Forensic Astrology - VICTORIA (Tori) STAFFORD - Canada

[dianebs]

I think MR's lawyer is only suggesting TLM's lawyer is negotiating a deal only to get the media and public in a frenzy. Obviously MR's lawyer wouldn't want TLM to get a deal because she would testify against him and make it worse on him. But the media would be very upset if there were to be a deal because of what happen with Paul Bernardo and Karla Holmolka. I think MR's lawyer is just trying to prevent this from happening by saying this to the media.

 

[canadianwhitedove]

I believe the reasoning behind having 2 trials with different Crowns and Judges is not to allow what happen with Paul Bernardo and Karla Holmolka trial to happen here. Their trials was separate but with the same crown and Judge which allowed for an unacceptable deal for Karla...

With different Crowns the chance of getting a good deal for testifying against the other is going to be a little bit harder since both crowns and Judges will have to come to some agreement which allows for less bias on which one holds more guilt....

I also believe both lawyers know this but are trying not to relate this case to the for mentioned above but still use the media to get the public in an up roar. The more the media focus on this case the harder it will be to get Jury members who have not heard of or have biases to this case especially in Ontario....

 

[Virgogalsue]

Mars will also enter a new Sign on 31 May, Taurus. Automatically, Mars aspects Pluto, so important to the court event chart (perps' arraignment) and it is a horrific influence.
It pertains to the specifics of what happened to our victim. Mars will also square both the north and south nodes of the Moon: loss and associations of terpitude.

Sunday, May 24, we have a New Moon, 3°28' II. This activates the media, particularly television reporting, therefore from the end of the month (30 & 31) and on through June, we should have saturating coverage. The New Moon is precisely trine the arraignment node, which is news oriented. We are really just waiting upon the direct of Mercury for more divulgence and exposure.

SIGH! No news this weekend....I was hoping so badly that Tori would be brought home!

Hopefully, tomorrow will bring some news and peace to her loved ones.

 

[Guelphite]

SIGH! No news this weekend....I was hoping so badly that Tori would be brought home!

Hopefully, tomorrow will bring some news and peace to her loved ones.

Well, the Astros have been very accurate all along. And it's quite possible the police did find something yesterday in Nicols Twp and Hwy 6. That Hwy was definitely closed down yesterday.

There has been a lull or a hush over the case this weekend but I wouldn't rule out the words quoted by Tuba just yet. We may be in for a surprise.

I feel sorry for LE; they're trying to do their work but they are being trailed by media caravans everywhere they go--even here in the boonies.

If they found something yesterday, they will still need to test the item and be 100 per cent certain that it's linked to the case before they go to the media.

It fascinates me how close that particular juncture in the Hwy is to Elora and the fact that they were searching in ditches. People on this thread have submitted these places as potential search locations. I'm amazed!

 

[kaas]

elepher, the 30th of May Moon will be in Virgo while Mercury moves direct, so we can expect a turn of events then. I am not talking about locating Victoria's body, that should come much sooner; the Sun was inconjunct Pluto of the court chart, so she by rights she should have been found today.

OldSoul, the two outcomes refers to the future not some happening during commission of the crime but that doesn't mean the intercept itself did not affect the crime. The behavior of the perpetrators toward their victim is what will emerge to jolt us. That is what the turned chart shows. I dread hearing about it.

It is interesting that according to the chart, Victoria should have been found May 22. This is during the search of the area north of Guelph Ontario with TLM assisting. So although they did not find this dear child, perhaps they are at leasting looking in the right area. Unfortunately though as quoted in this article http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090523/stafford_search_090523/20090523 "A farmer who in the Guelph area that is being searched said it could take officers quite some time to find anything because of the vast amounts of land that are completely isolated."

On May 30 is was reported by
http://www.swo.ctv.ca/news.php?id=4751&PHPSESSID=dd04795d0ea5f17f041231abb7979356 that "items of interest had been found". The LE are not offering any information regarding these items nor will they confirm that they have actually been recovered.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Oldsoul2]

Officers to search highway shoulder Monday for Tori Stafford's remains

Officers will spend Monday searching along the westbound shoulder of Highway 401 between Cambridge, Ont., and Woodstock.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/br...day-for-Tori-Stafford_s-remains-46619982.html

Over the weekend, investigators concentrated their efforts in rural forested areas of southwestern Ontario but police officials said they have yet to find any new evidence in the case.

“I haven’t received any information of anything being found yet,” Const. Laurie-Anne Maitland told Canwest News Service, disputing reports by some media agencies on the weekend that suggested investigators came across some “items of interest” while searching along Highway 6, near Fergus, Ont.

http://www.thestarphoenix.com/news/Search+Tori+Stafford+enters+13th/1650863/story.html

 

[Guelphite]

It is interesting that according to the chart, Victoria should have been found May 22. This is during the search of the area north of Guelph Ontario with TLM assisting. So although they did not find this dear child, perhaps they are at leasting looking in the right area. Unfortunately though as quoted in this article http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090523/stafford_search_090523/20090523 "A farmer who in the Guelph area that is being searched said it could take officers quite some time to find anything because of the vast amounts of land that are completely isolated."

On May 30 is was reported by
http://www.swo.ctv.ca/news.php?id=4751&PHPSESSID=dd04795d0ea5f17f041231abb7979356 that "items of interest had been found". The LE are not offering any information regarding these items nor will they confirm that they have actually been recovered.

Just some thoughts.

I'm beginning to believe the theory that MR did move the body. And further, that had he not moved it, it would have been found by LE on the 22nd--the date it was charted to be found.

LE were working today at that same stretch of road between Guelph and Fergus (Nicols Twp 6th line and Hwy 6) as yesterday.

Sadly elepher50, I was not successful in my "hike" ... but thanks for caring about my safety.

 

[Oldsoul2]

"I just don't know what to say," he said. "Right now, they're saying they have enough evidence to verify that Victoria has passed, but I myself, as Victoria's father, refuse to believe that until I actually see remains of my daughter, or my daughter's body.

"I love her with all my heart and until I see her, I will not lay this to rest," added Stafford, who was wearing a T-shirt with a picture of Victoria that read "Daddy's Little Girl."

"I've been wearing her proudly on my chest and in my heart since the day she was born."

Tori's brother Daryn, 11, is devastated and bewildered, said Stafford.

"His first reaction was, 'So this means can't hang out with my sister any more.' I told him these people will be punished. That's not enough. He wants to see them in the electric chair."

http://news.sympatico.msn.cbc.ca/Lo...ion+Outside/unknown+:+Speed&abc=abc&date=True

Somethings not sitting with me right.....did LE say what evidence they have at this time that proves 100% that Tori has passed? TLM is lying and evading LE..I am sure she is not going to help them find the body which is much worse for her come her trial. I can't shake it...but I don't think this story she gave them is entirely true about what happened or who was involved, maybe because she admitted to LE that Tori was killed they would think that there is no reason for anyone to admit that if it's not true......she is HIDING something and MR is not talking at all! Do the charts speak of deception at this time?

 

[siestalola]

dianebs, we don't have the Goris information but IF you can catch him in a significant action, we can base a chart on that moment. For instance, if he took the afternoon press invitation instead of Tara one day or if he left to testify in the London trial or if he alone reported a piece of evidence to police, those moments should be recorded & charted. They would reveal even more than a birth chart on him, which actually might not say much. Keep an eye skinned for news of J. Goris!

Would JG sitting behind TM on the porch of the Fri May 22,09 presser clutching a large Teddy Bear be considered a significant action? This was TM's final presser, the first time she spoke publicly after the arrests of TLM and MR.

If you go to: www.mogul.com/lfpress you will see him at the 12:17 marker of the video in the background.

Or how how about the day he came out of TM's house and knocked over camera equipment in anger. If need be, I will get the date and time of this incident as well.

 

[dianebs]

"I just don't know what to say," he said. "Right now, they're saying they have enough evidence to verify that Victoria has passed, but I myself, as Victoria's father, refuse to believe that until I actually see remains of my daughter, or my daughter's body.

"I love her with all my heart and until I see her, I will not lay this to rest," added Stafford, who was wearing a T-shirt with a picture of Victoria that read "Daddy's Little Girl."

"I've been wearing her proudly on my chest and in my heart since the day she was born."

Tori's brother Daryn, 11, is devastated and bewildered, said Stafford.

"His first reaction was, 'So this means can't hang out with my sister any more.' I told him these people will be punished. That's not enough. He wants to see them in the electric chair."

http://news.sympatico.msn.cbc.ca/Lo...ion+Outside/unknown+:+Speed&abc=abc&date=True

Somethings not sitting with me right.....did LE say what evidence they have at this time that proves 100% that Tori has passed? TLM is lying and evading LE..I am sure she is not going to help them find the body which is much worse for her come her trial. I can't shake it...but I don't think this story she gave them is entirely true about what happened or who was involved, maybe because she admitted to LE that Tori was killed they would think that there is no reason for anyone to admit that if it's not true......she is HIDING something and MR is not talking at all! Do the charts speak of deception at this time?

Oldsoul, I believe the police know where the place Tori was murdered and even wondering if it is Tara's former residence, which TLM would know where it was and it was vacant.

Awhile ago there was an article in which the person responisble for getting the residence ready for the next tenant at which time the police and forensics unit arrived. She stated they took things away.

In order to charge 2 people with 1st degree murder, the LE would have to have enough evidence (DNA) to prove Tori is dead and link the 2 people with the crime .. especially without a body.

So just the fact there are 1st degree murder charges, the LE have to know where Tori was murdered and there must have been enough blood there that they know she couldn't have survived.

The police did go to Tara to get a tooth and shoes to do a dna profile. I'm wondering if they were matching the dna found with that of Tori.

No Crown Attorney would allow charges to be laid without enough DNA evidence to prove in the court of law.

 

[dianebs]

You are very welcome Guelphite. I had the same impressions with creative visualization and meditation and I did feel she was taken to a home. When I read that article and the fact that forensics took items .. I felt that was the place. The two knowing that Tara had moved from there and it was vacant gave them a place for what to follow. I see it as well thought out "script" as well.

------

Astro's I do recall that in one of the first charts done, that money was involved. Has a chart been done with the combination of Tara and Terri or Michael? I'm just wondering if she owed drug money and this is why they chose Tori. If I recall correctly the chart also showed Tara had an opportunity missed when she realized Tori was missing.

1. Tara was desperately trying to raise money for odd things (phone bill).
2. Tara stating she went for a limo ride to Toronto and met with a wealthy person who had a child abducted and murdered.
3. Rodney stating Tara knew Terri because she wanted to breed dogs with her .. then after Tori went missing Tara's dog is brought to the vet because it was poisoned. Was this a message from Terri and Michael stating who has Tori.

Thank you so very much for you dedicated work you do!

 

[Oldsoul2]

Thank you dianeb. I had not considered this.

After doing many creative visualizations and meditations for Tori, I had the impression the offenders took the child to a home. I had the impression--more of a feeling, actually, that a "script" was being followed ... that the planned setting for whatever befell this dear child had not been a car.

I don't know exactly about the house or where they started or ended their journey with Tori, I still sense there is more to this story than we or LE know. I agree with you......there is a "script" ...or in other words, an untrue story.

Dianebs..you make a valid point but when they have someone in custody that has no choice but to admit she is the one on the tape..clearly and rats out MR that it is he who did everything else and then promises to help find the body but leads them nowhere, it is very possible charges can be laid solely based on admission to guilt from a witness or perp in this case. LE does have reason to believe Tori has passed from TLM's testimony. When the search led nowhere...they pressed more severe charges on her but this does not mean that they have physical evidence that Tori has passed. If I were to put my real hunch on the table, I think their original motif for taking Tori did not go as planned, something went wrong and maybe she is no longer with us because of it but the "why" and "for whom" is not revealed....as far as Tara goes and in most of these cases regarding children... the parents should really consider who they expose their children to but does that mean they participated in their abduction...not necessarily

 

[Oldsoul2]

Someone is listening to us...

Search continues for evidence in Tori Stafford case

A search focusing around a Wellington County town and at the Salford landfill continues Wednesday, nearly two months after the abduction of Victoria (Tori) Stafford.

The search for what Oxford Community Police call “Victoria Stafford’s remains” is in Fergus, while OPP officers are at the Salford landfill in Oxford County and the ditches along the westbound lanes of Highway 401.

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/06/03/9661896.html

 

[Oldsoul2]

NO NEWS! Why would the investigators tell the father that they may never find her.....do they know something we don't!! Someone posted awhile ago about dismemberment.....is this why???? I'm sad and frustrated.

 

[Guelphite]

I feel sure they have a lot of information and have a good reason why they aren't making it public.

I've just re-read this thread and the charted material and I'm so in awe of how correct the astrologers have been.

Speculation: I think Tori would have been found by now if she hadn't been moved. Did MR move her sometime between TLM's incarceration and then his own? And further, was she moved again after MR was arrested? Perhaps by his other girlfriend? That might explain the puzzling search patterns. The case is mind boggling.

The Astros have brought more clarity to it than anyone else.

Lets hope the upcoming full moon shines some light on the darkness.

 

[elepher50]

It is now two months since Victoria Stafford was seen walking with TLM on the video leaving the school. Two long months and Victoria is not found. The two months have proven to be an emotional roller coaster ride. Press conferences by the family, video released of Tori walking with the abductor, video of car by school released, composite sketch released, two people charged with murder, more pix of car released, searches continuing, memorial held for Tori, search for missing back seat of car, TLM "assisting" with the searches.

Two months today since this precious little girl went missing - let's hope she is found soon.

 

[paris_paris]

I'm not sure how this works, but you all seem to be able to come up with information if you know precise times. Is that right?

If LE is following cell phone pings from MR's phone... say he drove from Woodstock to Guelph to Cambridge on April 24th at 11:22 p.m., could you work with something like that?

 

[Maybe]

I'm not sure how this works, but you all seem to be able to come up with information if you know precise times. Is that right?

If LE is following cell phone pings from MR's phone... say he drove from Woodstock to Guelph to Cambridge on April 24th at 11:22 p.m., could you work with something like that?

We can certainly give it a try. I am not a pro at Astrology, but I know someone who is, his specialty Horary. So if you have some definite time and a question in mind, let us know.

I am not sure if I answered your question, but yes in astrology a precise time gives a more accurate chart.

 

[Soulscape]

I'm not sure how this works, but you all seem to be able to come up with information if you know precise times. Is that right?

If LE is following cell phone pings from MR's phone... say he drove from Woodstock to Guelph to Cambridge on April 24th at 11:22 p.m., could you work with something like that?

We can certainly give it a try. I am not a pro at Astrology, but I know someone who is, his specialty Horary. So if you have some definite time and a question in mind, let us know.

I am not sure if I answered your question, but yes in astrology a precise time gives a more accurate chart.

Paris & Maybe, may I make a clarification?

First, to answer your question, Paris, if we factually know --- from cell pings or otherwise --- that MR drove off in his car in a certain direction from a certain location on a certain date & time, we may be able to ascertain motive from that chart, which would be categorized as an Event chart. Of course this rests upon MR actually doing something of import (a valid event) and not just driving around to pass the time/ because he's bored.

Maybe, a valid horary question is a question of great import to the Querent (one asking the question) asked at a certain date/place/time from which the Astrologer can ascertain the answer. (Some astrologers use the Querent's date/time/place of question; other astrologers use the date/time/location at which they read/heard and understood the question. Both protocols are valid.)

In cases such as these, where we are observers with no power to impact the situation, horary questions often are unreadable. Tuba posted a very clear explanation on horary's role in these types of cases but I don't remember where. Perhaps FifthEssence can find that post and insert the link here.

I hope I have provided some clarification.

Thanks,
Soulscape

ETA: link regarding HORARY - posted by TUBA
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3759860&postcount=84"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - General[/ame]

snippet:
One of the most important rules of horary, never to be forgotten, is: decide before you cast the chart what House is given to the quesited or subject of your question. In this way, you will always elicit true answers, not fudged answers.
Horary questions should have weight and merit and should be an issue that is searing your thoughts.

 

[Tuba]

That is how I read the question from paris paris also, Soulscape. I think that ping chart may be very valuable for non-astro sleuthing but it does not rise to the level of an event and is NOT a horary. The post on cautions and strictures that need to be observed is #436 on page 18 of the current Caylee Astro Thread (Thread 10). But that ping map deserves maximum att'n from detectives, whether amateur or pro.