GA - Former President Donald Trump indicted, 10 counts in 2020 election interference, violation of RICO Act, 14 Aug 2023 #2

[Lilibet]

Lol Elon blocked you

A little hyperbole LOL!

 

[Friday Fan]

Perhaps ... but what he violates the Hatch Act as part of the comission of a crime?

I dunno.

Hatch Act is federal law that prohibits campaigning on the job or prohibits people holding certain jobs from campaigning (this definition does not apply to Meadows)
Meadows is being tried for state crime.

The Hatch Act in this case, probably implies that Meadows was working for Trump's campaign when he made that call and not in his official capacity as a govt official. Lots of people weave in and out of those roles.

Federal Employee Hatch Act Information

osc.gov

\Penalties. The penalty structure for violations of the Hatch Act by federal employees includes removal from federal service, reduction in grade, debarment from federal employment for a period not to exceed 5 years, suspension, reprimand, or a civil penalty not to exceed $1,000. 5 U.S.C. § 7326(2).

 

[Friday Fan]

I might be off base, but the offer of campaign money to pay to make a government process (signature validation) go faster seems like a bribe? ?

IDK. jmo

Yes, it does

 

[MyBelle]

Sounds to me that Meadows has a very good defense whether it lands in Federal or State Court:

JMO

Mark Meadows Calls Georgia DA's Claim He Violated the Hatch Act a 'Red Herring'

Attorneys for Trump's former chief of staff made the argument in a filing setting the stage for a federal court hearing on Monday

themessenger.com

Meadows denies he violated the statute.

"Nonetheless, Mr. Meadows complied with federal law in connection with the charged conduct, and neither OSC, nor DOJ, nor any other competent federal enforcement authority has suggested otherwise despite the intense focus and public nature of the alleged acts."

In a footnote, Meadows' attorneys compared their client's actions with those of the chief of staff for then-Democratic candidate Al Gore.

"Vice President Gore’s then Chief of Staff recalls that, during the 2000 Florida Recount, he was actively engaged with both the Gore-Lieberman campaign and legal proceedings contesting the election results," the footnote states, citing an article from The Daily Beast. "It would be equally absurd to suggest that violated the Hatch Act."

 

[Vern]

I must have missed the bit where COS of Gore-Liberman offered up campaign money to make illegal proceedings happen.

The previous quote highlights that with its use of the "he was actively engaged with both the Gore-Lieberman campaign and legal proceedings contesting the election results,..."

That's a huge difference between the two's actions. Trump et al are alleged to have been conducting an illegal attempt to find 11 800 votes and gathering up and instructing fake electors also charged as co-conspirators in the overthrow plot.

 

[MyBelle]

I must have missed the bit where COS of Gore-Liberman offered up campaign money to make illegal proceedings happen.

The previous quote highlights that with its use of the "he was actively engaged with both the Gore-Lieberman campaign and legal proceedings contesting the election results,..."

That's a huge difference between the two's actions. Trump et al are alleged to have been conducting an illegal attempt to find 11 800 votes and gathering up and instructing fake electors also charged as co-conspirators in the overthrow plot.

What Trump attempted to do is not illegal. Gore & Bush also wanted recounts because of ballot irregularities. How their campaign money was spent was up to them.

JMO

Bush v. Gore | Summary, Decision, Significance, & Facts

Bush v. Gore, legal case in which the U.S. Supreme Court reversed a Florida Supreme Court’s recount order of the state’s presidential ballots in 2000. With the termination of the recount, Florida’s electoral votes were awarded to George W. Bush, giving him the electoral votes needed to be...

www.britannica.com

 

[BritsKate]

In his motion to dismiss, Meadows harps on the fact that he has not been charged with federal crimes, but that’s a nonsequitur. That there was no federal charge does not mean that federal law affirmatively authorized the conduct, and it certainly doesn’t mean that the conduct was necessary and proper to official duties.

Removal in the Georgia Prosecution: A Low Bar but Weak Arguments

Trump and Meadows have a shot at removing their case to federal court—not because their arguments are good, but because the bar is low.

www.lawfaremedia.org

 

[Inthedetails]

I must have missed the bit where COS of Gore-Liberman offered up campaign money to make illegal proceedings happen.

The previous quote highlights that with its use of the "he was actively engaged with both the Gore-Lieberman campaign and legal proceedings contesting the election results,..."

That's a huge difference between the two's actions. Trump et al are alleged to have been conducting an illegal attempt to find 11 800 votes and gathering up and instructing fake electors also charged as co-conspirators in the overthrow plot.

When Meadows offered campaign money to speed up signature verification, it was an offer to give money in a state as each state counts its own ballots. The whole argument looks messy to me. Guess we'll find out more on Monday.

jmo

 

[Lilibet]

I must have missed the bit where COS of Gore-Liberman offered up campaign money to make illegal proceedings happen.

The previous quote highlights that with its use of the "he was actively engaged with both the Gore-Lieberman campaign and legal proceedings contesting the election results,..."

That's a huge difference between the two's actions. Trump et al are alleged to have been conducting an illegal attempt to find 11 800 votes and gathering up and instructing fake electors also charged as co-conspirators in the overthrow plot.

You’re such a stickler for pesky details @Vern! Keep ‘em coming even if “they” don’t care. Most of us know the difference between legal and illegal, accepting the decision of the legal system vs doing an end run around it.
Misinformation repeated over and over again does not become true, whether it’s about covid or the 2020 election.
JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

You’re such a stickler for pesky details @ Vern! Keep ‘em coming even if “they” don’t care. Most of us know the difference between legal and illegal, accepting the decision of the legal system vs doing an end run around it.
Misinformation repeated over and over again does not become true, whether it’s about covid or the 2020 election.
JMO

Vern is indeed good with details, and I certainly appreciate that.

jmo

 

[BritsKate]

What Trump attempted to do is not illegal. Gore & Bush also wanted recounts because of ballot irregularities. How their campaign money was spent was up to them.

JMO

Bush v. Gore | Summary, Decision, Significance, & Facts

Bush v. Gore, legal case in which the U.S. Supreme Court reversed a Florida Supreme Court’s recount order of the state’s presidential ballots in 2000. With the termination of the recount, Florida’s electoral votes were awarded to George W. Bush, giving him the electoral votes needed to be...

www.britannica.com

But that's just not true - campaign finance regulations and all. Further, what Trump allegedly did IS illegal otherwise there would not, could not, be an indictment for those allegations. He's charged with violating multiple statutes which is the very definition of breaking the law.

Perfectly reasonable for you to believe Trump isn't guilty but imo unreasonable and actually quite false to say no crime has been committed when there's quite obviously probable cause to warrant an indictment which kinda means it's illegal.

It's been determined crimes have been committed through the grand jury process and now the trial will determine if Trump et al are guilty of the crimes they're charged with.

JMO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

You’re such a stickler for pesky details @ Vern! Keep ‘em coming even if “they” don’t care. Most of us know the difference between legal and illegal, accepting the decision of the legal system vs doing an end run around it.
Misinformation repeated over and over again does not become true, whether it’s about covid or the 2020 election.
JMO

Amen. I think they’re trying to convince themselves more than anything else. JMO

 

[Vern]

Facts matter (and apparently keep needing to be stated):

After 3 X recounts, including one by hand, Georgia results determined that Biden was the winner of the vote in 2020; those recounts showed no evidence of election fraud.

50+ lawsuits were tossed out, often by Trump appointed judges because 45 et al failed to produce any evidence of election fraud.

The Supreme Court of the United States has refused to hear all 2020 Election Fraud cases brought before it.

With all of the above LEGAL means exhausted, Trump et al then illegally attempted to find 11 800 votes in the state of Georgia knowing full well they didn't exist and by pulling together multiple slates of fake electorsin an act of conspiracy to have VPOTUS of the day, Pence, count those electoral votes instead of the legal and legitimate elctoral votes of numerous states in an illegal attempt to keep Trump in power despite the will of "We the People".

Facts Matter: On 13 Dec 2000, Gore graciously conceeded to Bush once his last legal means of the SCOTUS had rendered their decision. 5 weeks post election.

Facts Matter: Despite having long ago lost all legal means, Trump has yet to concede.

Facts Matter: There is zero evidence, nor has any ever been presented, of election fraud in the 2020 elections.

 

[Lilibet]

What Trump attempted to do is not illegal. Gore & Bush also wanted recounts because of ballot irregularities. How their campaign money was spent was up to them.

JMO

Bush v. Gore | Summary, Decision, Significance, & Facts

Bush v. Gore, legal case in which the U.S. Supreme Court reversed a Florida Supreme Court’s recount order of the state’s presidential ballots in 2000. With the termination of the recount, Florida’s electoral votes were awarded to George W. Bush, giving him the electoral votes needed to be...

www.britannica.com

From your link, Gore did what Trump could never and would never do…put the good of the country before his own ego.

With the termination of the recount process, Florida’s 25 electoral votes were awarded to Bush. Gore officially conceded on December 13 and stated in a televised address, “While I strongly disagree with the Court’s decision, I accept it.”
BBM
JMO

Bush v. Gore | Summary, Decision, Significance, & Facts

Bush v. Gore, legal case in which the U.S. Supreme Court reversed a Florida Supreme Court’s recount order of the state’s presidential ballots in 2000. With the termination of the recount, Florida’s electoral votes were awarded to George W. Bush, giving him the electoral votes needed to be...

www.britannica.com

 

[SouthAussie]

RSBM

Trump et al are alleged to have been conducting an illegal attempt to find 11 800 votes and gathering up and instructing fake electors also charged as co-conspirators in the overthrow plot.

Yes, so many legal experts have long said that it is illegal .... this article is dated 5 Jan 2021.


The phone call was a “flagrant federal criminal violation,” said Jessica Levinson, a professor at Loyola Law School in California, adding that it appeared that Trump was using threats to push Raffensperger to alter a legitimate vote count.

The president also suggested that Raffensperger could face consequences if he did not state publicly that there were thousands of shredded ballots, as the president seized on an unfounded election fraud allegation.

The legal experts said prosecutors could argue that Trump’s power as a sitting president, combined with the vague threats of prosecution, amounted to him making an unlawful demand of Raffensperger under the Georgia statute.

“He is exerting his power to browbeat the secretary of state into finding votes that were not cast,” Kreis [Georgia State University law professor Anthony Michael Kreis] said.

“It is illegal under both federal law and Georgia statutes to solicit the commission of election fraud, and it is hard to interpret the president’s threatening call demanding that election officials ‘find’ votes for him otherwise,” said Duke University School of Law professor Lisa Kern Griffin, a former federal prosecutor.

“Reaching out in a back-channel call to a secretary of state to attempt to have vote tallies changed outside of official channels, especially after courts have rejected post-election challenges, raises serious questions under federal and state law,” added Michael Morley, a Florida State University professor of election law.

Explainer: Did Trump break the law by pressuring a Georgia election official to 'find' votes?

President Donald Trump may have broken a U.S. federal law and a Georgia law against election tampering by pressuring the state's top election official to "find" enough votes to overturn his loss to President-elect Joe Biden in the state, according to some legal experts.

www.reuters.com

 

[Inthedetails]

From your link, Gore did what Trump could never and would never do…put the good of the country before his own ego.

With the termination of the recount process, Florida’s 25 electoral votes were awarded to Bush. Gore officially conceded on December 13 and stated in a televised address, “While I strongly disagree with the Court’s decision, I accept it.”
BBM
JMO

And then Gore quietly went away...because that was best for the country.

What makes America great is that we have a peaceful transition of power.

The peaceful transition is our treasure. And Trump spit all over it while his fans cheered.

jmo

 

[waldojabba]

But that's just not true - campaign finance regulations and all. Further, what Trump allegedly did IS illegal otherwise there would not, could not, be an indictment for those allegations. He's charged with violating multiple statutes which is the very definition of breaking the law.

Perfectly reasonable for you to believe Trump isn't guilty but imo unreasonable and actually quite false to say no crime has been committed when there's quite obviously probable cause to warrant an indictment which kinda means it's illegal.

It's been determined crimes have been committed through the grand jury process and now the trial will determine if Trump et al are guilty of the crimes they're charged with.

JMO

It’s the old double D. Deflect and Deny. Tedious imo.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

You’re such a stickler for pesky details @Vern! Keep ‘em coming even if “they” don’t care. Most of us know the difference between legal and illegal, accepting the decision of the legal system vs doing an end run around it.
Misinformation repeated over and over again does not become true, whether it’s about covid or the 2020 election.
JMO

Who is “they” that you refer to? Fellow posters here?

 

[Lilibet]

While we’re on the subject of Bush v Gore, I hope the mods will forgive me for telling a funny story about my Mom. In her later years she was as strong a Democrat as she had been a strong Republican while I was growing up. I know she thought Gore would have been best for the country and she could not stand Bush, to put it mildly.

She lived in independent living in a retirement community and once a year the administration checked to make sure residents still had all their faculties by asking a series of questions. Around 2002 when she was 90, she told me that one of the questions was “Who is the President?” She went blank! But she quickly recovered and proudly told me that she replied indignantly, “I think he is so awful that I have put his name out of my mind!”

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Who is “they” that you refer to? Fellow posters here?

Can’t speak for OP but my usage was for those who continue to claim an election was stolen with zero tangible evidence and dozens of court cases stating it was not (majority of these defendants)