FL FL - Rose Marie Gayhart, 23, Cape Coral, 14 Mar 1985

[Roselvr]

Snipped by me.

Here are a few more details.

Rose was the 2nd oldest of 6 kids. Laurie was younger than Rose. She was 1 of 3 from the same parents with 3 younger from another Father.

Rose had 2 children, Rose came home to an unresponsive child & back then she was left at fault & given a year in jail. She was living with Kevin Burns at the time. Burns passed away back in the 80's Laurie thinks. After that Rose's parents convinced her to give up her other child without discussing other options with their family.

ETA: After talking to Laurie we aren't sure if Rose did tell her mother about the baby. But when she called on 3/14 talk in the family is that Rose's mother told her she had made her bed & needed to lie in it. We aren't positive if that in fact did happen or if it did what Rose told her. IE about the baby, about getting kicked out, etc.

Thank you for clarifying. Really sucks she was put in jail for her son's death. We know more now that he probably passed from SIDS.

As for putting her son for adoption; parents had a huge influence on us kids back then. My dad wanted me to terminate my son when I was pregnant at 20 but I did not; ended up marrying the father but it did not last. My dad eventually accepted my decision; was the 1st one at the hospital when I was in labor & was very close to my son; was the apple of my dads eyes.

Look at Aundria Bowman's bio-mom Cathy. She found herself divorced when Alexis (birth name) was 5 months old. Cathy was 17; her mom made the arrangements. Back then Cathy was in no shape to even question it; she had gone back home, found out her mom was very ill from breast cancer & had lost a breast. Adoption was very "popular" back then; I learned in my 30's that I had an older 1/2 brother that was put for adoption. There was a lot of shame to be pregnant & not married or to be a single parent. There also was no WIC; even if there were services; we may not have qualified. I know I did not even making minimum wage in 87 when I was divorced. I had applied for section 8 housing.

So the circumstances around Rose putting her child for adoption was very common.

Every Mother's Worst Nightmare! How I found out my daughter Aundria "Alexis" Bowman was missing

 

[Caring4Many]

Sadly for Rose her son didn't pass from SIDS. He was murdered. This article doesn't detail her time served but she did spend a year in the Albion correctional facility for what they deemed back then as Endangering the welfare of a child.

 

[Caring4Many]

Glad to hear all worked out well for you in the end. It doesn't always that's for sure. {{hugs}} to you!

 

[Abigail]

Ok to clarify-first I updated my last post.
Dorothy passed in 2002 in N Ft Myers.

Now as for Bobby we have information that places him back in NY in Dansville where Rose grew up in May of 1985. He stayed in that local area (Rochester suburbs, NY) since. He has spent winters in FL but I haven't seen anything specific to to say what years, starting when or for how long.

I find this a bit confusing, because LE in Cape Coral say they contacted Bob at his residence at 1310 SE 40 Terrace, Cape Coral, FL afterbeing contacted by the Livingstone Co NY LE on May 22, 1985. Bob was still living at the apartment at that time, and apparently Rose was living in that same apartment (at least part of the time) prior to her disappearance as that was the address she gave to Big Howie's when she was employed on March 19.

 

[Caring4Many]

I find this a bit confusing, because LE in Cape Coral say they contacted Bob at his residence at 1310 SE 40 Terrace, Cape Coral, FL afterbeing contacted by the Livingstone Co NY LE on May 22, 1985. Bob was still living at the apartment at that time, and apparently Rose was living in that same apartment (at least part of the time) prior to her disappearance as that was the address she gave to Big Howie's when she was employed on March 19.

That is exactly my point. When in May did he establish this connection? We do know that it exists, it is an address that was reported to be attached to him for years after. It doesn't necessarily mean he stayed there from that time, until recently. Honestly he could have made a trip to NY, made the arrangements and left for all we know, I don't know if in 1985 he was required to even be here to make the purchase, or if he just reported that address and didn't own it? Could simply be that he added it to an official document and it ended up tied to him after that point- does that make sense? This location was listed under him for 5 years. There is another address that he used in 11/1987. Either way he ties himself to NY in a way that is traceable and stays on official records for years to come. I am not sure if we are allowed to post full details of background checks or not so until told that it is allowed I won't post that information.
As for Rose & that address, we don't know if she did or didn't live there except for her reporting it as her address to Big Howies. I am hoping we will get some of that info in the response from LCSO. The time from the fight at the trailer and her disappearance was only 8-9 days. I personally think when Bobby said she stayed with him off & on that he was referring to how they were in general & the apartment. But how off & on can you be for 8-9 days? So much of this is baffling. Not to mention frustrating that FL LE didn't do a more thorough job gathering info.

 

[Caring4Many]

Links that may be helpful in the case

Talk show that Laurie did in regards to Rose:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/iscinv...d-by-isc-investigations-where-is-rose-gayhart

CrimeStoppers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOD2DHP9N_o

CUE Center:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyDyMYBlZ18

Official Website for Rose:
https://rosemariegayhart.wordpress.com/

ireport CNN:
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-831793

 

[Lauriejtravis]

Sadly for Rose her son didn't pass from SIDS. He was murdered. This article doesn't detail her time served but she did spend a year in the Albion correctional facility for what they deemed back then as Endangering the welfare of a child.

correct to my understanding.

 

[Lauriejtravis]

Why would I keep such this newspaper for some reason I saved this article...not knowing many years later could be useful. <3

 

[Lauriejtravis]

That is exactly my point. When in May did he establish this connection? We do know that it exists, it is an address that was reported to be attached to him for years after. It doesn't necessarily mean he stayed there from that time, until recently. Honestly he could have made a trip to NY, made the arrangements and left for all we know, I don't know if in 1985 he was required to even be here to make the purchase, or if he just reported that address and didn't own it? Could simply be that he added it to an official document and it ended up tied to him after that point- does that make sense? This location was listed under him for 5 years. There is another address that he used in 11/1987. Either way he ties himself to NY in a way that is traceable and stays on official records for years to come. I am not sure if we are allowed to post full details of background checks or not so until told that it is allowed I won't post that information.
As for Rose & that address, we don't know if she did or didn't live there except for her reporting it as her address to Big Howies. I am hoping we will get some of that info in the response from LCSO. The time from the fight at the trailer and her disappearance was only 8-9 days. I personally think when Bobby said she stayed with him off & on that he was referring to how they were in general & the apartment. But how off & on can you be for 8-9 days? So much of this is baffling. Not to mention frustrating that FL LE didn't do a more thorough job gathering info.

I so AGREE with you.

 

[Abigail]

That is exactly my point. When in May did he establish this connection? We do know that it exists, it is an address that was reported to be attached to him for years after. It doesn't necessarily mean he stayed there from that time, until recently. Honestly he could have made a trip to NY, made the arrangements and left for all we know, I don't know if in 1985 he was required to even be here to make the purchase, or if he just reported that address and didn't own it? Could simply be that he added it to an official document and it ended up tied to him after that point- does that make sense? This location was listed under him for 5 years. There is another address that he used in 11/1987. Either way he ties himself to NY in a way that is traceable and stays on official records for years to come. I am not sure if we are allowed to post full details of background checks or not so until told that it is allowed I won't post that information.
As for Rose & that address, we don't know if she did or didn't live there except for her reporting it as her address to Big Howies. I am hoping we will get some of that info in the response from LCSO. The time from the fight at the trailer and her disappearance was only 8-9 days. I personally think when Bobby said she stayed with him off & on that he was referring to how they were in general & the apartment. But how off & on can you be for 8-9 days? So much of this is baffling. Not to mention frustrating that FL LE didn't do a more thorough job gathering info.

1) With regard to background checks -- I've had a couple run in past several years, and the results showed me residing in places I wasn't. In my case, I was overseas for over a decade, but rather than showing my overseas address, it showed my mother's address (and later my brother's) because that's where our domestic mail was going. It also didn't show places where I lived in the U.S. before my marriage, even though I was a tax-paying adult registered to vote.

2) I think Rose must have been staying with Bob for at least part of the time -- why else would she give that address to her place of employment or leave her clothes and important documents there? For most of us, being "on and off again" during the course of a week might sound bizarre, but I have a friend who'll be singing her boyfriend's praises in the early afternoon, and by 4 PM they have broken up, but they make up by 7 PM, and then the next day they have "permanently" broken up -- for maybe 2 or 3 hours, yada yada yada

 

[Abigail]

Random thought:
Dorothy Rittenhouse reported the big fight being March 12 or 13, but I wonder if it weren't March 14 -- the day she called her parents? The neighbor said she came over to use the phone to call her family (and that's when she told the neighbor she thought she was pregnant, and the fight was about her wanting to keep the baby, and Bob not wanting to). I presume she called collect, which would be how the parents knew the exact date (it would be on the phone bill). Unless, maybe, she called them, and they weren't home, so she called again the next day. Or maybe she called someone else in the family, perhaps one of the sisters, but I think they would have mentioned it.

 

[Caring4Many]

1) With regard to background checks -- I've had a couple run in past several years, and the results showed me residing in places I wasn't. In my case, I was overseas for over a decade, but rather than showing my overseas address, it showed my mother's address (and later my brother's) because that's where our domestic mail was going. It also didn't show places where I lived in the U.S. before my marriage, even though I was a tax-paying adult registered to vote.

2) I think Rose must have been staying with Bob for at least part of the time -- why else would she give that address to her place of employment or leave her clothes and important documents there? For most of us, being "on and off again" during the course of a week might sound bizarre, but I have a friend who'll be singing her boyfriend's praises in the early afternoon, and by 4 PM they have broken up, but they make up by 7 PM, and then the next day they have "permanently" broken up -- for maybe 2 or 3 hours, yada yada yada

1) I agree that we may not know for sure if he was in NY the entire time but I've never seen a location come up on a background check that wasn't valid. In your case, you were receiving mail so there's a reason behind it. Without knowing how your background check was pulled I can't guess why things didn't pull. But fact of the matter is that he had more than one address come up in NY shortly after-85, 87, 89, 91, etc

2) I think this is a good point. It does sound like this is a lot like what their relationship is like. I would like to know though if LE did ask further on the issue & get a clearer answer. Thank you for a different perspective on this!

 

[Caring4Many]

Random thought:
Dorothy Rittenhouse reported the big fight being March 12 or 13, but I wonder if it weren't March 14 -- the day she called her parents? The neighbor said she came over to use the phone to call her family (and that's when she told the neighbor she thought she was pregnant, and the fight was about her wanting to keep the baby, and Bob not wanting to). I presume she called collect, which would be how the parents knew the exact date (it would be on the phone bill). Unless, maybe, she called them, and they weren't home, so she called again the next day. Or maybe she called someone else in the family, perhaps one of the sisters, but I think they would have mentioned it.

I really wish someone had a definite date. We do know that Usola stated to LE she heard the argument-even mentioned glass breaking. I don't think Rose had to tell her though. Did you see in the info that she stated this? I don't recall reading that. I wonder if she has ever stated that Rose using the phone to call home was the same day as the argument? Because we know Rose was seen walking out of the trailer park after the fight. It's possible she stopped to see Usola first.

 

[Abigail]

Random thought #2:
By both Dorothy Rittenhouse account and the neighbor's account, Rose left the trailer park alone, carrying her suitcase, on the night of the big fight (and btw, if she had a suitcase, why were her clothes in a paper bag at Bob's apartment? Maybe extra clothes that didn't fit in suitcase?). Sometime in the next 4 or 5 days, Bobby must have also moved out from his mother's trailer to the apartment in Cape Coral (Rose mentioned in her letter to her sister that they were planning to move out and buy their own place, so a move seemed to be in the works anyway). However, Rose must have stayed that night of the fight with someone other than Bobby -- who? But by Tues, March 19, she must have somewhat made up with Bobby, because some of her stuff was over at his new apartment, and she listed his place as her residence for her employer (she also found a job within walking distance of his apartment).

Dorothy Rittenhouse sounds like (from her letter) a bitter, jealous, venomous woman; she must have been really irked that after she thought she'd gotten Rose kicked out of the trailer that Bobby then proceeded to move out as well, and then Rose apparently moved in with him at the new place. Notice that she didn't run out and buy a bus ticket home for Rose on the night of the fight or even the next day. It wasn't until several days later that she bought the ticket, and then tried to get Rose to leave town. I'm guessing that's right about when Rose and Bobby reconciled (if only temporarily) -- she mentioned in the letter to Rose's mother (postdated March 19 -- the date that Rose started her job at Big Howie's, and listed Bobby's apt as her place of residence) that Rose had come back to the camper the night before (probably to get the rest of her stuff) -- so, how did Rose get there? I'm guessing maybe both Rose and Bobby came together to get their stuff.

 

[Abigail]

I really wish someone had a definite date. We do know that Usola stated to LE she heard the argument-even mentioned glass breaking. I don't think Rose had to tell her though. Did you see in the info that she stated this? I don't recall reading that. I wonder if she has ever stated that Rose using the phone to call home was the same day as the argument? Because we know Rose was seen walking out of the trailer park after the fight. It's possible she stopped to see Usola first.

Yes, she went over to Usola's trailer after the fight to call her family, and she told the neighbor she thought she was pregnant and that she wanted to keep the baby but her boyfriend wanted her to have an abortion -- the police officer mentions that in the video. https://rosemariegayhart.wordpress.com/category/news-videos/

 

[Caring4Many]

I haven't been able to look at all the videos on the links yet. I wanted to post them so that everyone had them but I haven't seen them all yet. I'll work on that before commenting further but if that's the case it would make more sense.

I really wonder what LE did in 1985 in regards to who was driving a red truck like the one seen picking up Rose.

So many questions...

 

[Caring4Many]

Yes, she went over to Usola's trailer after the fight to call her family, and she told the neighbor she thought she was pregnant and that she wanted to keep the baby but her boyfriend wanted her to have an abortion -- the police officer mentions that in the video. https://rosemariegayhart.wordpress.com/category/news-videos/

I see, I was thinking you were saying all in the same day. Not simply one after the other.
What I find odd is that he says 2 people saw Rose get into the red truck? Hmmmm.

 

[RR0004]

this is what I have been trying to have done..re question BOB

Laurie...what's the status of the case...is it still listed as a missing person? There are so many questions that have been left unanswered. Having the right questions asked now, IMO, could get the investigation moving. At least, there would be more of a record.
Perhaps someone can tell me- is there a way the status of the case can change from a MP to a Homicide? (sorry, Laurie)

 

[RR0004]

ETA...to above post. I saw in the video that they're intent on keeping it a MP for now.
Just curious...do we know where Donald Shaver was at the time Rose went missing?
Rose lived a lot of life by the time she was 23. Hard to imagine all that she went through. How did she meet up with Bobby in the first place? The age difference would scare me.
And to think...I spent time in that part of NY in the 70s.

 

[Abigail]

I see, I was thinking you were saying all in the same day. Not simply one after the other.
What I find odd is that he says 2 people saw Rose get into the red truck? Hmmmm.

Yes...the man in the red pickup truck. In her letter, Dorothy Rittenhouse said that when she went over to Jim's Bar after buying the bus ticket on Sunday, March 17, to confront Rose and try to get her to go back home, that Rose left with a man in a red truck, and "no one knew who he was." That was several days before Mr. Graupe said he saw Rose leaving with a guy in a red pickup truck from his restaurant on March 21. And then Bobby said that he had gone down to the restaurant to see Rose, and was told that she'd left with a guy in a red pickup truck. Not sure if Graupe told him that or another employee. At any rate, unless Mr. Graupe was in cahoots with Bobby and his mother, there must have really been a guy in a red pickup.

Rose seemed to have a pattern of making poor choices in men (father of first child in prison, next guy killed her baby, etc.). Did she hook up with this guy in the red pickup in desperation after walking out of the trailer park?

Another thought -- Dorothy went down the Jim's Bar on old 41 to confront Rose after (several days) she kicked Rose out of the trailer. Jim's Bar (Pub) is still open on old 41 (Tamiami Trail). It's only a 10 minute walk from the trailer park on Barron. It must have been a place where Rose (and probably Dorothy and Bobby) hung out. That's most likely where Rose went, when she walked out of the trailer park with her suitcase in hand. Maybe she hooked up with the red pickup guy that night (he apparently was not from those parts, if no one knew who he was).

However, if Dorothy went down there to find her after buying the bus ticket on the 17th, it's interesting that Rose was at the bar that day. It hints to me that Rose had not yet reconciled with Bobby, because his new apartment was 10 miles away in Cape Coral -- too far to walk (or maybe Bobby hadn't yet moved out of the trailer to the apartment). So...Rose must have either been staying with someone who lived nearby, and/or staying with the guy in the red pickup. But then it seems she at least temporarily reconciled with Bobby, since she at least partially moved in with him, gave his apt. as her residence on her job application, and found a job near his apartment.

But, perhaps they had another fight, and she took off with the red pickup guy again.