FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #1

[Really?]

G'night curious......thanks for the updates.

 

[Jax49]

Hi Jax49

From your post and link, how does the sheriff know he drank caustic fluids after the attacks??


Harrouff suffered a severe cut to his thumb that Snyder said is consistent with his hand sliding down a knife-blade. He also drank a "caustic fluid" after the attack, the sheriff said.


Officials would not identify the substance Harrouff consumed, but solvents and common household cleaners were kept in the victims' garage.


Harrouff's father Wade Harrouff :liar: has said his son might have had schizophrenia(I'm Calling BS)or another undiagnosed mental illness. He also said his son's liver was malfunctioning because of the fluid he drank. Medical privacy laws have prohibited investigators from discussing the younger Harrouff's health.



Are they stating because his liver was malfunctioning, that is the known reason????? hmm

Do they know something we do not? :thinking:

Thanks ~

jmo :moo:

Here's an older article with some of the original details.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/fl-martin-county-face-bite-case-update-20160823-story.html

I can't find it now, but the sheriff was asked about the 'caustic fluid' and he would not identify it, but he intimated the perp had vomited at the scene. It is also possible his stomach was pumped at the hospital.

The earliest statement from LE didn't mention it was AFTER the attack. I believe what the sheriff means is during or before the attack. It should not have been possible for him to access something like that after the officers were there and the attack was stopped. (IMHO)

I missed the info about how LE believe his severe thumb injury occurred. I was mistakenly thinking it occurred before the attack.

The carnage in the garage makes it difficult to determine which weapons were used in the attack, officials said. An autopsy showed John Stevens died of stab wounds and Michelle Mishcon Stevens was beaten to death. A switchblade knife that Harrouff was known to carry was found at the scene, officials said.
Harrouff's hand wound left his thumb almost severed, a wound consistent with his hand sliding down the blade during an attack, Snyder said.

 

[CARIIS]

I like that idea, CARIIS. It just doesn't feel right to watch someone with authentic mental illness go through a Death Penalty trial. Of course, some criminals do fake it and get away with it. In this case, the DP was mentioned early, and then the father right away started talking about a mental insanity defense. As I said, I doubt the state will decide to go for the DP. Yes, save the $$$$$$$!!!

Side note on another case if you're interested:
I'm following a case where the killer tried to kill himself with Tylenol right after he was arrested. He had some kind of mental illness yet his crimes were very planned and organized, then he acts totally catatonic in court. They sent him to a state mental facility for over a year, then back to jail awaiting his DP trial. While in jail recently, he and his cell mate both overdosed on drugs in what looks like dual suicide attempts. It'll be close to four years if the trial happens, and I doubt he'll get the DP, and in California that doesn't even happen, plus he's suicidal anyways.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Ilona-Flint-22-San-Diego-24-Dec-2013-3/page41

I guess for me I am more worried about the ones that are menytally ill, but dont meet our outdated know the diff between right and wrong. IMO many peopple who are mentally ill know know the diff between right and wrong but that does not translate to that they did not behave or do what they did becasue of their illiness.

In some instances, someone suffering with schzophrenia , who needed to be placed in seclusion, would several ldays later be apologetyic, it does not mean IMo days earlier he/she could have stopped from acting out

I dont really undertand why it bothers people, fine some people might malinger and beat the system (people with money beat the system daily) they are still locked up , society is safe, and they have a nicer bed.

At the same time they are living with people who do not know who they are, are sedated they cant move etc. The system is game - noone is determing sanity/ insanity -- it depends on which doctors that are purchased have better social skills in front of a jury.

Or prettier , or handsome - noone is looking for the truth - each side pays off their doctor who then says whatever his paycheck needs him to say.

Our system worked 100's of years ago when , as a nation we had morality- and no doctor (most) would not allow themselves to be purchased for testimony.

Again the amount of money wasted on determining sanity to go to trial could be put in our fund! Gosh by this point we have so many hospitals we can help the majority of mentally ill people who need a structured life- how awesome - being humane to sick people in the USA - cool huh?

Hey think how unlolgged the system could get. Think about it Joe blow was fine, committed a hideous act, claims he is GUILtY cause he is insane. Hey he said he did the crime - admit him to a psyc hospital , in three days, next case your honor

My notion is the system was intially about guilt or innoncense - well the lawyer said he did it - he is guilty - sentence and move on.

In addition getting the death penality does not really mean a lot - it just cost scoety millions more (that could be put in our fund)

It is almost like arguing with someone who says they did it that they didnt?

Long ago it quit being about fidning the truth - guilt or innocne-its a racket. Its no different IMO than a football locker room. Preosectors gets a touchdown for guilty, a punt for no contest, and defense lawyers get a touchdown for not guilty, (allowing higher billable hours).

Most of the system exists on plea bargains - nothing to do with justice. Its about the charged admitting to all sorts of stuff they did not commit - to get it over with and knock the "risk" of incaration off the table.

Has nothing to do, any longer, with guilt or innocne, right or wrong, its big buessiness - just like Procter and Gamble keeping thier "Tide" sales humming along nicely $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[CARIIS]

Accused FSU face-eater: ‘I’ve got a psycho side and a normal side’
August 17, 2016 4:00 PM
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/stat...e96217747.html

How is dad posturing anything - the young man himself, before he killed anyone had moments of clarity where he knew things were not going well and escalating?

 

[Jax49]

What does "All-Conference Status" mean? It makes me wonder if he had some type of sports scholarship to college that would be in jeopardy if they found out about his steroid abuse. Is that why his father might have known about him using steroids and didn't take him in to get help? Worried about his son's bright sports future or college funding? I do question how much Dad knew. Perhaps Dad expected him to obey when he said just stop it, and thought he could force his son to stop acting up. Grab him by the collar and make him shape up. Just seems like he had so many arguments with his father in the last couple of weeks, and I do think AH was battling getting off steroids.

All JMO

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2016/08/16/who-austin-kelly-harrouff/88873480/

• He joined the wrestling team at Suncoast as a sophomore and was named captain before his senior year.
• He played football at Suncoast High School in 2014-2015. He was listed as 6 feet tall and 200 pounds, and from Jupiter.
• He was interested in playing football in college, according to his statement on the National Collegiate Scouting Association's website. He is not a member of the FSU football team.

As I understand it, he wanted a football scholarship but was unsuccessful.

 

[CARIIS]

Please remember, I don't write the creative Daily Mail headlines, I just like to post them along with the link. Reminds me of the names Nancy Grace likes to tag on criminals she covers.

'Cannibal' frat boy Austin Harrouff finally emerges from 11-day coma and will be interviewed by cops investigating horrific double stabbing murder of Florida couple

Published: 14:17 EST, 26 August 2016 | Updated: 15:52 EST, 26 August 2016
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vestigating-double-murder-Florida-couple.html

There seems to be confusion (surprise) did mom take him back or

t is then thought that the teen bodybuilder made his way back to the restaurant, before leaving for a second time and attempting to walk back to his father's house.

makes the wesson oil thing scarier if he, on his own accord, went to moms to lube up his teeth and went back to dad?

Was it hi mom gulp gulp gulp exit ??

It just occurred to me her making a dining suggustion ( adding cheese) is passive agressive, like he is not gonna get a rise out of me :Why dont you add some cheese sweetheart " and leave the room

 

[CARIIS]

Here's an older article with some of the original details.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/fl-martin-county-face-bite-case-update-20160823-story.html

I can't find it now, but the sheriff was asked about the 'caustic fluid' and he would not identify it, but he intimated the perp had vomited at the scene. It is also possible his stomach was pumped at the hospital.

The earliest statement from LE didn't mention it was AFTER the attack. I believe what the sheriff means is during or before the attack. It should not have been possible for him to access something like that after the officers were there and the attack was stopped. (IMHO)



I missed the info about how LE believe his severe thumb injury occurred. I was mistakenly thinking it occurred before the attack.

That is amazing - I never heard of vomit or stomach pumping which makes total sense. Why not just release that he drank terpentine -- what would releasing that hurt??

 

[Jax49]

Thank You Both. I don't follow sports much, well I was a Soccer Mom years ago, and I did enjoy watching the recent Olympics especially the Women's Volleyball.

All Conference Status -- It doesn't sound like the big deal I was imagining. Is it like a end of the season pat on the back then? What can you do with that status once you go on to college? AH wasn't high on the list. I guess I might've been wrong and he didn't get a special sports scholarship to college then.

AH sure got obsessed with his own body image, body building, and even Arnold. Then the steroid discussions on video. So driven in that goal that it might have led to his destroying his life, IMO. I wonder if his father wanted him to go into Dentistry.

I believe the list published was by Weight Class (lightest to heaviest), meaning he was the best at the highest weight. Literally a big man on campus at the high school level. IMHO, that changed dramatically when he went away to college. He was seeking a football scholarship but did not get one. I had close contact with a high school star athlete who failed miserably at the next level--it was devastating.

 

[Jax49]

That is amazing - I never heard of vomit or stomach pumping which makes total sense. Why not just release that he drank terpentine -- what would releasing that hurt??

HIPPA privacy rules.

 

[glf]

When somebody ingests a caustic substance, it would be evident to LE, as he would have burns around his mouth and inside his mouth. Doc would have to decide if pumping the stomach would be the right thing to do. He already has stomach, esophagus, throat and mouth burns, do we pump his stomach, causing more burns, or give him something to help the burns already there? But I am thinking he probably started throwing up once they got him to ER, and they saved some of that for lab analysis. With bile, partially digested food, cooking oil and poison mixed together, med staff might have not been able to tell what the poison was from odor alone. The cooking oil alone should have made him throw up.

 

[CARIIS]

HIPPA privacy rules.

I dont get how that is HIPPA violation. If he vomited at the crime scene why would that be different than saying there copious amount of blood at the location?

My larger confusion is how would releasing what he injested impact the investigation??

 

[CARIIS]

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/news/2016/08/16/who-austin-kelly-harrouff/88873480/



As I understand it, he wanted a football scholarship but was unsuccessful.

You sound sports knowledgeable. He wrote something for these folks National Collegiate Scouting Association's . I wanted to read it to see how how he wrote, what he said about him self etc.

I went to thier website but it asked way to many questions - sports questions! That will make sense if you go to the site!!

Can you see if you can find it? Media made it sound like they had found it and that is was on this website.

TIA!

 

[Jax49]

You sound sports knowledgeable. He wrote something for these folks National Collegiate Scouting Association's . I wanted to read it to see how how he wrote, what he said about him self etc.

I went to thier website but it asked way to many questions - sports questions! That will make sense if you go to the site!!

Can you see if you can find it? Media made it sound like they had found it and that is was on this website.

TIA!

I found his Personal Statement by googling national collegiate scouting association austin harrough. I was able to read the statement and view two videos highlighting his football career.

The statement seemed unremarkable to me. A few typos.

ETA: I haven't found it on MSM, but I'll keep looking.

Got it:

http://cbs12.com/news/local/face-eating-suspect-austin-harrouff-in-grave-condition

 

[CARIIS]

Tid Bits

Another website of his

https://www.tilt.com/users/aharrouff

Anyone good with maps etc and interested in victims house from where dads was this may be a help

http://www.spokeo.com/Austin-Harrouff/Florida/Jupiter

horrible with maps/directions etc

Highlight reel of him in high school

http://www.hudl.com/video/3/1081726/5721b13dc124573b54478356

Looks like he had several Twitter accounts

https://twitter.com/austinharrouff

https://twitter.com/harrouff123

Weighlifting history

http://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/...fting-boys/archives/2013-14/district/1a-9.pdf

 

[Jax49]

I wasn't familiar with the NCSA but it appears to be a company where athletes or their families pay for help getting a scholarship. I wonder if AH just used the extremely limited free service, or did they paid big bucks and still not find one.

 

[CARIIS]

Dont wanna deal with the edit time out thing

con't

more sports history

http://www.fhsaa.org/sites/default/.../wrestling/archives/2013-14/district/2a15.pdf

http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/austin-harrouff/JuwLovTwEeKZ5AAmVebBJg/default.htm

 

[CARIIS]

[h=3][FONT=&quot]I just wanted to see how he views himself back then caps not me ![/FONT]

PERSONAL STATEMENT[/h][FONT=&quot]I am enrolled in the IB program at Suncoast Community High School. According to Newsweek, Suncoast was #9 of 2013's America's best high schools.It is a rigorous academic program and I have maintained a 3.35 GPA. I am seeking to attend a pre-med program in college. I would love to play football in college while attaining this goal.


[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I joined the football team in my freshman year. I mainly played as a defensive tackler. This coming year, i will be playing on both the defensive and offensive line. I have learned to discipline myself on and off the field. I have conditioned my body in a short period of time to be one of the strongest on the team. I paused pressed 365 Ibs by my junior year. Off season, I joined the wrestling team in my sophomore year and I was the most improved player by my junior year. I will be the captain in my senior year. I placed third in the district. I also joined the weightlifting team this past year and made second in the district. I also have a more current hudl video at http://www.hudl.com/athlete/1081726/highlights/66794375[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I would be a great asset to your football team. I love the competitiveness of the game and I have the drive to improve. Thank you for considering me.

http://www.ncsasports.org/football-...uncoast-community-high-school/austin-harrouff[/FONT]

 

[jjenny]

How does one conditions body in a shortest period of time to be the strongest? It takes time to get muscle mass unless one is using steroids. If he had underlying psychiatric disorder, such as schizophrenia, steroid use would unmask that. It could also cause "roid rage' if he decided to stop using. I don't think tests are going to find "flakka" but I think there likely was potentially long time steroid abuse.

 

[Jax49]

[video=youtube;KG-Y5vlVIl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG-Y5vlVIl8"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG-Y5vlVIl8[/video]

If anyone is interested, the sheriff talks about the fluids recovered at the crime scene in this 16 minute press conference (at about the 8:30 mark).

 

[Curious Me]

Here's an older article with some of the original details.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/florida/fl-martin-county-face-bite-case-update-20160823-story.html

I can't find it now, but the sheriff was asked about the 'caustic fluid' and he would not identify it, but he intimated the perp had vomited at the scene. It is also possible his stomach was pumped at the hospital.

The earliest statement from LE didn't mention it was AFTER the attack. I believe what the sheriff means is during or before the attack. It should not have been possible for him to access something like that after the officers were there and the attack was stopped. (IMHO)

I missed the info about how LE believe his severe thumb injury occurred. I was mistakenly thinking it occurred before the attack.

The carnage in the garage makes it difficult to determine which weapons were used in the attack, officials said. An autopsy showed John Stevens died of stab wounds and Michelle Mishcon Stevens was beaten to death. A switchblade knife that Harrouff was known to carry was found at the scene, officials said.
Harrouff's hand wound left his thumb almost severed, a wound consistent with his hand sliding down the blade during an attack, Snyder said.

:waitasec: You found it. Thanks. I was going to bring this up because I remembered seeing that, but couldn't find the article. But then, they started reporting he cut his thumb on the way and there was blood found in front of some other house on the way to the killings. Which is it? I can see getting a thumb wound from the stabbing easier than him almost cutting his thumb off before stabbing someone. But the blood was found elsewhere.

:thinking: Confusing timeline details. Drinking the oil, then drinking the caustic fluid is another mystery. I keep thinking his stomach was bothering him for some reason and he wanted to coat his stomach to calm it down. Well, don't ask me, it's hard to figure out. :dunno:

BBM