FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #1

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If AH is just gaining consciousness and can't talk yet--
Who gets to tell him that he killed two people and the disgusting details?
Does LE control what the parents say to him?
Will LE ask him questions, but not provide info?
I imagine his attorney will be present before he talks.
Do you think he'll be charged early next week?
These are really good questions. I have another to add:
Is it normal for his parents to have so much access to him at the hospital seeing as how he murdered two people and almost killed a third? Seems awfully nice of LE to let mom sit with him. (I don't know where I'm going with this, it just seems odd).

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I did not relaize until yesterday that she drove him back to the restaurant. That profoundly struck me as if she just was not in the mood to deal with one of "his" episodes.

If the fight happened in the home there was nothing that could be done- they live with each other.

It just hit me a really "off" to, get him in the car, drive over there, and let him out? What would be anyones "reason" to return him to dad in a public setting?? I am asking! I come up so empty.

He is 19, not a 7 year old-how did she get him to agree to go "back"?? Why? For what? What positive could happen by doing that? Better for them to have some space no?

Doing so after a delicious glass of Wesson Oil makes it all even more peculiar no?

I have wondered if her bfriend and her had plans or soemthing?


I can not come up with any reason other than that - anyone have any ideas why you would do that in identical scenario?? Its strange no?

Just struck me , for lack of a better word as a "dump"

moo

CARIIS - you and I are on the same page abt all you've posted. He is classic schizophrenic. He hid his symptoms with silence. He had no friends because he knew something was wrong with him and as part of that feeling, he could not engage or participate like your average 19 year old. I am quite certain their were signs and symptoms that had been going on for years. I am also guessing his episodes were happening with increased frequency and intensity. His mother dropped him off because she couldn't deal with it. As I said, his behavior, demeanor and breaks didn't just start, however he is the exact age that if one does have does schizophrenia - age 18 or 19 - it will rear it's head and take over full blown. His family failed him, no doubt. But it is a full time, endless battle to find and get help when your child is in and headed towards crisis. If you've got $200,000 a year to spend, there are inpatient 'homes/hospitals' for schizophrenic adolescents and young adults - there is one outside Chicago. This is a very serious health crisis our country has not addressed. Think of the VA senator whose son killed himseld and tried to kill him. HE went public with how difficult - for him, impoosibl -to get his son help. And sometimes there is a period of normalcy and you have hope. And until our govt addresses this issue, there will be more Adam L (Newton) and Nicole K (VA), David E, Josh P and Phillip Chism's. IMO, this 19 year old is the only one with schizophrenia. The others had personality disorders across the spectrum but none of those disorders hear voices or see things not there. Take note how all of these names listed were loaners. Take note how no one knows much about David E .... a freshman in college with no friends to speak of? But, this is important: none of these mental illnesses (alone) create murderers. In general, the mentally ill are more a danger to themselves than others. The difference is, SOME mentally ill have many multiple mental illnesses, a combination. SOME are evil, sadistic, self loathing, narcassistic, BPD, anti-social disorder, full of rage, obsessive, paranoid, multiple personalities, depression, anxiety, Or criminally insane - or psychotic and or a sociopath. Take any mental illness and add ANY drug to the mix or abuse of alcohol and anything is possible. Add to that a trigger event and there's likely to be a break. For some, it comes on gradually. For others, it's instaneous.

All JMO although the beginning of my education and career was in this field, and I grew up with a Mother who was extremely mentally ill my entire youth. She was paranoid schizophrenia and a combination of other things. As a result, I consider myself a survivor. It was terrifying living with complete unpredictabilty. And I was ashamed and embarrased. No one knew went went on inside that house.
 
Conversations you never want to have with one of your children:
Son, I know you probably don't remember anything, but the other night you killed two people and then you...well.....uhmm...this makes me sick...you...
 
These are really good questions. I have another to add:
Is it normal for his parents to have so much access to him at the hospital seeing as how he murdered two people and almost killed a third? Seems awfully nice of LE to let mom sit with him. (I don't know where I'm going with this, it just seems odd).

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There's a reason for that as LE has intentionally not arrested him in order to stick the family with the bills, but since he's not under arrest there's no criminal reason why someone in the hospital who is not under arrest would have the family denied access unless it is for medical reasons. Once LE takes possession of him, I expect things will change.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your experience. To anyone familiar with the disease, this is a classic case, yes. However, he did not exactly hide his symptoms. The anonymous frat brother revealed that he's been hearing voices. The Jupiter Police Department's call report mentions Austin's mom say he feels like a superhero but has also seen monsters. It's clear he's been responding to voices in his head and tried to prove to himself that he is indeed immortal by cutting and ingesting dangerous stuff. Enough people have known about these symptoms but it looks like no one really made a concerted effort to get him to a shrink that will prescribe Risperidone. The FSU frat is understandably reticent to say anything about him for fear of legal and PR issues. Plus they don't want to be associated in any way with him now that he's killed 2 people so violently. You won't hear pipsqueak from these guys. The mom is clueless but the dad should have known better. What was he waiting for? If schizophrenia runs on his side of the family tree, what did he think when Austin told him he's gonna protect him, that he feels evil presence in the backyard, when he kills birds with a loaded gun in someone else's backyard? As a health care professional, he should have known better and acted immediately. There was a pattern of behavior which was sufficiently diagnostic. Dad was a Johnny Come Lately and is now paying dearly for his failure to act.

CARIIS - you and I are on the same page abt all you've posted. He is classic schizophrenic. He hid his symptoms with silence. I grew up with a Mother who was extremely mentally ill my entire youth. She was paranoid schizophrenia and a combination of other things. As a result, I consider myself a survivor. It was terrifying living with complete unpredictabilty. And I was ashamed and embarrased. No one knew went went on inside that house.
 
There's a reason for that as LE has intentionally not arrested him in order to stick the family with the bills, but since he's not under arrest there's no criminal reason why someone in the hospital who is not under arrest would have the family denied access unless it is for medical reasons. Once LE takes possession of him, I expect things will change.

Someone was controlling access. His mother was allowed to see him for the first time on the 23rd.

http://cbs12.com/news/local/father-...ns-organs-are-failing-from-chemical-poisoning

His mother was allowed to visit him for the first time today since he killed the Stevens.
 
Conversations you never want to have with one of your children:
Son, I know you probably don't remember anything, but the other night you killed two people and then you...well.....uhmm...this makes me sick...you...

Considering he was lucid enough to issue the challenge regarding testing for drugs he may actually remember all or most of what happened. MOO
 
I think he was a legacy pledge who really didn't have any friends, just acquaintances. It sounds like there was one or more people his age that had known him for years, just I don't get the impression those people were that close to him.

I also thought he might be a legacy, but I can't find any connection. Dr. Harrouff attended The University of Tennessee, and they do not currently have a Alpha Delta Phi frat. Maybe they had one in the 70's but I'm not finding it.
I wonder how much of this started with his disappointment at not getting a football scholarship. If he was a big man on campus at his high school moving to a large university can be a huge shock to the ego.


 
I have not gotten the feel that we have been doing one thing or the other in a mutually exclusive fashion! I think it is more about us trying to put degree of influence in behaviors , over time, and then trying to figure out excaberation resulting in this hideous event

Very few mentally ill are violent.

MOO-- how anyone could spend some time on his you tube channel and not conclude that we have some completly off affective angle, disjointed thinking patterns, poor judgement, obsessive thinking, profound darkness and dispair, rage at the world,threats of suicide, disrespect for females, fascination with death and guns, truly convolted relationship to "teeth", impulse control concerns, peroids of intense mania,, lonliness, depression,delusionial thinking, problems making decisions (take steroids , dont take steroids, steroids are great, steroids are bad, steroids are necessay/unneccary), loss of contact with reality in some videos, peroids of sexual obession (lots of videos that are put out by pretty woman), and manic like increase in time spent on you tube in the days leading up to the assualt, violent video games, porfoundly morid music with vengeful lyrics might, correctly, conclude that mental illiness, was without question on the table and impacting his daily living on an increasing level.

I think most of us are trying to , for lack of a better word prioritize what influnced that night.

WIth the above being stated, some media who are claiming that dad is trying to start a insane defense to protect his son floor me. IMO, there is no debate as to if this young man was being ravished by malady known as mental illiness.

moo

Yes, I fully understand this. I think you may have misunderstood my post as it was in response to one singular poster who stated that they refused to have empathy for Austin's patents if they continued to take the path that he was mentally ill and that no, hr was simply pure evil (paraphrasing). I took issue with that alone. That comment left no room for trying to understand what influenced that night. We are all trying to understand. Some of us are simply waiting to hear what his additional blood work/testing might show and what a psychiatric evaluation could reveal as well. Carry on.
MOO.
 
Considering he was lucid enough to issue the challenge regarding testing for drugs he may actually remember all or most of what happened. MOO

Wow, I didn't think of that. Do you think he actually remembers beating them and the other disgusting details?

It's a mystery to me how he was so out of control and yet didn't actually attack any officers. The almost cutting his thumb off, but he didn't slit his wrists. Suicidal, or just so agitated ends up attacking others. Plus I'm finally starting to accept he must have drank something caustic as has been reported. Out of his mind, but he still communicated that they wouldn't find any drugs in his system.
 
Wow, I didn't think of that. Do you think he actually remembers beating them and the other disgusting details?

It's a mystery to me how he was so out of control and yet didn't actually attack any officers. The almost cutting his thumb off, but he didn't slit his wrists. Suicidal, or just so agitated ends up attacking others. Plus I'm finally starting to accept he must have drank something caustic as has been reported. Out of his mind, but he still communicated that they wouldn't find any drugs in his system.

Yes, I think he may remember. If not now, the memories might return later. Is he mentally ill or just plain evil? I don't know, but I'm very concerned by the way his father reacted. Especially the quote where he calls LE liars for saying his son was biting the victims.
 
It doesn't seem like these killings were intentional. I do think he had some dark thoughts about guns and knives that came out subliminally in the boating video. I'm not sure how he felt about his father. I also question his fascination with teeth and especially the picture of those filed sharp pointed teeth on his twitter. I don't know if he got a thrill when he killed the bird with the hand gun or he thought it was like a video game. Not intentional to me means it happened beyond having some control over the situation. It's easier to see pure evil in crimes like Jodi Arias where she intentionally premeditated every little detail down to the gas cans with such a nasty intention. JMO

.........................the things I think about before bedtime........:eek:fftobed:
 
CARIIS - you and I are on the same page abt all you've posted. He is classic schizophrenic. He hid his symptoms with silence. He had no friends because he knew something was wrong with him and as part of that feeling, he could not engage or participate like your average 19 year old. I am quite certain their were signs and symptoms that had been going on for years. I am also guessing his episodes were happening with increased frequency and intensity. His mother dropped him off because she couldn't deal with it. As I said, his behavior, demeanor and breaks didn't just start, however he is the exact age that if one does have does schizophrenia - age 18 or 19 - it will rear it's head and take over full blown. His family failed him, no doubt. But it is a full time, endless battle to find and get help when your child is in and headed towards crisis. If you've got $200,000 a year to spend, there are inpatient 'homes/hospitals' for schizophrenic adolescents and young adults - there is one outside Chicago. This is a very serious health crisis our country has not addressed. Think of the VA senator whose son killed himseld and tried to kill him. HE went public with how difficult - for him, impoosibl -to get his son help. And sometimes there is a period of normalcy and you have hope. And until our govt addresses this issue, there will be more Adam L (Newton) and Nicole K (VA), David E, Josh P and Phillip Chism's. IMO, this 19 year old is the only one with schizophrenia. The others had personality disorders across the spectrum but none of those disorders hear voices or see things not there. Take note how all of these names listed were loaners. Take note how no one knows much about David E .... a freshman in college with no friends to speak of? But, this is important: none of these mental illnesses (alone) create murderers. In general, the mentally ill are more a danger to themselves than others. The difference is, SOME mentally ill have many multiple mental illnesses, a combination. SOME are evil, sadistic, self loathing, narcassistic, BPD, anti-social disorder, full of rage, obsessive, paranoid, multiple personalities, depression, anxiety, Or criminally insane - or psychotic and or a sociopath. Take any mental illness and add ANY drug to the mix or abuse of alcohol and anything is possible. Add to that a trigger event and there's likely to be a break. For some, it comes on gradually. For others, it's instaneous.

All JMO although the beginning of my education and career was in this field, and I grew up with a Mother who was extremely mentally ill my entire youth. She was paranoid schizophrenia and a combination of other things. As a result, I consider myself a survivor. It was terrifying living with complete unpredictabilty. And I was ashamed and embarrased. No one knew went went on inside that house.

Great post! Thank you!
 
Just did some research on this and yes, it's possible. I still think steroid use and/or something else could be Involved but here's what I found in regards to your question:

The "superhuman strength" can come from the adrenaline and endorphins that are released in response to other factors during the psychotic episode, which doesn't have to be drug induced, it can just be from problems with the individuals brain Chemistry that get to a point of complete overload (it's more complicated than that but it is different for each diagnosis), so the adrenaline and endorphins can make the person move faster than they normally would and can cause their muscles to be able to lift more than normal just from the adrenaline and endorphins, but another aspect of this that keeps those experiencing this fighting and not being fazed by tazers or dog bites is the concept that the person is insensitive to pain during the psychotic episode, the technical term for this is hypoalgesia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4532169/

In terms of the cannibalistic aspect of this crime, I found one report that speaks about three types of biting in killers, but didn't specify whether the people studied were on drugs or not. It does mention that biting someone while killing them or after is "wild, sadistic, and animalistic." The three types they identified are: sadistic biting, anger-impulsive biters, and ego-cannibalistic biters. The ego-cannibalistic biter bites "in an attempt to satisfy ego demands by annihilating, consuming, and absorbing life essences from the victim."

http://www.all-about-forensic-psychology.com/support-files/forensicbiting.pdf

Also, psychomotor agitation is really common in people experiencing a mental health crisis and biting is one example of how it can manifest in more extreme cases.

So yea, that prob wasn't helpful but while we wait for more info I thought I would share.

Wrong! Wonderfully helpful!! sadistic biting, anger-impulsive biters, and ego-cannibalistic biters. Helped me a lot TY!

Just learned that I was involved in anger-impusvive in the hospital setting, and was trying to say (ha did not know that!) that IMO he was not an ego cannibaliistic biter, never knew about a sadistic characterization and IMO that fits!!

A poster a while back reminded me that dad was a dentist. Chills. At that point the truth about the father and the shirt collar had not been revealed.

He and his father were obviously conflicted, or did not really know or understand each other. Felt that way in the boating video too - no interaction. When he was sitting near his father on the back of the boat while dad was barking orders about how they were gonna relocate the anchor- the dad was ignoring him . Just sit there and shut up. Act like your interested in "the right" way to do it- when you could really care less.

How that paragraph emerged (!) is on his FB/Twitter not sure which one- there are big teeth on it. At that time it just sturck me as his dads a dentist. But we know more now. With just learning about sadistic biter category the tone of big teeth takes on a different meaning. And then all this ran through my head:



We now know it (the giant teeth on Twitterr or Fb) certainly is not a "tribute" to daddy. Biting is mean and full of hate when humans do it to one another. Was this a release of his hate for his father. Kinda like wonder if he had been "fantasing" about biting/huring/killing his father recently.



It strikes me as intense inner torment. He so wanted to be able to control this urge to strike back at his father .

Wildy ironic that the day of the attack his themes were dad you are in danger and I will protect you.

He did it to the male in the garage . I posted it earlier but their was a chilling lyric he wrote about biting in a rage.

Was dad in danger from HIS demons? Evidnece says there was blood on the sidewalk. Was he attempting to stop "himself" from doing (by stabbing himself) what the voices were telling him to do, by using his switchblade againist himself? (He liked showing his body, there would be signs of self mutlating behavior if there was a history of such behavior.)

And, an hour so before the attack ,dad attempts to choke him ("pulling at his shirt at his neck is a nice way of saying it IMO! Putting your hands around someones shirt collar is trying to choke someone -- lets be real !!! Trigger pulled - intensly enough to where he felt he had better get away from his father, and calmly exits.

But mom takes him back............

Hours later he is found bear hugged, around a male , in a garage, in house that might look like where his dad his lives, one block off from dads house, savagly biting a male?

If one thinks about it , in the very poor way I wrote this - it truly is chilling- was he sadistically killing his father that night. He stabbed the female (mother?) in the garage.

However, his slaughter of the male was much more intense, up close, personal , savage and rage filled. He did not bite the woman. LE conclusions regaring his streghth, might it actually have been-- so not wanting to stop biting the male (his dad?)

He was emmersed in the act. If one also visulaizes the way LE described what they were seeing, ("wrapped around" the victim- it can alternavily, give one an image of a hug ----- talk about conflicted emotions/thoughts).........................intense huh

Warning Graphic: Repulsive thought, but they are sick when responding to stimuli -- might Wesson oil be preparation (oiling teeth/mouth)

Pause there a minute.

......... In a profoundly disturbing manner, that makes some sense, as it relates to Wesson drinking oil , in light of what transpired shorly afterwards, - does it not? I wont be able to sleep tonight.

All just scary speculation - the power of an ill mind huh?

PS: not a fan of Freud.............just sayin'....................

Reminds me much of Omar/Pulse/his father relationship/killing gays/ etc
 
These are really good questions. I have another to add:
Is it normal for his parents to have so much access to him at the hospital seeing as how he murdered two people and almost killed a third? Seems awfully nice of LE to let mom sit with him. (I don't know where I'm going with this, it just seems odd).

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With him in critical condition, I don't think the LE would keep members of his immediate family away. LE would either be just outside the door or just inside the room. After all, pt and family could not be "plotting" a story to tell police since he was heavily sedated.
 
With him in critical condition, I don't think the LE would keep members of his immediate family away. LE would either be just outside the door or just inside the room. After all, pt and family could not be "plotting" a story to tell police since he was heavily sedated.
I get that. I just didn't think it was standard procedure to allow so much access to a violent offender. But what's poking at me is actually a reverse thought: if they haven't charged him yet, can they still "hold" him under arrest (handcuff to bed) all this time? Wonder what's the legalities here.

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I get that. I just didn't think it was standard procedure to allow so much access to a violent offender. But what's poking at me is actually a reverse thought: if they haven't charged him yet, can they still "hold" him under arrest (handcuff to bed) all this time? Wonder what's the legalities here.

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He isn't handcuffed to the bed.
"According to Snyder, Austin Harrouff is not handcuffed to his bed, but he is restrained and they have a deputy posted at his room around the clock to make sure he stays there. He says Austin is in critical but stable condition. Austin’s father says Austin is not doing well and won’t be getting out of the hospital anytime soon."
http://cbs12.com/news/local/sheriff-alleged-face-biting-killer-awake-responding
 
With him in critical condition, I don't think the LE would keep members of his immediate family away. LE would either be just outside the door or just inside the room. After all, pt and family could not be "plotting" a story to tell police since he was heavily sedated.

Someone was controlling access. I don't know if it was LE or medical, but his mother was not allowed to see him until the 23rd.
 
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