Found Deceased France - Émile S., 2, outside grandparent’s house, Le Vernet, Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, 8 July 2023

[sundaaaay]

Yes, I think of how easily he could lie down and not be seen, like a little fawn that hides in the grass so well you nearly step on it. But maybe they don't believe he could get very far in the long grass. I will trust the judgement of those who are in the field, but if this little lad was in my family, I would still be searching.

He really is so tiny so he could be very hard to find and it also might have been an instinct to find a hiding place when it started to get dark in the evening! The police mentioned he's a good walker for his age, but he is of an age with strict physical and psychological limitations.

I'm still curious as to what a toddler would do if they ended up in a situation alone like this. Maybe some parents on here have an opinion. If you put a toddler in the middle of a forest alone what would their reaction be. I imagine at the start they might enjoy it but it very quickly turns to despair; as soon as they're hungry or they get a scratch, or find something difficult to navigate they break into tears. They're not really problem solvers at that age, and would struggle to get past an obstruction like a fence. The landscape in Haut Vernet is not easy to navigate off the paths. Would 'fight or flight' kick in, or do they just curl up and cry? If 'flight' kicked in could he have ran without any consideration for his safety, ending up well outside the search area (seems unlikely IMO).

I'm quite surprised nothing has been found so I do think perhaps the answer to this mystery lies closer to the village, and whether the witnesses be trusted.

 

[shadwell]

Le Parisien has brought its infographic out from behind the paywall, so here it is:

Red label: Grandparents’ house.
Blue label: Last point of scent trail detected by dogs.
White label: ‘Witnesses saw the little boy heading towards the lower part of the village.’ (not clear if this is intended to indicate the exact location where they claimed to have seen him).

https://twitter.com/x/status/1679765667480997888

 

[shadwell]

IF the Parisien infographic is correct, the scent trail appears to end close to the front door of the lower house.

 

[shadwell]

He really is so tiny so he could be very hard to find and it also might have been an instinct to find a hiding place when it started to get dark in the evening! The police mentioned he's a good walker for his age, but he is of an age with strict physical and psychological limitations.

I'm still curious as to what a toddler would do if they ended up in a situation alone like this. Maybe some parents on here have an opinion. If you put a toddler in the middle of a forest alone what would their reaction be. I imagine at the start they might enjoy it but it very quickly turns to despair; as soon as they're hungry or they get a scratch, or find something difficult to navigate they break into tears. They're not really problem solvers at that age, and would struggle to get past an obstruction like a fence. The landscape in Haut Vernet is not easy to navigate off the paths. Would 'fight or flight' kick in, or do they just curl up and cry? If 'flight' kicked in could he have ran without any consideration for his safety, ending up well outside the search area (seems unlikely IMO).

I'm quite surprised nothing has been found so I do think perhaps the answer to this mystery lies closer to the village, and whether the witnesses be trusted.

BBM - I’m currently increasingly minded to agree. Current info (if correct) is suggesting (IMO) a mundane, but tragic accident followed by a bad decision, possibly motivated by a desire to protect someone else.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

A small child has gone missing in a forested area, which is a tragedy that could happen in any family, and some people are working hard to make it political? Heartless, to say the least.

 

[Twittens]

Looks like the French police are modifying their theories.

French police fear two-year-old Émile unlikely to have gone missing alone​

https://www.itv.com/news/2023-07-14...-old-mile-unlikely-to-have-gone-missing-alone

Investigators are focusing on the possibility of a criminal offence after the search for a two-year-old who wandered from his grandparents' home in the French Alps was called off.

[...]

Jacques Morel, a gendarmerie general, told French TV channel BFMTV: "We will probably have to admit that he could not get out of this area on his own without the help, the complicity... of a third party."

 

[renarde]

This source also mentions the dogs marking a "precise location" on the street:

L’enfant s’est-il perdu? Des témoins l’ont aperçu seul dans la rue descendant en direction du village du Vernet vers 17h15. Les chiens policiers ont marqué l’endroit précis. A-t-il été enlevé là? Renversé accidentellement, puis dissimulé?

Disparition d’Émile: les recherches cessent

Mercredi, les recherches sont désormais suspendues dans le cadre de la disparition d’un garçonnet de deux ans et demi.

www.lematin.ch

 

[Alyce]

a few quotes from the article - more at the link





The family was due to leave for a hiking outing............


A Le Vernet resident, who has lived in the Alpine village for 20 years, described missing toddler Emile as a “very sociable child”.................


The mayor of Le Vernet confirmed the last teams of gendarmes, military police officers, had left the Alpine village, following a final search on Thursday. The investigation is continuing elsewhere,” Mr Balique said,

The mayor said: “Our only hope now is that he’s been taken and is alive. It’s the last thing we can hope for and it’s already terrible. We could conceive that someone wanting a child passed by the area, saw this beautiful little boy and took him away. He couldn’t survive alone in the wild, that’s for sure.”

‘Only hope for missing toddler Emile is he’s been taken,’ mayor says

With 97 hectares swept across three days, the physical search will not resume tomorrow

www.independent.co.uk

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

This source also mentions the dogs marking a "precise location" on the street:

L’enfant s’est-il perdu? Des témoins l’ont aperçu seul dans la rue descendant en direction du village du Vernet vers 17h15. Les chiens policiers ont marqué l’endroit précis. A-t-il été enlevé là? Renversé accidentellement, puis dissimulé?

Disparition d’Émile: les recherches cessent

Mercredi, les recherches sont désormais suspendues dans le cadre de la disparition d’un garçonnet de deux ans et demi.

www.lematin.ch

This is strange. I opened your link above and Chrome, via Google, translated it, but I don't see anything in the translation about dogs marking a precise location. So then I opened the link in Edge, did NOT translate it, and don't see that exact text. Did they update the article and remove that statement?

 

[Alyce]

This source also mentions the dogs marking a "precise location" on the street:

L’enfant s’est-il perdu? Des témoins l’ont aperçu seul dans la rue descendant en direction du village du Vernet vers 17h15. Les chiens policiers ont marqué l’endroit précis. A-t-il été enlevé là? Renversé accidentellement, puis dissimulé?

Disparition d’Émile: les recherches cessent

Mercredi, les recherches sont désormais suspendues dans le cadre de la disparition d’un garçonnet de deux ans et demi.

www.lematin.ch

From Renarde's link above - and courtesy of Google


All of the 30 buildings making up this tiny alpine hamlet were searched, 12 vehicles visited, the 25 inhabitants of the town heard and 12 hectares of land meticulously raked. "Judicial communication will cease" from now on, except "necessity", concluded the prosecutor, insisting on the need for "quiet" of the family as of the village.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

a few quotes from the article - more at the link





The family was due to leave for a hiking outing............


A Le Vernet resident, who has lived in the Alpine village for 20 years, described missing toddler Emile as a “very sociable child”.................


The mayor of Le Vernet confirmed the last teams of gendarmes, military police officers, had left the Alpine village, following a final search on Thursday. The investigation is continuing elsewhere,” Mr Balique said,

The mayor said: “Our only hope now is that he’s been taken and is alive. It’s the last thing we can hope for and it’s already terrible. We could conceive that someone wanting a child passed by the area, saw this beautiful little boy and took him away. He couldn’t survive alone in the wild, that’s for sure.”

‘Only hope for missing toddler Emile is he’s been taken,’ mayor says

With 97 hectares swept across three days, the physical search will not resume tomorrow

www.independent.co.uk

So this goes back to the question of the mysterious timeline. Doubtful they'd leave the house at 5pm to go hiking, unless perhaps they were just headed somewhere close by, perhaps with a picnic dinner, so did they realize he was missing closer to noon, searched for a few hours themselves, and then alerted LE around 5:15pm?

 

[SouthAussie]

This is strange. I opened your link above and Chrome, via Google, translated it, but I don't see anything in the translation about dogs marking a precise location. So then I opened the link in Edge, did NOT translate it, and don't see that exact text. Did they update the article and remove that statement?

It is in this article by the same publication.


"They have a second home in the hamlet of Haut-Vernet (Alpes-de-Haute-Provence), perched at an altitude of 1200 m. Was the child lost? Witnesses saw him alone in the street going down towards the village of Vernet around 5:15 p.m. Police dogs marked the exact spot. Was he taken there? Accidentally spilled, then concealed?"

France: «Je n’ai toujours rien pour expliquer la disparition d’Emile»

Cinq jours après la disparition du bambin de 2 ans et demi au Haut-Vernet (F), le procureur Rémy Avon détaille au matin.ch la difficulté de progresser sans le début d’un indice.

www.lematin.ch

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

It is in this one from the same publication.


"They have a second home in the hamlet of Haut-Vernet (Alpes-de-Haute-Provence), perched at an altitude of 1200 m. Was the child lost? Witnesses saw him alone in the street going down towards the village of Vernet around 5:15 p.m. Police dogs marked the exact spot. Was he taken there? Accidentally spilled, then concealed?"

France: «Je n’ai toujours rien pour expliquer la disparition d’Emile»

Cinq jours après la disparition du bambin de 2 ans et demi au Haut-Vernet (F), le procureur Rémy Avon détaille au matin.ch la difficulté de progresser sans le début d’un indice.

www.lematin.ch

Ah, thanks.

 

[renarde]

This is strange. I opened your link above and Chrome, via Google, translated it, but I don't see anything in the translation about dogs marking a precise location. So then I opened the link in Edge, did NOT translate it, and don't see that exact text. Did they update the article and remove that statement?

Second paragraph:

France: «Je n’ai toujours rien pour expliquer la disparition d’Emile»

Cinq jours après la disparition du bambin de 2 ans et demi au Haut-Vernet (F), le procureur Rémy Avon détaille au matin.ch la difficulté de progresser sans le début d’un indice.

www.lematin.ch

 

[renarde]

"At 6 p.m., the grandparents sound the alarm. A remote pilot equipped with a drone then comes to the aid of the gendarmes and meets Émile's father, who was not there when his son vanished. "He told me that the little one was able to cover ten kilometers in the mountains, it seems huge for a child of two and a half years old. It's very steep terrain, which goes up and down, there are valleys, ditches", recounts Samuel Flechais. "At first, they thought he couldn't be far, since he was walking. But as time went on, they felt more and more stressed."

À 18h, les grands-parents donnent l'alerte. Un télépilote équipé d'un drone vient alors en aide aux gendarmes et rencontre le père d'Émile, qui n'était pas sur place au moment où son fils s'est volatilisé. "Il m'a dit que le petit était capable de parcourir dix kilomètres en montagne, ça paraît énorme pour un enfant de deux ans et demi. C'est un terrain très escarpé, qui monte et descend, il y a des vallons, des fossés", retrace Samuel Flechais. "Au début, ils se disaient qu'il ne devait pas être loin, vu qu'il marchait. Mais au fur et à mesure que le temps passait, on les sentait de plus en plus stressés."

VIDÉO - Après cinq jours d'enquête, le petit Émile toujours introuvable : retour sur les premières heures de sa disparition | TF1 INFO

[VIDÉO] Une ultime opération de ratissage a été conduite jeudi matin au Vernet, dans les Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, pour tenter de retrouver le petit Émile, en vain. La zone reste bouclée pour l'enquête et les gendarmes essaient encore de reconstituer le scénario des événements. Depuis samedi en...

www.tf1info.fr

 

[Fika]

"At 6 p.m., the grandparents sound the alarm. A remote pilot equipped with a drone then comes to the aid of the gendarmes and meets Émile's father, who was not there when his son vanished. "He told me that the little one was able to cover ten kilometers in the mountains, it seems huge for a child of two and a half years old. It's very steep terrain, which goes up and down, there are valleys, ditches", recounts Samuel Flechais. "At first, they thought he couldn't be far, since he was walking. But as time went on, they felt more and more stressed."

À 18h, les grands-parents donnent l'alerte. Un télépilote équipé d'un drone vient alors en aide aux gendarmes et rencontre le père d'Émile, qui n'était pas sur place au moment où son fils s'est volatilisé. "Il m'a dit que le petit était capable de parcourir dix kilomètres en montagne, ça paraît énorme pour un enfant de deux ans et demi. C'est un terrain très escarpé, qui monte et descend, il y a des vallons, des fossés", retrace Samuel Flechais. "Au début, ils se disaient qu'il ne devait pas être loin, vu qu'il marchait. Mais au fur et à mesure que le temps passait, on les sentait de plus en plus stressés."

VIDÉO - Après cinq jours d'enquête, le petit Émile toujours introuvable : retour sur les premières heures de sa disparition | TF1 INFO

[VIDÉO] Une ultime opération de ratissage a été conduite jeudi matin au Vernet, dans les Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, pour tenter de retrouver le petit Émile, en vain. La zone reste bouclée pour l'enquête et les gendarmes essaient encore de reconstituer le scénario des événements. Depuis samedi en...

www.tf1info.fr

10 km is a lot even for me. Mind you he didn’t have food or water in over 30c heat I really doubt he could have walked 10k. There would be no way, would it?

 

[vlbay]

that's 6.2 miles. no way.

 

[sundaaaay]

10 km is a lot even for me. Mind you he didn’t have food or water in over 30c heat I really doubt he could have walked 10k. There would be no way, would it?

I would take that quote with a pinch of salt. It might be true and we have all underestimated his physical endurance but previous trips with his family likely involved being carried at points, being handed snacks and water, verbal encouragement etc. Emile had none of that when he set off on his own, so it's unlikely he could have gotten that far.

 

[Stunned]

I would take that quote with a pinch of salt. It might be true and we have all underestimated his physical endurance but previous trips with his family likely involved being carried at points, being handed snacks and water, verbal encouragement etc. Emile had none of that when he set off on his own, so it's unlikely he could have gotten that far.

My 3 year old grandson who hikes all the time with his family in the mountains just barely made a 4 mile round trip up and down a mountain. So yes, I take that statement with a pinch of salt also.

 

[sundaaaay]

This is to get an idea of the topography of the valley we he is assumed to have gone missing