FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #1

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seventeenseconds said:
Building the mental defense. God hope none of us ever are in this situation. I can't say what I would do. I mean if u can keep your son from prison vs a mental health facility. I don't know. Just thinking.


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I agree sweetie!

I wouldn't want to be a parent of any child with a situation like this, yes, in my heart, I feel sorry, but don't toss out defense theory of mental illness if you suspected it, and did not do anything to try to get him help.

There are things I could say that would make your hair stand straight up, but I can't due to TOS.

The Stevens' family did not deserve this, nor did the neighbor deserve to be stabbed(he tried to save them),those are the victims here..

Thanks ~

jmo :moo:
 
............. different forms of hallucination exist.

Some are internal - voices IN their heads.

Some are external - kinda like being screamed AT.

...... others involving non-existent smells or tastes.

common symptom of schizophrenia but they can also be caused by drug abuse or excessive alcohol intake, fever, bereavement, depression or dementia.


Different types of hallucinations

Visual hallucinations

Here, a person sees something that does not exist or sees something that does exist but sees it incorrectly.

Auditory hallucinations

This is the most common form of hallucination in schizophrenics and refers to the perception of non-existent sounds. ....patients often hear voices talking to them.... form of whistling or hissing,

The voices may be saying complimentary, critical or neutral words to them.

Command hallucinations may also occur . IE In this case "you must kill those two people in the garage , and do it now".. They ARE going to kill you. Bite him, bite him now, bite him now or die etc etc

Olfactory hallucination

These hallucinations involve smelling odours that do not exist. ..... as vomit, urine, feces, smoke or rotting flesh.

Tactile hallucination

.... person senses that they are being touched when they are not. One of the most common complaints is the sensation of bugs crawling over the skin.
.
Gustatory hallucination

..... taste something that is not present.

General somatic hallucination

... experiences a feeling of their body being seriously hurt through mutilation or disembowelment............... reported experiencing animals trying to invade their bodies, such as snakes crawling into their stomach.

http://www.news-medical.net/health/Hallucination-Types.aspx

PS .......... boy I may get in trouble ha! Now that he is awake I feel sorry for him. People dont hate in people with cancer, IMO there is no difference. He is sick.

If blame "must' come into play moo it rests more with the frat brothers than anyone else. Also educated.

It is beyond my grasp to think that no one around him did not know something is very wrong here.

A poster a while back made an interesting observation re drug screens coming back negative. Made me go much more to steroids as opposed to bath salts or frakka thing.

This is an educated, affluent, young man, in collage. It really would be weird for a dude to go right to an illicit drug like those two IMO.

It seems there would be a gateway deal .....

But moms statement about him not being into "heavy" (her word not mine!) drugs still haunts....

Maybe cause steroids are legal they did not process his use as a "bad" thing if that makes sense?

Hummm.....boy oh boy can you imagine if dad was actually getting him steroids cause (male) he identified with his sons craving a different body. Boy oh boy huh?


 
CARIIS said:
But for some reason I believe that he really did not have friends, and mom is in denial about that - that her son , in reality, was rejected by peers. At 19 the only online presence he seems to have is one of a very disturbed young man.
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I think he was a legacy pledge who really didn't have any friends, just acquaintances. It sounds like there was one or more people his age that had known him for years, just I don't get the impression those people were that close to him.
 
I think at that age, the people who considered themselves his friend don't want to say anything bad about him, don't want to make him sound any worse. They're all basically kids, don't want to be blamed or judged for drinking and partying together, maybe people will blame them saying they influenced him to do drugs. Believe me, they can imagine the worst scenarios. Afraid to get involved!
 
August 26, 2016
7:02 PM

FROM SPANISHINQUISTION'S LINK:

19-year-old accused of fatal attack in Martin County is awake and responsive at hospital

Austin Harrouff is slowly regaining consciousness but remains hospitalized and unable to talk to detectives, said sheriff's officials.


"He does appear to be alert," said Sheriff William Snyder on Friday afternoon. "He's responding by facial expression and head nods to his mother. He is not fully conscious yet though, but he is aware of his surroundings."


The 19-year-old Florida State University student hasn't been able to provide a statement about what happened the night of Aug. 15 when he's accused of killing John Stevens III, 59, and Michelle Mishcon, 53, in the garage of the couple's home on Southeast Kokomo Lane near Jupiter and Tequesta.


"He still has a breathing tube inserted down his throat, so he's not able to communicate other than head nods to his mother," Snyder said. "I think he smiled at his mother."


Harrouff has been at St. Mary's Medical Center in West Palm Beach since the attack and remained stable Friday but in critical condition, Snyder said.


"They're weening him off his pain medication and sedation," Snyder said, "so slowly, but surely, he's coming back online and will probably be fully conscious some time this weekend."


Detectives don't know when Harrouff will be medically cleared to leave the hospital, Snyder said, but they plan to arrest him then on first-degree murder and other charges.
 
SpanishInquisition said:
I think he was a legacy pledge who really didn't have any friends, just acquaintances. It sounds like there was one or more people his age that had known him for years, just I don't get the impression those people were that close to him.
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legacy pledge what does that entail??


Ninj!

Never thought about being underage!!
 
Please tell me LE and the FBI will also consider and check for steroid abuse and the idea of roid rage. Sounds like he actually did drink something caustic. Can't wait to find out what he drank and to hear the tox results.

In some of his videos he seemed to know he needed help. He must have not voiced that to anyone close to him. Now, we're probably going to hear how insane he was acting and how they were all very, very concerned and trying to help him. (cough) Sorry, this is the kind of case where I want to point fingers and blame and find fault for no one stopping it from happening. (Darn restaurant had slow service!)

Doctors have sent the contents of Harrouff's stomach to a laboratory for analysis to determine what caustic chemical from the couple's garage he ingested that's been keeping him in the hospital.

Sheriff's officials got Harrouff's medical records Friday and forwarded them to the FBI laboratory in Quantico, Virginia. Snyder said the FBI was waiting for the records before they began testing Harrouff's blood to see if the chemicals found in flakka and bath salts were in his system at the time of the attack.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d-2d-391426291.html+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
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https://twitter.com/JanaEschbach

from the sidewalk (obvoisly!

Dr Phil The full interview will air on Wednesday, September 7. That sure seems like a long time -- must be the lawyers request?








a first responder said of Harrouff over a radio transmission that night. “This guy won’t let go.”

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/news/crime-law/austin-harrouff-regains-consciousness-after-stuart/nsMXy/
CqkzdjkXYAAps2_.jpg
 
GeeEm said:
I agree sweetie!

I wouldn't want to be a parent of any child with a situation like this, yes, in my heart, I feel sorry, but don't toss out defense theory of mental illness if you suspected it, and did not do anything to try to get him help.

There are things I could say that would make your hair stand straight up, but I can't due to TOS.

The Stevens' family did not deserve this, nor did the neighbor deserve to be stabbed(he tried to save them),those are the victims here..

Thanks ~

jmo :moo:
Click to expand...

Oh hell yeah you got that right. If signs were there and ignored by dad and mom then they have blood on there hands for sure. I can't even put myself in the victims family place. My God there are no words. [emoji29][emoji29]


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The Stevens couple had a daughter living there and she had just moved out recently. She could've been killed too. That may be why the neighbor wasn't sure if it was her or Michelle he saw laying there.

Can't sleuth her, but I wonder if she's younger and maybe went to school with
AH or his sister. In any case, I imagine it must irk the daughter and the son with the grandchild John will never see to hear WH is going on Dr. Phil so fast and already pushing towards a mental insanity defense.
 
Curious Me said:
Please tell me LE and the FBI will also consider and check for steroid abuse and the idea of roid rage. Sounds like he actually did drink something caustic. Can't wait to find out what he drank and to hear the tox results.

In some of his videos he seemed to know he needed help. He must have not voiced that to anyone close to him. Now, we're probably going to hear how insane he was acting and how they were all very, very concerned and trying to help him. (cough) Sorry, this is the kind of case where I want to point fingers and blame and find fault for no one stopping it from happening. (Darn restaurant had slow service!)
Click to expand...
At this point I imagine they are requesting every tox screen available. Don't leave any stone unturned.
 
If AH is just gaining consciousness and can't talk yet--
Who gets to tell him that he killed two people and the disgusting details?
Does LE control what the parents say to him?
Will LE ask him questions, but not provide info?
I imagine his attorney will be present before he talks.
Do you think he'll be charged early next week?
 
I can't imagine how terrifying it would be to have any of those types of hallucinations, much less a combination of two or more. Thank God I don't have anything like that! And yes, if Austin has mental illness, I do feel bad for him. However, I think with mental illness in the family, I know darn good and well with his dad being in healthcare, he knows things like that are hereditary and at the first signs of a problem he should have been taken to his family doc who could have recommended a good counselor to get him started in the right direction. It's pure BS that he has only exhibited s/s of emotional problems for the past two weeks.
 
Curious Me said:
Thank You Mollyandme for researching that and providing info links. Can a person have a sudden psychotic break without any drugs involved, and go into a cannibalistic murderous rage, along with super human strength, seemingly out of nowhere? That's exactly what we're all wondering.

Got to run errands, and be back later after I read some.
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Just did some research on this and yes, it's possible. I still think steroid use and/or something else could be Involved but here's what I found in regards to your question:

The "superhuman strength" can come from the adrenaline and endorphins that are released in response to other factors during the psychotic episode, which doesn't have to be drug induced, it can just be from problems with the individuals brain Chemistry that get to a point of complete overload (it's more complicated than that but it is different for each diagnosis), so the adrenaline and endorphins can make the person move faster than they normally would and can cause their muscles to be able to lift more than normal just from the adrenaline and endorphins, but another aspect of this that keeps those experiencing this fighting and not being fazed by tazers or dog bites is the concept that the person is insensitive to pain during the psychotic episode, the technical term for this is hypoalgesia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4532169/

In terms of the cannibalistic aspect of this crime, I found one report that speaks about three types of biting in killers, but didn't specify whether the people studied were on drugs or not. It does mention that biting someone while killing them or after is "wild, sadistic, and animalistic." The three types they identified are: sadistic biting, anger-impulsive biters, and ego-cannibalistic biters. The ego-cannibalistic biter bites "in an attempt to satisfy ego demands by annihilating, consuming, and absorbing life essences from the victim."

http://www.all-about-forensic-psychology.com/support-files/forensicbiting.pdf

Also, psychomotor agitation is really common in people experiencing a mental health crisis and biting is one example of how it can manifest in more extreme cases.

So yea, that prob wasn't helpful but while we wait for more info I thought I would share.
 
glf said:
I can't imagine how terrifying it would be to have any of those types of hallucinations, much less a combination of two or more. Thank God I don't have anything like that! And yes, if Austin has mental illness, I do feel bad for him. However, I think with mental illness in the family, I know darn good and well with his dad being in healthcare, he knows things like that are hereditary and at the first signs of a problem he should have been taken to his family doc who could have recommended a good counselor to get him started in the right direction. It's pure BS that he has only exhibited s/s of emotional problems for the past two weeks.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on how much was latent and how much was drug-related, that could kick in quickly. I think he was having steroid psychosis/roid rage that brought about recent particularly unusual behavior that then went full tilt in the last week or two with him thinking he was invincible and would also match his YouTube posts where he talks about steroids where it sounds like stopped using them recently.
 
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