" decision, a "heat of combat" response. It is no different than asking a cop if he would shoot an armed robber, or a self-defense scenario.

These scenarios are emotionally charged, life-or-death situations where fear, adrenaline, anger and nerve influence your decision.


These are "hot" scenarios.


The Death Penalty is very, very different.


In an execution, there is no imminent danger. The defendant is essentially helpless. The psychological factors are different but just as strong. The massive machine of justice, the state is focused on one person. That person is going to die, pitifully, possibly painfully. They are alone, strapped into some device, in a cold, harsh room.

Added to that, is our fear of Death. Everyone fears death to some extent. Deep down inside, everyone imagines themselves in that position and it is truly a horrible one. We are all going to die, sometime, somewhere, and no one wants to die alone and afraid.

The Death Penalty is a "cold" scenario.

It is one thing to kill a man in the heat of battle. There is no time to think. It's do or die.

It is an entirely different thing to calmly and calculatedly activate a device and end a man's life. Both the condemned and those involved with the execution have days, weeks or even months to think about it.
.
.
.
That being said, I'd like to reiterate my stance. I support the Death Penalty. I think it should be administered across the board, regardless of race, religion or social status.

The Death Penalty should apply for crimes from murder, (1st and 2nd degree) some types of rape and child molestation. Any crime comitted with a gun should be elligible for the death penalty. (The logic being that if you pull a gun, you mean to kill someone.)

Ideally I think the condemned should be executed no later than 1 year after being sentenced.

The preferred method of execution should be hanging. The British calculated exact tables involving weight, age, etc. When used properly the chance of a botched execution is fairly small.

"Cruel and Unusual Punishment" does not, in any way, imply or guarantee a pain-free execution.

Hang 'em high.

 

[truecrimefan]

Killing someone INNOCENT is wrong. It is not wrong to kill some dirt ball who harms children.
Maybe that will help it make more sense.
Also most people are afraid of dying so to have that be the penalty is a deterrent. It does very well set an example for others! It lets others like this sicko know that if they commit a similar crime they can expect a similar punishment.. How is that not an example for others?

Killing anyone is wrong, IMO. What possible good comes from taking another human life? How could one person feel good about him/herself if they took another life? How is your life bettered if you took another life?
If you're on the jury that recommends a death sentence for someone, could you go through your life and not think about how you recommended for a man to be sent to the death chamber to be executed? If you're the executioner, you pull the switch, could you go home and say that your life was in any way, shape, or form better off because a condemned man was dead when he could have spent the rest of his life in prison w/o parole, instead? IMO, LWOP would be a better deterrent. Also, IMO, no judge/jury, anybody, has the right to say to anybody, no matter their crime, that they should die. I don't believe people have the right to play God and condemn a man to death and say he has the right to live or die. As I said before, I believe that makes the ones who condemn him no better than he is. I feel sorry for the ones who condemn men & women to be executed and for the one who pulls the switch because I bet they will never ask for forgiveness, as they most likely feel they've done nothing wrong in taking another human life. While I do feel compassion for the victim and their families, I also feel compassion for anybody about to be put to death and the family they will behind as well. All life is precious and nobody has the right to take it away, IMO.

I'm sure some people here think I'm defending the man who was executed yesterday, and I assure you, that is NOT the case. I know he was guilty of his crimes and he should have been punished, but I don't believe paying with his life was an appropriate punishment. To be locked up and unable to walk the streets again for the rest of his life would have been a more appropriate punishment.

 

[southcitymom]

I think the leap is in the response some gave when they said they don't believe in killing anyone for any reason. They simply provided a scenario where someone actually would kill someone with no hesitation.

You might be right. When Glow posited that "what if" to me on the other thread it was in response to me saying that I think it is wrong to take away another person's free will right to live, but that there are scenarios where that happens that we, as a society, find to be acceptable (ie - war, self-defense and, for some, abortion falls into that category).

The thing is - for me anyway - if someone were in my house trying to take my child, I would aim to stop him not necessarily kill him though if killing happened in my effort to stop him, so be it.

The key difference is that in Glow's "what if" the threat of harm is imminent - struggling to protect yourself or someone else from being hurt or killed is a very present, in-your-face-danger. I believe instinct and the will to live take over most rational thought in that type of moment.

The death penalty is cold-blooded - a lengthy, thoughtful, measured decision to kill. People can argue otherwise, but the reality is that when we execute someone, we aren't doing that because we consider them an immediate threat.

The strongest pro-death penalty arguments I've heard recognize that we execute people because their crime is so heinous that we, as a society, have to say - no, we will not allow this, you can no longer live amoung us. The arguments where people say "an eye for an eye vengeance is what we are after" are at least honest, though the do not hold much away with me. The arguments where people say we are doing this to protect society lose me entirely.

 

[j2mirish]

snipped by j2m

The strongest pro-death penalty arguments I've heard recognize that we execute people because their crime is so heinous that we, as a society, have to say - no, we will not allow this, you can no longer live amoung us. The arguments where people say "an eye for an eye vengeance is what we are after" are at least honest, though the do not hold much away with me. The arguments where people say we are doing this to protect society lose me entirely.

question- how is it possible you can be pro-choice, yet so adamment against the dp?

 

[southcitymom]

Killing anyone is wrong, IMO. What possible good comes from taking another human life? How could one person feel good about him/herself if they took another life? How is your life bettered if you took another life?
If you're on the jury that recommends a death sentence for someone, could you go through your life and not think about how you recommended for a man to be sent to the death chamber to be executed? If you're the executioner, you pull the switch, could you go home and say that your life was in any way, shape, or form better off because a condemned man was dead when he could have spent the rest of his life in prison w/o parole, instead? IMO, LWOP would be a better deterrent. Also, IMO, no judge/jury, anybody, has the right to say to anybody, no matter their crime, that they should die. I don't believe people have the right to play God and condemn a man to death and say he has the right to live or die. As I said before, I believe that makes the ones who condemn him no better than he is. I feel sorry for the ones who condemn men & women to be executed and for the one who pulls the switch because I bet they will never ask for forgiveness, as they most likely feel they've done nothing wrong in taking another human life. While I do feel compassion for the victim and their families, I also feel compassion for anybody about to be put to death and the family they will behind as well. All life is precious and nobody has the right to take it away, IMO.

I'm sure some people here think I'm defending the man who was executed yesterday, and I assure you, that is NOT the case. I know he was guilty of his crimes and he should have been punished, but I don't believe paying with his life was an appropriate punishment. To be locked up and unable to walk the streets again for the rest of his life would have been a more appropriate punishment.

Yes - a few people here seem to have made that ridiculous leap. This happens anytime the DP is discussed. Fortunately, I don't think most folks equate anti-DP with bleeding heart.

I agree with you completely that more killing never helps and is not what we as a society should be about.

 

[SewingDeb]

A poster on another forum asked if you would allow a rabid dog in your house? I see the death penalty as getting rid of pure evil. Someone who is a real threat to society if released (and we never know who might decide to release them later if given LWOP).

In Junny's case, the perp was given two life sentences and still released. The death penalty is final and ends the chance of release in the future.