FL - Michelle Mishcon, 53, & John Stevens, 59, murdered, Tequesta, 15 Aug 2016 - #1

[CARIIS]

woke up, this is weird. The self talk is two people are dead, another emotionially scarred for life. I sure as heck am not ra ra LE, they too have been trumatized.

BUT, there is a hoping for outcome, that is confusing. Repeat above once (beats typing). I have never hoped for an outcome.


Don't want it to be bathsalts, their is inherent blame there. At the same time, that makes it more "safe" - if people dont do bathsalts then this wont happen.

Then its like what is that about? You have wrestled psycotic people to the ground. You have had relationships with these folks who so suffer as a result of their illiness. You know there is nothing evil about these folks - they are sick. There brains do not work. Or work too much.

maybe I am hoping for pure mental cause that puts this in a place I can comprehend?

Steroids are in the middle. That age group has been cursed with an ever possesed focus on how they look on the outside. WIth this false notion if they eat apples instead of french fries they can somehow control and delay outcomes - dying.

So steroids has a 'understandable thing" to it. Its just like Rx addiction, the fantasy that cause it is prescribed it is somehow safer that cra& like bathsalts.

Ill be careful but its easier to focus anger at this on others who may have missed the boat.. But that takes it back to this place, as long as others dont do that, it is preventable to some degree?

I guess what I am trying to express is I have never "hoped" for one reason over another before.

What is THAT about?? Very strange.

 

[CARIIS]

Imo. He got high and killed his mother and father. Jmo.

He was mad at them. And then got high and killed a couple that he probably seen as his parents. Jmo.

So imo. He wanted to kill his parents but loved them too much. So he killed another couple. Jmo.

Because we all know that some men have killed other people because they were simply mad at someone else.

Example. A guy would be mad at his wife. And then get high and rape and kill some innocent female that he doesn't even know.

Jmo. It happens all the time.

So his parents should feel lucky that he loved them so much but decided to vent his anger on others. Jmo.

So. Imo. This wasn't the drugs fault. It was simply him killing his parents in his mind. Jmo.

Hi my Dexter!!

Expected you here much earlier! Nice to "see" you!

No matter the actual preciptor, I def think it is about his parents - mostly his father - but the classic mom did not help me "from" dad.

jmo

Feel, again the need to say, I am not fruedian, but the teeth fetish, in light of the whole mess, is more than both, breathtaking and totally chilling imo......................

 

[GeeEm]

Here's some fresh details that are off a search warrant:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...homicide-hom/nsPr3/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Blue liquid in an ice tea bottle? If that's where he put anti-freeze, that sounds like he did this sometime earlier (maybe he wanted the cooking oil as a chaser) or that he entered there garage and then Mishcon came out rather than one or both of them being in the garage from the beginning.

Thank you for the update SpanishInquisition, maybe the blue liquid could be Gatorade?

An inventory shows that investigators found, among other items, a corkscrew, a sock with blood, a blue liquid from an ice tea bottle, sneakers, a red hat, and one 1.75-liter bottle of Dewars scotch.

That's a lot of liquor!

A sock of blood? Was it his, will have to go back and look at the photo of him walking out of the restaurant

Corkscrew? On keychain to open bottles with? Just a guess?

Red Hat? I think he was wearing a red baseball cap, again will have to go back and look at the video


jmo :moo:

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Here's more details on the crime scene from another local paper, which I think this explains some of the items recovered as there was a stocked bar in the garage:

Dougherty can't say for sure whether the corkscrew, which was covered in blood, was used in the attack because everything in the garage was covered in blood, he said. The corkscrew came from a bar inside the garage that also had multiple liquor bottles.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...214-391954751.html+&cd=29&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[GeeEm]

Here's more details on the crime scene from another local paper, which I think this explains some of the items recovered as there was a stocked bar in the garage:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...214-391954751.html+&cd=29&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Oh thank you again SpanishInquisition! We probably won't find out exactly what belonged to whom, until it all goes to trial, would be my guess!

I wonder how much longer he will be in the hospital, or if the murderer is buying his time, just a thought in my head!!! :thinking:


jmo :moo:

 

[Jax49]

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/crime/ma...kscrew-knife-3b65e26f-efe3-214-391954751.html

A switchblade knife found in a pool of blood in the driveway fit the description of a knife given to Harrouff about a week before the attack

I missed that the knife was given to AH just a week before. Do we know WHO gave it to him? I'm also still wondering it if it was legal.

 

[CARIIS]

Well it sounds to me like he stopped somewhere to get the scotch and "blue liquid" before he arrived at garage. I wouldn't assume he had these items when he left restaurant. The video images clearly show him empty handed.

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I am a bit confused. What makes some think he bought any of these items with him? When i was first getting caught up, I instantly thought about everything being in the garage? Theirs.

 

[CARIIS]

Thank You for today's article. Blue liquid in ice tea bottle--tell me they tested that already. I don't go for any fake dyed blue foods or drinks normally. I guess it could be Gatorade. Oil would coat the stomach, but Scotch being alcohol would strip the coating. Where's the wine bottle to use a corkscrew on?

His shorts were never recovered. How was he carrying this stuff?

There is another thing the media is not following up on. The sheriff clearly said there was blood INSIDE the guys car??

 

[CARIIS]

Rich, white male kid with affluent parents with good attorneys. They don't dare leak any info.
This case is bizarre but I don't recall any media outlets like Nancy Grace discussing it even.

So agree, the system is totally about money.

OJ did nothing. BARF

 

[Curious Me]

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/crime/ma...kscrew-knife-3b65e26f-efe3-214-391954751.html

A switchblade knife found in a pool of blood in the driveway fit the description of a knife given to Harrouff about a week before the attack

I missed that the knife was given to AH just a week before. Do we know WHO gave it to him? I'm also still wondering it if it was legal.

News to me. Got the knife only a week ago! I thought I read his mother said he always carried that knife. I'm being an owl with you, Jax,...WHO...WHO gave him that knife which I believe was a switchblade?

"My crime scene guys are gatherers," said sheriff's detective Lt. Michael Dougherty late Wednesday. "They take whatever they can — whatever they think might could have been a part of it some day ... The crime scene guys are taught to think ahead."

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/crime/ma...kscrew-knife-3b65e26f-efe3-214-391954751.html

 

[CARIIS]

I don't understand the victim blaming either. Only a criminal would blame the victim.

I have not read anything about blaming the mother in the other case- is that happening??

That is just silly -watching someone, outside your window become a cannonball would be utterly scary imo

Would like to see a pic of the son , in terms of size, to get an idea of how strong the drug made him. The kid is small

 

[glf]

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/crime/ma...kscrew-knife-3b65e26f-efe3-214-391954751.html



I missed that the knife was given to AH just a week before. Do we know WHO gave it to him? I'm also still wondering it if it was legal.

If I remember correctly, a switchblade type knife carried in a pocket would be a concealed weapon in Kan, and probably plenty of other places as well. And possibly even a heavy duty pocket knife with a 5 in blade.

 

[CARIIS]

Most parents put themselves in his parents place with understanding that it's sometimes beyond our parental control to stop a 19 yr. old from making their own bad decisions and making stupid mistakes. AH made videos we all got to see, but there's plenty of other teens with questionable FB and other social media profiles pages we see after the fact. I know we see red warning signs now that he's committed these crimes, but we might've thought he was just another teen taking endless selfies, acting goofy or strange, even if he was our child. Not sure he was even living at home, and that makes it even harder to monitor his actions or behavior.

I just think it was a mistake for the father to speak too soon to media and do a tv show before understanding anything about his son's crimes. It almost invites judgment when father tells us the signs he was seeing and didn't do anything. I realize it makes him feel like he's doing something now by rushing in to take control of public opinion or which direction it will go legally for his son. It just comes across as too soon. Tox results aren't even in. The victims families are still reeling with grief.

But you bet I'm going to watch Dr. Phil because I'd like to know what the father has to say and see if he can help me understand how this tragedy happened.

I dont think the interview is gonna be much help. It was attorney written, and controlled. The air date in and of itself imo, indicates how totally controlled this was.

PR

There is no media outlet that would not air the interview live - for some reason the lawyer must have demanded that the interview be held for several weeks before airing.

That in and ofself IMO tells the story


Cant stand Phil - I think he is a controlling therapist, I think he uses shame on folks, is judegemntal, beleives he has the right to tell anyone how to live their lives.

He is everything I dispise in colleagues. Good therapy is not standing in front of a client , with your hand out pulling them in some direction.

IMO good therapy is standing right by your pts side, exploring what direction the pt might be willing, have the capacity and want to go.

Anyone can get yanked in some direction someone "should" go. Parents, spuses, friends, can "should" others to death. Noone needs to come see one of us , and pay, for stuff they can get from others arouond them!! Free!


Its standing IMO WITH the pt, not pulling anyone anywhere there are not ready or cant go

moo

cant stand him!!!

 

[GutInstinct]

Just my thoughts on what we've learned so far -

AH has most likely had some element of mental illness since puberty. It may have depression, bi-polar, generalized anxiety, social-anxiety, OCD, At the age of 18, if one is predisposed to become schizophrenic, that is the age when the majority of those who will become schizophrenic begin to experience its debilitating symptoms. And yes, the symptoms scream that something is terribly wrong. IMO, AH was also (screaming) for help. IMO. No normal 18-year old posts on the indelible internet the types of things he did - for the whole world to see. Just his videos alone would alienate and ostracize him from the traditional, college-going/career-minded 18 year old. For someone who cared so much about his physical appearance, sharing his bizarre thinking and behavior on public channels -- even going so far as admitting online - I have another side - a crazy side (I don't remember the exact words) but anyone who saw it and knew him would have told others about it - and he would no longer, not ever again, be accepted in whatever circles he did, at one time, participate. Again, screaming for help.

Schizophrenia itself does not drive one to murder. However, schizophrenia combined with other mental illnesses, drug abuse, prolonged stress, feeling incapable, inadequate, inferior, and unworthy perpetuate self-hate which translates into increased rage,. And unless that pent-up rage and anger is dealt with professionally, any trigger event (particularly if it comes from the person this person blames for his stress and emotional trauma) can throw the seriously mentally ill into full-blown psychosis.Whatever happened in that restaurant was the final trigger. And once one's brain and nervous system go into complete psychosis, there is complete absence of reality: hallucinations, hearing voices that command specific action, irrational paranoia that someone or someone is doing something (which they are not) and uncontrollable voices that repeat and repeat what one, by now could 100% believe he/she is anything from superman to God; have super-human powers like being able to fly, jump from buildings, and worse.

People in psychosis, as was A. Yates who drowned her five children don't try to hide their actions. People like D. Eisenhauer who murdered an 11-year old and tried to get away with by hiding her body. DE knew right from wrong. J. Arias tried to hide her actions. She also knew right from wrong. Obviously, AH didn't try to hide what he did, he did it right inside an open garage door.

As far as his hospital stay, I am certain he is restrained 100% of the time. He committed two murders.

We don't know much about his biological mother or step-mom. And we know some things about his Dad. But WT rules don't allow us to pass judgement on this forum. So, I will speak for myself. I have a 20 year old son in college. My side of the family has a history of mental illness. His personality did begin to exhibit signs of distress around 11th grade. Losing our home to Hurricane Sandy during that same year didn't help. I observed him like a hawk and still do, every single day, every word, body language, and general behavior. Took him to counseling, and then to a psychiatrist. Today, he takes meds for depression & anxiety (Lexapro) and is stabilized. However, during 'down times' (winter breaks, summer breaks) when he is not busy, the symptoms and behavior begin to surface again. I pray that nothing more severe will surface during his adolescent years.But right now, I am not 100% certain they will not.

As far as the items LE mentioned they had found, IMO, most of those items belonged to the victims and were inside their garage. Maybe, AH picked up the knife at his Mother's house after or before he drank the oil. j IMO when he drank the oil at his mother's house, he was already in psychosis. Who knows what he was thinking but I don't think it was calculated or rational (as in coating my stomach before I do x). Whatever his behavior at her home - she seemingly had no interest in dealing with it.

The blue liquid could have been anything from windshield wiper fluid to blue caracu (spelling?), a blue liquor used in certain cocktails. IMO the whiskey was in the garage. Perhaps they had a bar set up in their garage for visitors who stopped by since they supposedly spent alot of time sitting in their garage with the garage door open. I think he drank anything and everything he could get his hands on after the murders and before the act of cannibal..... It's not like he murdered and ran. He murdered, drank stuff in the garage, and then went back and continued the horrific acts - door wide open, neighbors next door, neighbor even discovered what was happening...and still he didn't run.

As for college, I think CARIIS is correct; in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we learn he did not even attend school during the Spring 2016 semester.

As someone posted earlier up thread, should he live, he will either spend the rest of his life in a psychiatric institution for the criminally insane or in solitary confinement, as a high-risk prisoner.

ALL completely my own opinion.

 

[CARIIS]

I have done some deep soul searching in regards to this case. I put my son in AH place. Assuming I missed the signs/looked the other way at him changes, what would I be doing in their exact position?...
I would be doing ANYTHING I could to try and salvage any inch of his life for him. I cannot imagine the pain of his victims families, but I can imagine MY pain if I experienced having my much loved son in the position AH is in now. His entire life is over. My access to my flesh and blood son is forever restricted. His future is over. I can imagine this so clearly it takes away my breath.
Having admitted to the above, I honestly cannot speak against his family for doing everything they can to protect him. Wrong or right, I understand this. It is a gut reaction. Natural instinct. I cringe at the father's public behavior though, crying on TV. It's inappropriate and offensive to his sons victims.
I speak from some knowledge here. My husband's brother committed murder against his gf. I watched how it destroyed her family AND our family. Btw, you don't stop loving your child because he commits an atrocious act. And my in laws spent years beating themselves up for missing his increased psychosis, and unable to stop his addictions. (he was mentally ill and on drugs).
Anyway, I just wanted to speak for the other side for a second. My heart breaks for the children of the victims. My heart beats hard for the mom of AH because this pain I've seen. This pain I understand.
Rambling, sorry.

Ot: no bugs on the home front lately. My two little doggies been eating those nasty camel crickets before they can get near the house!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Ninj must be so hard.

Sorry to hear about your experice.

I feel for both sides - just get hung up on educated folks not grasping some stuff. That is the angle (in conjunction with financial capacity) that is so distressing moo

 

[Curious Me]

What a bloody battle! Everything in the garage was covered in blood. Wasn't AH and the victim found outside the garage once LE arrived? CARIIS, blood in the car needs to be explained. Sure hope LE can explain how this all occurred. They haven't said or figured out yet how long the attacks lasted.

It hurts more to know that this lovely couple enjoyed their garage so much and shared it with all the neighbors. Then, along comes a grizzly bear...no...it's just a teenage boy crazed, unstoppable, and with super human strength.

Dougherty can't say for sure whether the corkscrew, which was covered in blood, was used in the attack because everything in the garage was covered in blood, he said. The corkscrew came from a bar inside the garage that also had multiple liquor bottles.

A switchblade knife found in a pool of blood in the driveway fit the description of a knife given to Harrouff about a week before the attack, but Dougherty couldn't say for sure whether the knife was used in the attack even though it was consistent with the wounds.

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/crime/ma...kscrew-knife-3b65e26f-efe3-214-391954751.html

 

[Jax49]

I have not read anything about blaming the mother in the other case- is that happening??

That is just silly -watching someone, outside your window become a cannonball would be utterly scary imo

Would like to see a pic of the son , in terms of size, to get an idea of how strong the drug made him. The kid is small

Yes, it is happening. There are several friends of Nico posting on facebook that he didn't try to hurt the mother and son--they claim Nico was attacked. It is a bunch of BS.
Regarding the size difference, the son out weighed Nico by 100 lbs.

 

[Jax49]

If I remember correctly, a switchblade type knife carried in a pocket would be a concealed weapon in Kan, and probably plenty of other places as well. And possibly even a heavy duty pocket knife with a 5 in blade.

I do know that a common pocket knife is legal (concealed carry) in Florida if the blade is less than 4 inches.

 

[CARIIS]

Yes, it is happening. There are several friends of Nico posting on facebook that he didn't try to hurt the mother and son--they claim Nico was attacked. It is a bunch of BS.
Regarding the size difference, the son out weighed Nico by 100 lbs.

I dont care what age anyone is -- it would be pretty hard to come to the conclusion that they "attacked" him!

He flew there front window- I am sorry but that is just stupid, how do they overlook that!!

He flew their window to get attacked??

I am certainly not doubting any reports - was stunned today tho when I did not see any abrasions or cuts on him --- bizaire

 

[Curious Me]

Lady on tv right now is drinking a BLUE drink. Fiction I'm reading has cannibals out in the Yukon woods.

"Everything you can imagine is real." George Bernard

“Life imitates art far more than art imitates life.” Oscar Wilde