GA - Jonah, 3, & Nicole Payne, 2, Warrenton, 23 April 2005

[LaurenD]

I soooo agree with you, Timex. Has it been forgotten that kids should be able to be kids?

 

[bulletgirl2002]

Nancy Grace....is reporting now

 

[richandfamous]

Nancy Grace....is reporting now

fox, cnn, ctv...where? thx

 

[Annie]

The father was on the phone with Nancy Grace and said they had bought a lock with a chain and were going to put it on that night. The mother was in the bathroom around 15 minutes and that is a lot longer than I had thought at first. The distance is around 200-300 yards down a path with a lot of brush but it leads directly to the gate.

 

[kimmy_q_sky]

fox, cnn, ctv...where? thx

headline news

 

[kahskye]

The father was on the phone with Nancy Grace and said they had bought a lock with a chain and were going to put it on that night. The mother was in the bathroom around 15 minutes and that is a lot longer than I had thought at first. The distance is around 200-300 yards down a path with a lot of brush but it leads directly to the gate.

Wow, 15 minutes is quite a long time to leave toddlers alone. At their age, too bad she didn't leave the bathroom door open to hear them. I don't want to be too hard on her, she's suffering enough. It's just, when it comes to our child's safety, we can never take our eyes off of our babies for that long. The children must have also been quite fast once they got outdoors. I teach preschoolers at a local museum and when I take them outdoors, they stop to touch everything and take forever to walk up a trail. It's just a shame someone didn't discover them before they found that pond. Heaven's definitely welcoming two beautiful angels tonight.

 

[lostfaith]

Just got done reading all of todays post, it took me 3 hours! My heart goes out to the family, this is just awful. I feel nothing but compassion for the family. Unless facts come out that those children were intentionally murdered, I will NOT condem another mother who from all reports so far was NOT abusive to her kids. Children are a handful, especially that close in age, and its true, they have to be watched all the time. But in the real world, mom's use the bathroom, they shower, and like someone else said, and I loved this one, sometimes you have to change a tampon! Kudo's to those of you that are perfect, the rest of us, I guess we should start surrendering our children.

And yes, you have the right to your opinion, now I have stated mine.

 

[mysteriew]

I think they need to pay close attention to this neighbor too. Neighbor is being "very quiet".

 

[mysteriew]

I too am reluctant to jump right on the parents. Accidents do happen sadly, and there are other people in the world. I prefer to sympathize with the parents, then if other evidence comes up I can change my mind. Not all parents deliberately hurt their children, though it seems that way at times.

 

[lostfaith]

This reminds me of a local story. I believe the child was 7 or 8ish, it was winter and he was in his backyard playing in the snow. He built a snowfort and it collapsed on him and he died. I always remembered this, and warned my own children about it. Also about another story I had read where some older children were playing in the leaves that were deposited in piles by the city, they were going to sweep them up later, but in the meantime, some children buried themselves in the leaves and a teenage driver, being a teenage driver, decided to plow through the leaves, killing the kids. I remembered that also and warned my children about playing in leaves when they were younger. Then when my oldest started driving, I told him the story again so that hopefully he would not drive through a pile of leaves. The point is, you hear stories that stick in your mind, and you try to protect your kids from that happening to them. But parents cant think of every last danger, even though we try our hardest. We do the best we can. I am sure that the mother with the snowfort incident will never be able to look at snow again without feeling pain and misplaced guilt. Should we constantly remind her that she did not do enough to protect her child, or should learn from it and be compassionate toward her?

 

[IdahoMom]

Accidents happen. God bless these poor babies.

 

[Vorpal]

The father was on the phone with Nancy Grace and said they had bought a lock with a chain and were going to put it on that night. The mother was in the bathroom around 15 minutes and that is a lot longer than I had thought at first. The distance is around 200-300 yards down a path with a lot of brush but it leads directly to the gate.

From what the father said, the little girl was the leader of the two, had opened both the front door and the gate before, with her brother following right behind her. He also said the little boy was on the clumsy side, tended to trip over things especially while running. Most likely scenario is that once out of the yard they ran in the direction of the pond; at the pond one of the children slipped and fell into the water. The second child jumped into the water after the first and both drowned.

If the autopsies confirm that both children simply drowned with no evidence of strangulation, sexual abuse, etc., the big question is how they got through the chain link fence surrounding the pond. If there was a gate, was it left open? And if so, why?

The other big question is why the mother initially told LE she was in the bathroom for 5 minutes but later said it was 15 minutes. Why did she change her story?

Whatever is the real truth of what happened, this is a terrible tragedy for the family and our thoughts and prayers are with them tonight.


Vorpal

 

[Vorpal]

You said "accidents happen." I asked if you were talking about life in general or this case specifically.

As I said before, if this was the first day that she realized that the children were able to unlock the door and get out of the house alone, then yes, accidents happen. However, if she already KNEW from previous experience that they could unlock the door and get out of the house, then NO, its not an accident, its neligence.

You're right on, Jeana. The father said on Nancy Grace's show tonight that the little girl had figured out how to open both the front door and the front gate and had run out of the house twice before in the last few days with her brother runnning right behind her. Both times neighbors phoned the parents, who brought the children back home. So yes - since the mother knew they'd gotten out before, she was negligent in this tragedy, IMO.

Vorpal

 

[txsvicki]

I don't know what exactly happened to those kids, but I do know, from what the dad said on Nancy that they knew what kind of child that youngest one was and how she was trying to get out of the yard. I had one just like that, and they have to be watched every second and there is no way that a parent alone with the kids could go to the bathroom for 15 minutes. No way. They can't be left alone outside at all either. I find it odd, if true, that the neighbor watched the children milling around outside their yard area for thirty minutes before taking them home. The kids' Dad did say that he has a lot of unanswered questions, like how come the gate in the front yard was closed. I'd be willing to bet that the kids were allowed to play alone in the fenced in front yard and were not always checked on just real frequently.

 

[Julie]

If the mother ran out right after she 'heard something' she would've seen the kids if they had ran out alone. There is no way they could've gotten out of the yard that fast. jmho.

 

[kgeaux]

If the mother ran out right after she 'heard something' she would've seen the kids if they had ran out alone. There is no way they could've gotten out of the yard that fast. jmho.

I've thought about this,too. My husband suggested that the sound she heard may not have been the kids leaving.....if they left the door open, she could have heard a car pass by, a neighbor's door slam, any noise from the environment.

He also reminded me of an incident that occured when my oldest child was 4. We'd gone down to Avery Island to visit the large garden/bird refuge there. Ivan was walking right next to me, I had my 2nd son on a leash (sorry to those who hate kiddie leashes!), my third son was in a backpack on my husband's back, and I was big and pregnant with my 4th. My husband was filming us walking ahead of him, and I stooped down to point at a "CAUTION: ALLIGATORS" sign. At that point, Ivan took two more steps and went right into the algae covered pond. I jumped in and got him right out, but Ivan was just so confused.....the algae was so thick and so green that he'd thought it was a solid surface like grass. He could not believe he'd gone into the water. These little ones may have thought the same thing.

 

[lisag]

My heart breaks for these babies.
It's another sad reminder that little ones have to be in your sight at all times.
When you have little onese that are "known" to be little explorers, you can not let them alone for one minute. My 2 year old is one of those, and I am so afraid of what he could get into, that I even bring him into the bathroom with me.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

He said Nicole figured out how to unlock the front door and gate and left with Jonah at around 4 p.m. Saturday. A neighbor returned the children about 30 minutes later.

This is odd ... brings up some questions:


Is this the same neighbor that said that she saw them outside at 4 P.M.?

Did the Mom notice that they were gone?

Was Mom looking for them during this 30 minutes, calling their names, making phone calls?

How did they know that it was 30 minutes later unless someone knows what
time the kids left and what time they were returned?

If someone knew what time they left, why did it take 30 minutes for them to be returned ... (was someone testing the Mom to see if she'd notice that they weren't there)?


I was driving home last night, and couldn't stop thinking about these kids. All of a sudden, it struck me how horrific it would be to not only be searching for your two babies for two days, but receiving the news that not one, but both, were found dead, and so close to home. Dead because of their normal curiosity. I couldn't help but think of how excited they must have been to make the escape ... they probably felt like they were on an adventure! I am so sad for these kids, doing what kids do and losing their lives over it. God bless these angels, and the parents for the extreme sorrow that they must be suffering right now. Regret & what-if's are a horrible form of torture. May they find peace eventually.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I gotta smile at the thought of the younger of the two being the "ring leader"....no disrespect meant it just caught my eye and had me thinking back to childhood.

She was very curious ... I've imagined her running ahead of her brother toward that pond. I don't care what the neighbor says about the two of them being sick of each other, if she fell in, her brother probably tried to help her.

So so sad. Sweet little angels ...

 

[Camper]

Also, Mom says she heard the noise, came right out and front door was wide open IF the 2 yr old opened the front door as we are to believe, and she left it open, how complicated was the gate opening ?, and why did the 2 year old not leave it open as well? I think we all have been thinking that, but I just put words to it.

What was the distance from that gate/front yard to the 'route' they might have taken - that would have been 'out of sight' of the mother?

Most enlightening post on the algae kgeaux.

My 2 year old grandson just left last week to go east after the family visit here. Several of us went to the Denver Zoo. They carried him much of the distance through the zoo. WHEN they put him on the ground, he ran like a gazelle, in the opposite direction than the one we were going, he was a handful!!! He quickly became out of sight to those of us who were NOT chasing him, lots of people at the zoo, and walks were heavy with people traffic. NONE of my own children EVER ran that fast, he stood out like a sore thumb with the other tiny obedient children we saw that day.

As heartfelt sad as the daddy has appeared to me, I think he will put one and one together and have more questions than any of us could come up with. He has already wondered aloud how come the gate was open.

I am trying to figure out in my head, what the autopsy may reveal ? ? Current abuse or injuries, what else?

Sad, sad day!!! I certainly hope that there is a heaven for them. God bless their innocence.



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