FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #1

[Inthedetails]

:wave: Hi! LE thought he took flakka and it didn't show up in the testing, but he might have been on steroids and trying not to take them which might cause roid rage. I think you'd get a lot out of watching some of the videos he posted on youtube beginning five months ago. JMO, he seemed to take on different personas and identities, and had mood swings.

Howdy!

I'll go back and review this case....really a strange one!!

 

[GeeEm]

I'm coming late to the case so forgive me if this has been addressed or not.

With him talking about having superpowers, I'm wondering if drinking the caustic fluids after the murder was part of that. Didn't The Hulk turn into The Hulk after drinking something? I'm not up on my superpower stories so I may have that wrong, but many stories over centuries having featured people turning into something else after drinking something. Just wondering if there is a connection here.



jmopinion

Oh come on Inthedetails, you only have 44 pages to catch up on!!! LOL

If you read this I was joking I promise!!
j/k I promise!

jmo :moo:

 

[Curious Me]

Hi Jax49

From your post and link, how does the sheriff know he drank caustic fluids after the attacks??

Harrouff suffered a severe cut to his thumb that Snyder said is consistent with his hand sliding down a knife-blade. He also drank a "caustic fluid" after the attack, the sheriff said.

Officials would not identify the substance Harrouff consumed, but solvents and common household cleaners were kept in the victims' garage.

Harrouff's father Wade Harrouff :liar: has said his son might have had schizophrenia(I'm Calling BS)or another undiagnosed mental illness. He also said his son's liver was malfunctioning because of the fluid he drank. Medical privacy laws have prohibited investigators from discussing the younger Harrouff's health.

Are they stating because his liver was malfunctioning, that is the known reason????? hmm

Do they know something we do not? :thinking:

Thanks ~

jmo :moo:

It's acceptable to be suspicious when sleuthing, IMO. I want to hear the medical details from LE and not his father. Liver malfunction could also be from steroid abuse -- you can grow tumors on the liver from steroids. I guess he drank something, but I sure would like to know what. His father has used the media quite effectively in slanting this towards sympathy for his son. It must really make the victims family and loved ones angry when they're all still mourning the victims being slaughtered like that.

 

[Curious Me]

He played football and wrestled — earning all-conference status — at Suncoast High School in Riviera Beach, from which he graduated in 2015. Snyder described him as “abnormally strong,” but friends called the 6-feet-2 -inch, 200-pound pre-exercise science major gentle and obedient.

“I didn’t think he would hurt a fly, to be honest,” said Matt D, the Chargers quarterback during Harrouff’s time as a defensive lineman. He said Suncoast coaches even had to encourage him to pressure the opposing offense more
angrily.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/ne...tequest/nsGgj/

What does "All-Conference Status" mean? It makes me wonder if he had some type of sports scholarship to college that would be in jeopardy if they found out about his steroid abuse. Is that why his father might have known about him using steroids and didn't take him in to get help? Worried about his son's bright sports future or college funding? I do question how much Dad knew. Perhaps Dad expected him to obey when he said just stop it, and thought he could force his son to stop acting up. Grab him by the collar and make him shape up. Just seems like he had so many arguments with his father in the last couple of weeks, and I do think AH was battling getting off steroids.

All JMO

 

[SpanishInquisition]

What does "All-Conference Status" mean? It makes me wonder if he had some type of sports scholarship to college that would be in jeopardy if they found out about his steroid abuse. Is that why his father might have known about him using steroids and didn't take him in to get help? Worried about his son's bright sports future or college funding? I do question how much Dad knew. Perhaps Dad expected him to obey when he said just stop it, and thought he could force his son to stop acting up. Grab him by the collar and make him shape up. Just seems like he had so many arguments with his father in the last couple of weeks, and I do think AH was battling getting off steroids.

All JMO

This is his 'all-conference' listing:
http://www.pbgametime.com/news/spor...ach-county-winter-all-conference-teams/nfBzH/

 

[GeeEm]

If your conference or league has eight teams, for example, then at the end of the season the coaching staff votes for the All Star players on the other seven teams (not their own). The votes are tallied, and the ones with the most votes (from the opponents) are All Conference.


Many times they have a First Team all conference and a Second Team all conference.

https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-need-to-do-to-be-all-conference-in-your-high-school-sports-team


The answer I know to be is the best player at his position in the conference, my nephew told me that. And I am still believing the steroid road for AH

jmo :moo:

 

[Inthedetails]

Oh come on Inthedetails, you only have 44 pages to catch up on!!! LOL

If you read this I was joking I promise!!
j/k I promise!

jmo :moo:

It's not on Thread 2 yet....I can do this.

 

[GeeEm]

From SpanishInquistion's Link I could only find Wrestling, nothing about football? anyone else?

WRESTLING
NORTH DIVISION

First Team: 106: Alex Radli (JUP), 113: Djokaef Jeanite (PBG), 120: Logan Singerman (JUP), 126: Ancytho Chevelon (PBG), 132: Peterson Aulibrice (PBG), 138: Jon Jones (SUN), 145: Jimmyson Jeanite (PBG), 152: Joe Eavarone 9JUP), 160: Nick Teodosio (JUP), 170: Ian Briscoe (DWY), 182: Wouvel Chevelon (PBG), 195: Xavier Kelly (PBG), 220: Tyrone Toson (PBG), 285: Austin Harrouff (SUN).


Conference Champion: Palm Beach Gardens.
Coach of the Year: William George, Palm Beach Gardens.

http://www.pbgametime.com/news/spor...ach-county-winter-all-conference-teams/nfBzH/

I hope it is ok to link the names if not please remove them, it is public MSM

Thanks ~

jmo :moo:

 

[Curious Me]

This is his 'all-conference' listing:
http://www.pbgametime.com/news/spor...ach-county-winter-all-conference-teams/nfBzH/

If your conference or league has eight teams, for example, then at the end of the season the coaching staff votes for the All Star players on the other seven teams (not their own). The votes are tallied, and the ones with the most votes (from the opponents) are All Conference.


Many times they have a First Team all conference and a Second Team all conference.

https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-need-to-do-to-be-all-conference-in-your-high-school-sports-team


The answer I know to be is the best player at his position in the conference, my nephew told me that. And I am still believing the steroid road for AH

jmo :moo:

Thank You Both. I don't follow sports much, well I was a Soccer Mom years ago, and I did enjoy watching the recent Olympics especially the Women's Volleyball.

All Conference Status -- It doesn't sound like the big deal I was imagining. Is it like a end of the season pat on the back then? What can you do with that status once you go on to college? AH wasn't high on the list. I guess I might've been wrong and he didn't get a special sports scholarship to college then.

AH sure got obsessed with his own body image, body building, and even Arnold. Then the steroid discussions on video. So driven in that goal that it might have led to his destroying his life, IMO. I wonder if his father wanted him to go into Dentistry.

 

[Curious Me]

It's not on Thread 2 yet....I can do this.

We're all cheering for you as you bike backwards, Inthedetails. :cheers:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~:sunshine:

.....................................:back:

 

[CARIIS]

or wearing a face mask like Hannibal Lector. Honestly, i wouldn't want him in the same hospital as me.

Thi



This is gonna sound weird, but I dont think he is a danger to anyone. He is mental, and or added substances to his ill mind. He has been in a hosptial, heavily sedated, which would (if it is steroid w/rawal in addition to mental) get him days into withdrawal.

psychosis responds to sedation -no better way to say it! And I am sure this is vocation related - I just dont view any of these folks as "evil" , or bad, I view them in the identical way I do someone suffering with cancer.

IMO it is a disease, a malfunctioing organ except in these instances its the brain.

By all accounts this was not (ublike Omar/ Lanza/ rogers compared to Holmes etc) he was not a mean kid. The opposite. Evidently had several skill sets and persued them sucesfully.

I dont think he would , at this point, harm anyone but himself. Imagine you authentically do not remember anything , to learn you did all of this.

All the way around , another fuc* up by our society regarding mental illiness. And it sure does not seem like we are making any progress as a nation.

Remember (all you youngins dont!) the this is your brain on drugs campaign? I think we need something like that regarding mental illiness, the warning signs as it relates mental and budding mass shooters etc

I realize we are no longer ABC NBC and CBS but it might be nice if FB Twitter and all the other nonsense would do equivelant of PSA's back then. at least an educated public might be helpful- it sure cant hurt at this point

Calling these sick folks evil , and going on does nothing.

I dont know any longer - it cant hurt imo-- there ARE reasons why we are so violent moo

I don't think it is related, but even so the Hulk didn't turn into the Hulk after ingesting antifreeze, weed killer or whatever you'd typically find in a garage...why he did that, I don't know. I think maybe a suicide attempt if anything.

Cant explain why I never thought suicide, I think the drinking was thirst related only. Just does not hit me , in those moments, that he had the capacity to feel remorse and want to die.

It is FL (again!) . Hot humid, had to be a physically draining event, sweating hideously. I just see this panting, wide eyed, thirsty, frenzied person.

Oh come on Inthedetails, you only have 44 pages to catch up on!!! LOL

If you read this I was joking I promise!!
j/k I promise!

jmo :moo:

Oh come on GeeEm you forgot the 487 links!!!! We are comprehensive here!!!

 

[CARIIS]

I, along with most people here, tend to see this as a fast developing mental illness perhaps triggered by steroid abuse or getting off them. However, this is exactly what the father is hoping for in the mental insanity defense.

Just for a moment, I want to try to flip my thinking to other ways of looking at this.
Suppose half of what the family said is made up after the fact? Mom didn't call the police until three hours later. Is there any way she could have known what he had done and then called police alluding to his strangeness within the last week? Could they all be exaggerating the mental illness angle to plea for sympathy for their son? How would I feel if this was just a young man strung out on street drugs?

No, I don't think so. The videos tell me he really was suffering mentally. He was off and kind of a loner not fitting in really. Even if this was brought on by drug abuse because I'm convinced he did do steroids, he still should've had professional help with that.

What the parents share about the delusional statements he was making and then that night the mental distress they must have seen with him leaving the restaurant twice, etc., His self-harm, his superhuman strength, the drinking something caustic, attacking complete strangers, the biting,-- all seem part of a psychotic break even if connected to roid rage. All the events leading up to the murders reveal warning signs the family were not taking serious enough to get him help, even if this was all brought on by drug use. I wonder what made them not get him help because they did have enough resource$.

The parents are going to have to admit the build up was not quite as sudden, they handled it wrong, ignored the signs, and that they failed to get him professional mental help in time to stop this from happening. At this point, I don't think it'll be a DP trial.

:cow: I'd love to hear your MOO too.

Hi curious!

just mo, I dont think family is "trying" to get a insantity defense - he was clearly out of his mind. Our legal system ignores all the things we have learned about mental illiness since the days of asylums.

The knowing the difference between right and wrong imo needs to go. We have learned that that is really not relevant but does not make them any less sick.

Is their frustration and anger at the family lies, the failure to repsond (as far as we know- I kinda think we might find out that they may have tried treatment earlier- he was 19 and adult .

And it is increased by dads medical background that excaberates this tradegy imo

Just like Holmes Batman- I beleived from day one that the sick guy thought he was the Joker and doing what he had to do, in his mind. I just found out they did try to get him help when he was 12.

As with all the cases we try to make sense of together, I really do not think I would feel "better" or miss less, (if someone who killed one of my family members ) got the death penality, I would oppose it.

And if we think about it its all moot. Takes the system 23 years to do it. Take all that money (for the trials) and put it into treatment. There was no question that Holmes did Batman. Look at all that foolish money wasted on the trial.

The congresswoman guy same waste. We still live in the pre internet age. Same thing with all these racial cop attacks. We have video - what is there to "investigate"? For years - Freddie Gray is still trudging along.

Noone is saying someone else did this horror. But we are gonna have a7 year trial. Build some psych hospitals, place them in secure settings, society is safe, and the ill person is treated. Sounds like a win win.

Becasue this family IMO has resources, this circus is going to go on forever. They are dead. What is the purpose? Soceity wise how do we benefit from this silliness?

He is sick. He did an atricous thing. Put him in hospital and be done with it. 8.9 million dollars not wasted.

Maybe we can make a fund! The MNWBPH fund (Money Not Wasted-Build Psyc Hospitals) bill!!

moo

FSU spring classes were over April 29th. Unless he took summer classes he could of been home for three ànd a half months. I find it interesting that he could of been home that long and dad only noticed a change in him the last two weeks.

Hummm interesting - his You Tube started 5 months ago.

Same thoughts glf, but what if AH fakes it sometimes?

Who actually knows what goes on in that hospital room, when the police are not in there, I understand he has a tube, but the father :liar:, oh well, that is a totally different subject, I see him plotting the whole defense theory to him! :no:

jmo :moo:

Hi Gee!

Same thing - we know he did it - so only mo dad is not "plotting" anything - he is sick. Nothing to plot- if that makes sense.

 

[glf]

It's not on Thread 2 yet....I can do this.

I made it thru 14 threads to get caught up on the Rhoden case, ANYBODY can make it thru 44pages! Give yourself some credit!

 

[CARIIS]

I made it thru 14 threads to get caught up on the Rhoden case, ANYBODY can make it thru 44pages! Give yourself some credit!

Rhoden was the hardest for me - not because I was behind - but I found :

Maybe DR was realted to HR but RR as it related to CR but CR2 said that BR told HR that HR was mad at DR which DR denied but MR said is true which was deied by HR while being confirmed by BR and DR and HR but the AG says FR Dr and MR was correct according to both GR and JR and DR and HR

Drove me batty!

 

[glf]

Since the liver is responsible for digestion, extracting nutrients, collects undesirable by products and harmful substances just to name a few, he could possibly have a damaged liver since it would try to digest and eliminate a poison caustic substance.

 

[Curious Me]

snipped post from CARIIS-- Maybe we can make a fund! The MNWBPH fund (Money Not Wasted-Build Psyc Hospitals) bill!!

I like that idea, CARIIS. It just doesn't feel right to watch someone with authentic mental illness go through a Death Penalty trial. Of course, some criminals do fake it and get away with it. In this case, the DP was mentioned early, and then the father right away started talking about a mental insanity defense. As I said, I doubt the state will decide to go for the DP. Yes, save the $$$$$$$!!!

Side note on another case if you're interested:
I'm following a case where the killer tried to kill himself with Tylenol right after he was arrested. He had some kind of mental illness yet his crimes were very planned and organized, then he acts totally catatonic in court. They sent him to a state mental facility for over a year, then back to jail awaiting his DP trial. While in jail recently, he and his cell mate both overdosed on drugs in what looks like dual suicide attempts. It'll be close to four years if the trial happens, and I doubt he'll get the DP, and in California that doesn't even happen, plus he's suicidal anyways.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Ilona-Flint-22-San-Diego-24-Dec-2013-3/page41

 

[jjenny]

:wave: Hi! LE thought he took flakka and it didn't show up in the testing, but he might have been on steroids and trying not to take them which might cause roid rage. I think you'd get a lot out of watching some of the videos he posted on youtube beginning five months ago. JMO, he seemed to take on different personas and identities, and had mood swings.

He has not been tested for flakka yet. FBI is going to do those tests.

 

[Curious Me]

He has not been tested for flakka yet. FBI is going to do those tests.

You're right. Oops, I got my drug testing mixed up.

The Sheriff’s Department said in a release that initial tests showed no sign of street drugs such as marijuana, heroin or cocaine. Harrouff’s blood, DNA and hair have been sent to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement for further testing, including testing for the synthetic drug commonly called Flakka. Test results normally take one to three weeks, although deputies have asked for expedited results. Autopsies of John and Michelle Mishcon Stevens showed the cause of death as multiple injuries and blunt force trauma, the sheriff’s department said.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article96217747.html

I'm going to throw this in from the article because I missed it in the beginning.

There were signs of trouble leading up to Monday night’s breakdown. Harrouff’s parents are divorced, and neighbors of the home where Harrouff was living with his father, dentist Wade Harrouff, this summer, say he seemed aggressive and rowdy. One neighbor told the Herald they often saw Austin partying with friends in the backyard. Another said father and son had screaming fights in front of the house.

Accused FSU face-eater: ‘I’ve got a psycho side and a normal side’
August 17, 2016 4:00 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article96217747.html

 

[Curious Me]

Please remember, I don't write the creative Daily Mail headlines, I just like to post them along with the link. Reminds me of the names Nancy Grace likes to tag on criminals she covers.

'Cannibal' frat boy Austin Harrouff finally emerges from 11-day coma and will be interviewed by cops investigating horrific double stabbing murder of Florida couple

Published: 14:17 EST, 26 August 2016 | Updated: 15:52 EST, 26 August 2016
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vestigating-double-murder-Florida-couple.html

Stevens's family has called for the death penalty.

'It is not super important to me what his mindset was,' Stevens' son John Stevens IV told the Sun Sentinel.

'I just want to see the prosecutor ask for the death penalty. I want him to go through that process and to pay for what he did.'

Speaking on Dr. Phil, Harrouff's divorced father, dentist Wade Harrouff, broke down in tears as he described the horror.

He said that after angrily leaving Duffy's Restaurant, Harrouff went to his mother Mina's home and guzzled vegetable oil.

It is then thought that the teen bodybuilder made his way back to the restaurant, before leaving for a second time and attempting to walk back to his father's house.

 

[Curious Me]

For those just joining in or catching up--
I want to add why it's possible and worth considering that Austin did do steroids, and even if trying to stop taking them, it may have triggered the recent mental disturbances.

In the last video, posted four days before the attack he talked about using drugs for his bodybuilding.

'I used to think that I needed steroids to be a bodybuilder. To be this thing. To be this symbol. To be this lie,' he said.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vestigating-double-murder-Florida-couple.html

........................I'm putting this to bed for the night.............fftobed: