GA - Jonah, 3, & Nicole Payne, 2, Warrenton, 23 April 2005

[Jeana (DP)]

People in a neighboring town, the town where this dad works, know that this website exists. There is intense interest in this case there as well as here in Louisiana where I am. I wasn't trying to say the mother reads here, I was more disagreeing with your statement that "it's just us." Because it's not, and word does get around. Hopefully, the word that gets around this time is to be extra careful.

You seem to be so angry with the mother. And I guess I don't understand that, because, at this time, it seems as though she tried to do everything she could.

Well we discuss a lot of things here that would upset the families of those missing/murdered. We don't claim to be a "family" support forum.

Moreover, I'm not angry with the mother as much as I am frustrated that people are so careless with their children. (NOT SPEAKING ABOUT THIS MOTHER IN PARTICULAR). However, I do have eyes and do see small children playing outside alone. Why is is alright to allow small children to play alone unsupervised? Besides being abduced, they could get run over by a car. They could be bitten by a dog. They could be beat up by larger kids. They could fall on a piece of glass. Two and three year olds CANNOT take care of themselves. That's why God gave them parents.

 

[ISPTRAX]

I would like to know how how freakin' far away that retention pond was. God knows it wasn't stationed right next to the house. If she just turned her back for a MINUTE to PEE... I find it hard to believe those children reached that pond in that amount of time.

 

[Timex]

I would like to know how how freakin' far away that retention pond was. God knows it wasn't stationed right next to the house. If she just turned her back for a MINUTE to PEE... I find it hard to believe those children reached that pond in that amount of time.

The last article I read said it was just behind their house, a short distance away. Didnt give specifics. Also said there were several other ponds in the immediate area.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

And for all we know, after they got out earlier, she could have scolded them and told them never to do that again..and locked the door...and thought that after a scolding they wouldn't do it again. My daughter stuck a key in an electrical outlet when she was 2....you think that would have learned her!! But no, she managed to take a lightbulb out of a lamp and stick her finger in more than once and get shocked, even though she had been told time and time again to stay away from electricity...kids DON'T always listen. What was I to do, never have another lamp in my house? I did make sure she never got hold of keys every again, but obviously she didn't listen to me about the dangers of electricity and didn't learn by pain! Toddlers aren't necessarily known for their ability to listen to adults and follow directions, especially if they are strong willed.

I can totally understand what you and others are writing.
Bottom line ... something very very sad happened here.
And from some of these posts it looks as though people are just suggesting that it's the kids' own fault they are dead. Well, I can't accept that.
I thank God that I suppose I was smart enough to not wander out and that my parents were there to catch me if I ever did. Otherwise I might not be here today to even debate this issue.

I can't blame the children here. Children can't live for themselves. They need their parents to be there for them even when they are indisposed.

I'm not trying to string up the mother and hang her by her toes, but I hope we can all learn from this how much kids need their parents. I don't have kids so I'm sure I come across as cold and uncaring toward's the mother. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be. But I can't help but think their lives could've been spared.

 

[kgeaux]

I would like to know how how freakin' far away that retention pond was. God knows it wasn't stationed right next to the house. If she just turned her back for a MINUTE to PEE... I find it hard to believe those children reached that pond in that amount of time.

I don't think they gave a distance. He said (the black officer,I'm sorry I didn't catch his name) that there was a road that ran behind the children's home, and that the retention pond was at the end of that little road. He added that the pond was fenced in, but admitted that there were places that children could get through. I'd like to know the distance too. And if the road is hilly or if it winds around. I mean, can you see the pond from the house? Or if the mother went out to look, could the kids have been out of sight because of a hill?

 

[Timex]

I dont say its the kids fault...I just dont see why it has to be anyone's fault. Why do we have to have someone to blame? Accidents happen.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I dont say its the kids fault...I just dont see why it has to be anyone's fault. Why do we have to have someone to blame? Accidents happen.

You're kidding, right?

 

[Timex]

You're kidding, right?

No, Im not kidding. Do you believe there is no such thing as an accident? Again, IF what we are hearing is true, then I simply cannot place blame on this mother. She locked the door and went to the bathroom...something we ALL have to do every day. Do we now say mothers are never to use the bathroom? Are we to sleep in shifts to make sure nothing can ever happen?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Before the bodies were found, Bankhead said that while authorities "are trying to concentrate our efforts on finding the kids, there are other aspects of the investigation that we're pursuing that I can't get into at this point."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/25/missing.toddlers/index.html

 

[Jeana (DP)]

No, Im not kidding. Do you believe there is no such thing as an accident? Again, IF what we are hearing is true, then I simply cannot place blame on this mother. She locked the door and went to the bathroom...something we ALL have to do every day. Do we now say mothers are never to use the bathroom? Are we to sleep in shifts to make sure nothing can ever happen?

Are you talking about this case specifically or just life in general because this post and your other one don't seem to agree with one another on that aspect?

 

[lady-eowyn]

I can totally understand what you and others are writing.
Bottom line ... something very very sad happened here.
And from some of these posts it looks as though people are just suggesting that it's the kids' own fault they are dead. Well, I can't accept that.
I thank God that I suppose I was smart enough to not wander out and that my parents were there to catch me if I ever did. Otherwise I might not be here today to even debate this issue.

I can't blame the children here. Children can't live for themselves. They need their parents to be there for them even when they are indisposed.

I'm not trying to string up the mother and hang her by her toes, but I hope we can all learn from this how much kids need their parents. I don't have kids so I'm sure I come across as cold and uncaring toward's the mother. I'm sorry. I don't mean to be. But I can't help but think their lives could've been spared.

Nope...I'd never place blame on the kids...kids are kids and do not understand the dangers of the world. And yes it is up to parents to watch over them and keep them safe. I just keep seeing pretty strong accusations thrown at a mother who is probably tearing herself down pretty badly right now. Someone even went as far as to call her "Susan Smith, right down to the bow in her hair" Judging the mother because she wore a bow in her hair? I've posted on internet forums for years and it still amazes me the judgemental nature of some toward those who are "different" from them. Tragedies happen everyday. Could many of them be prevented? Sure! Don't you think this mother will live with this for the rest of her life? "What if I hadn't went to the bathroom" "What if I had ran further, or faster looking for them" "What if I had brought them into the bathroom with me"

All this speculation about there being no way a child that age could have gotten that far in the time it took the mother to go to the bathroom is just speculation. We don't know what she had to do, or how long she was in there...the father said she had called from the bathroom several times and when she didn't hear the children she got up and went to look for them. Obviously she was trying to keep tabs on them by calling them from the bathroom...

 

[luthersmama]

I dont say its the kids fault...I just dont see why it has to be anyone's fault. Why do we have to have someone to blame? Accidents happen.

I'm with you, Timex. We have become a very finger-pointing society. My nephew once bit through an electrical cord. Who do you blame for that? He was about 3 or 4 at the time. My daughter's finger got crushed in a door when her sister closed it. How closely can you watch kids every minute of every day?

If these kids had permission to go out alone, or had a pattern of escaping, then maybe some blame can be laid at the mom's feet. But if this was the first day they had gone wandering, she couldn't have forseen everything that happened.

There is still a possibility, IMO, that it was not an accident.

 

[Timex]

Are you talking about this case specifically or just life in general because this post and your other one don't seem to agree with one another on that aspect?

why's that? She locked the doors...so how can I say she should be held responsible? I think Ive said the same thing from the start?

 

[Jeana (DP)]

why's that? She locked the doors...so how can I say she should be held responsible? I think Ive said the same thing from the start?

You said "accidents happen." I asked if you were talking about life in general or this case specifically.

As I said before, if this was the first day that she realized that the children were able to unlock the door and get out of the house alone, then yes, accidents happen. However, if she already KNEW from previous experience that they could unlock the door and get out of the house, then NO, its not an accident, its neligence.

 

[Florida]

We had an incident last summer here at my condo that none of us could understand. Guests, staying in one of the units, let their toddler daughter wander all over our property unattended. We are on a canal and have a pool. All of us were a nervous wreck and tried to keep an eye on her. Finally the Board told the family that they could not let her roam around alone. Much to our surprise, they still let her roam around after being warned of the dangers. The owners of the unit were called and told we could not allow them to stay here. People who do not live around water just don't understand what could happen. This family was negligent ?, dumb ?, careless? Thank God the child didn't have an accident. We don't know how she kept getting out on her own. She was a smart little tike. We didn't want the liability.

I would be interested to know just how far these toddlers were away from their home when the neighbor found them at 4 pm. If the doors were locked before they left that time according to the Mother, or, they wandered off from outside playing. I haven't been following this story so I don't know if these facts have been posted.

It appears to be a tragic accident that could have been prevented, in hindsight. Unfortunately we all have probably experienced hindsight incidences, but not with such a tragic outcome.

 

[Timex]

we will just have to agree to disagree. I believe in accidents. When we found our son could unlock the doors, we moved the locks up...he simply found a way around that.

People lock thier doors every night, yet one night forget to do so, a tragedy happens...are they to blame for the accidental leaving the door unlocked? Not in my mind.

Until we find a way to make human beings perfect, there will be accidents.

 

[TheShadow]

...and yes there are many that are simply unfortunate accidents. I researched child drownings for a safety project after just such a tragedy happened in my family (a neices's child). In 90% of the cases, the child was in one or both of the parents' care when the drowning occurs. And in some cases no amount of door locks would have prevented them from happening. In many cases the child was missing for no more than 5 minutes before the drowning was discovered. Children have drowned in toilets, washing machines, 5 gallon buckets, wheel barrows, wading pools, bathtubs, spas, koi ponds, you name it. It does no-one any good to slam the parents, they feel awful enough already. The guilt and blame they feel will likely destroy their marriage and probably scar them for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately there have been 3 such tragedies in my own extended family, 2 drownings and one toddler who actually choked on sand in his sandbox. Who could have foreseen that a toddler would put a fistful of sand in his own mouth??

You can wrap your child in packing peanuts and wash him down with antibacterial soap every 5 minutes, but you can't protect them from every possible scenario. The lesson is to learn from this sad event, and look for what precautions can be taken in your own life to reduce the likelihood of similar tragedies. If you have a pool or water feature in or near your yard, you need to place LAYERS OF PROTECTION between children and the hazard., even if you have no children of your own. I think we can stop rushing to judgement of this couple before any facts are in evidence.

 

[Florida]

Timex, how old was Mike when he was out there at 4 am planting flowers?I hate to say I found this humorous when I first read it. Did he say why he was doing this? Guess he wasn't scared of the dark!!

Did you find it humorous at the time? And then, upon thinking about what could have happened, might have happened, it lost its humor for you?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Timex, my oldest son did the same with locks when he was three. We moved the chain-lock up the doorframe and he pushed a chair up to reach it. My next door neighbors called to say that he was ringing their doorbell at 5 a.m.

I do hope this tragedy was purely accidental.

 

[YadaYada]

Both of these babies were found drowned in a pond near their home. :furious:

The police are still investigating.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/25/missing.toddlers/